Question about TSO Parallel Guide System: Right Hand versus "Both Hands" Kit

[savsuds]

I would admit the desire to purchase the TPG would increase if a 30 inch R/L only option was available, doubly so if paired with (2) TPG guide rail adapters. I mostly break down 60x60 sheets. I rip a straight edge and then rip them into 30x60 halves with parallel guides (I am not 100% satisfied with my current parallel guides).

Not having to attach rail sections together is a bonus over the Woodpecker offering. I believe extra connections lead to inaccurate cuts and wasted time assembling them.

I also love my Parf MFT top for square cross cuts, and thusly don't need a GRS16/PE. I admit they are a quality product when I got to hold and see them used.

I vote for a 30 inch option.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I would admit the desire to purchase the TPG would increase if a 30 inch R/L only option was available, doubly so if paired with (2) TPG guide rail adapters. I mostly break down 60x60 sheets. I rip a straight edge and then rip them into 30x60 halves with parallel guides (I am not 100% satisfied with my current parallel guides).

Not having to attach rail sections together is a bonus over the Woodpecker offering. I believe extra connections lead to inaccurate cuts and wasted time assembling them.

I also love my Parf MFT top for square cross cuts, and thusly don't need a GRS16/PE. I admit they are a quality product when I got to hold and see them used.

I vote for a 30 inch option.

I probably use the 30" most often but also use the 20" and 50" quite a bit. A few times I wish they could be connected together when I had more than 2 or 3 boards that needed to be cut off at over 50" (like tall cabinet FF stiles).

What I would like is more economical flip-stops so I could calibrate them with each arm and just leave them on.

Mike

 

[Rick Herrick]

What I would like is more economical flip-stops so I could calibrate them with each arm and just leave them on.

Mike

I pretty much use the 30s only but I do wish the flip stops weren't as expensive as they are. I bought the full TPG-50 package and I really wanted an extra set of stops.  Buying 2 more ($100) was over 25% of the entire TPG-50 package price.  That spoiled the fun a little for me.

 

[knuckles]

I have the GRS16-PE and RH 20" & 30" rail set.  It seems there should be a way to extend/join the 20" or 30" with the other rail to accommodate a 50" rail.  I've done it before, but you lose the area where the connectors are for the stop(s).  I think this would be a better solution than having three rails. 

Hopefully there will be a sale soon.. I'm looking at the LH rails and guide rail adapter.

 

[Cochese]

I think even in the Festool world it is hard to make a sale on an accessory kit that rivals the purchase cost of the tool itself, which is what the dual squares, and dual guides does. I mentioned to them that they should investigate putting together a kit of the rail attachments, 50" guides, and stops for around $200. If they can't meet this, then sub out the 50" for 30". Right now for the TSO system there is really only one entry point, the initial square. Everything builds on that. Make a second entry point at a price that rivals the other offerings out there, you open yourself up to more people putting hands on your product and expanding their attach rate.

For the two squares, and full parallel system you're looking at well over $600. $500 if you eschew one square. Quality products for sure, but that is the elephant in the room.

 

[DynaGlide]

I have the full kit. .two guide rail squares, the adapter accessory, all of the tracks. Some of it bought, some of it provided to me by Hans for evaluation. I just used it exclusively to break down 4x8 sheets to finished cabinet parts. Here's what worked best for me. Two 30" tracks, 1 rail square, 1 adapter for ripping 8' lengths. Only 1 arm is necessary with the guide rail square for 24" crosscuts. The 50" tracks are long and add unnecessary weight. On the two cross cuts that called for a using the 50" arms I was in the middle of setting them up when I bailed and went to a pencil mark and rail square, no guides. If I were batching out long cross cuts I'd probably put more effort into setting it up. For a parallel rip they'd probably be more useful.

I don't understand the comments about the $600-700 price. No one is forcing the entire kit on you. Buy what you need and nothing that you don't. As has been stated the GRS-16 itself is invaluable. So no money lost there. At that point the 30" kit is an easy choice when compared with what else is out there.

[2cents]

Matt

 

[TSO_Products]

Guys – all of you – thank you so much for your questions, comments, suggestions and even the criticism!
We learn from all of this.

As many of you know, we are passionate about continuous improvement, especially based on Customer/ User feedback.

Thanks to your  collective feedback we will introduce  a TSO TPG-30 Set version, as mentioned earlier.

While it seems simple from the customer perspective to just omit 20 inch T-tracks and call it good, this change impacts the very first production step after the raw 20+ foot long comes out of heat treating – months before we have a cut, deburred, CNC-machined, anodized and engraved part to kit available for sale.

Our product packaging has 4-color litho labels factory applied in quantity – and inventoried by us  in quantity. Neither the exterior box nor the interior dividers will work for the new version. And on-and-on. We had hoped for a September launch. We’ll see what is possible and use the TSO INSIDER to keep you posted.

Hans

 

[tallgrass]

Any Idea on when inventory will be back up? Tried ordering and you are out of stock. Which is great by the way. Glad you have the demand. Kind of. Keep up the good work.

 

[Josh2]

One follow up question on using one guide only to break down sheet goods: With one guide, I have to make a rip first to take care of the factory edge, then do a crosscut to get side that is perfect 90, and then can do my parallel rip. In short, it's rip, cross, rip to get a parallel cut. With two guides, however, I can skip the crosscut at this point because the two guide give me the same length on both ends. So it's just rip and rip like in this video:

All correct?

 

[Cypren]

While I don't disagree that the TPG system is quite expensive, rivaling the cost of the track saw itself, I also have to say that there are few things in my workshop that I think have justified their price so well. The speed, accuracy and repeatability that it gives you when cutting any kind of panel surface is just incredible.

Even my father -- a longtime carpenter and avowed skeptic of all my "expensive green toys" -- was floored by how well the TPGs worked when he came by to help me with a project a few months ago and it left him rethinking investing into the system himself.

 

[Rick Herrick]

One follow up question on using one guide only to break down sheet goods: With one guide, I have to make a rip first to take care of the factory edge, then do a crosscut to get side that is perfect 90, and then can do my parallel rip. In short, it's rip, cross, rip to get a parallel cut. With two guides, however, I can skip the crosscut at this point because the two guide give me the same length on both ends. So it's just rip and rip like in this video:

All correct?

This is a good video by Eric, I have watched it a number of times.  Not sure if I am understanding you because you still need (or should) to do a crosscut either with 1 or 2 guides in place.  The 4' end of the sheet is still the factory edge and you should square it up to one of your already ripped long edges.

 

[Josh2]

Yes, of course. I need the crosscut. The question is when and that matters for changing blades, changing the orientation of the rail etc etc. So let me try to say it more clearly:

- With two guides (Rip, Rip, crosscut, crosscut): Rip for factory edge, parallel rip using guides, crosscut for factory edge, crosscut(s) for final piece(s) (That is what Eric does in the video)
- With one guide (Rip, crosscut, rip, crosscut): Rip for factory edge, crosscut for factory edge and 90, parallel rip using guides and square, crosscut(s) for final piece

Is it correct to say that one guide requires the second process because I only reference of one side and not both? Two guides make it possible to do all the ripping first because I reference of both sides.

One follow up question on using one guide only to break down sheet goods: With one guide, I have to make a rip first to take care of the factory edge, then do a crosscut to get side that is perfect 90, and then can do my parallel rip. In short, it's rip, cross, rip to get a parallel cut. With two guides, however, I can skip the crosscut at this point because the two guide give me the same length on both ends. So it's just rip and rip like in this video:

All correct?

This is a good video by Eric, I have watched it a number of times.  Not sure if I am understanding you because you still need (or should) to do a crosscut either with 1 or 2 guides in place.  The 4' end of the sheet is still the factory edge and you should square it up to one of your already ripped long edges.

 

[m8]

While I don't disagree that the TPG system is quite expensive, rivaling the cost of the track saw itself, I also have to say that there are few things in my workshop that I think have justified their price so well. The speed, accuracy and repeatability that it gives you when cutting any kind of panel surface is just incredible.

Even my father -- a longtime carpenter and avowed skeptic of all my "expensive green toys" -- was floored by how well the TPGs worked when he came by to help me with a project a few months ago and it left him rethinking investing into the system himself.

The quote above is why I have not been able to convince myself that TSO PGS is too expensive.  I decided at the end of last month to go ahead and pull the trigger and go all in but I hesitated too long when I received the e-mail notifying me that it was back in stock.

 

[TSO_Products]

One follow up question on using one guide only to break down sheet goods: With one guide, I have to make a rip first to take care of the factory edge, then do a crosscut to get side that is perfect 90, and then can do my parallel rip. In short, it's rip, cross, rip to get a parallel cut. With two guides, however, I can skip the crosscut at this point because the two guide give me the same length on both ends. So it's just rip and rip like in this video:

All correct?

[member=72953]Josh2[/member] - you're abolutely correct. No matter what else you plan to do with a sheet of material: first make on straight edge - replacing the factory edge  however "good" it looks.
Then reference off that absoutley straight edge - ideally with a GRS-16 or GRS-16 PE on your guide rail to  get a straight and squared edge of the first straightlined edge.

the next cut(s) can be made parallel with the same guide rail and GRS-16 simply by adding (1)TPG T-track and FlipStop.

Hans

 

[Mike Goetzke]

One follow up question on using one guide only to break down sheet goods: With one guide, I have to make a rip first to take care of the factory edge, then do a crosscut to get side that is perfect 90, and then can do my parallel rip. In short, it's rip, cross, rip to get a parallel cut. With two guides, however, I can skip the crosscut at this point because the two guide give me the same length on both ends. So it's just rip and rip like in this video:

All correct?

Now why don't I see this video link?

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I went "all-out" on this system when it first came out and still couldn't be happier.

I'm an active hobbyist and do break down sheet good but have also used this system exclusively for dimensional lumber and hardwood crosscuts that one would generally do on a miter saw. I'm surprised others haven't commented on this as often as sheet goods application. Maybe because working out of my garage/shop it takes more time to set up my miter saw on it's mobile base than to take out my track saw and TSO components.

Mike

(Sheet good question - do the pros find they need to rip a reference surface? All the years I've been using sheet goods I have found the long edges to be perfectly straight but many times the crosscut not square.)

 

[tjbnwi]

@MikeGoetzke, I find on YT videos if you use the copy function on the YT video it will not post here. If I copy and past the address bar it does work here.

We straight line every factory edge. The sheets I purchase come 1/2" oversized.

[member=72953]Josh2[/member], your process is correct. That is one of the big advantages to the two arm setup. By doing all the rips first, you can square a short edge to either long edge, use a single arm PG set up on a square to process all of the cross cuts.

Tom

 

[Josh2]

Mike: Here is the link for the video:

Hans/TSO and Tom: Thanks! My question was actually different. Of course, I need a straight edge. The question is about another difference between one hand PGS and both hand TPG. Tom just confirmed my understanding that with one hand PGS, I need two straight edges with 90 degree (one rift one, one cross cut). With both hands, I just need a straight edge rift and can worry about the straight edge crosscut later because I reference of both sides.

So here is my summary of the advantages of both hand TPG based on the answers here. Maybe it's helpful for others:
1. Easier and faster to rip full panels. But it is possible to rip 96" with a single arm.
2. Better support for thin stock. TSO still wants to post a video on that, I think.
3. Different process for breaking down sheet goods: Two arms make it possible to do all the rips first and crosscut later. One arm requires a straight and square rip and crosscut before doing parallel rips. The linked video above is a great illustration of the process with two arms.

 

[MikeGE]

Now why don't I see this video link?

I can't see it either because Josh didn't copy the correct link.  The short version that starts with "youtu.be" won't work, it must the full URL.

Here is the video: