Question: How many of us use non-Festool blades?

Seems to me there was plenty more to say - whats the point of having an open forum if you close threads because your feelings are getting hurt.  The thread would have naturally petered out or it would have continued - thereby proving there was more to say.

I guess I think different than most here - I wouldn't expect ANYTHING a kitchen sink cut out could hand to a jigsaw should kill it.  Nails, screws, etc.

I've had a few Bosch saws as well as A festool Trion (currently a Bosch 1590 user), I've thought of each of those tools as lifetime tools - they would be expected to last me my lifetime in the limited use I give jigsaws. 

I've got my own stack of systainer-ed tools reaching to ceiling, so I see the benefit of the good stuff, but with the stratospheric pricing, my expectations go wayyyyyy up. 

And for those that can't imagine how you could come near a screw whilst cutting out a sink opening, they must not do much kitchen work - easily could happen.

JT
 
Julian Tracy said:
Seems to me there was plenty more to say - whats the point of having an open forum if you close threads because your feelings are getting hurt.  The thread would have naturally petered out or it would have continued - thereby proving there was more to say.

I guess I think different than most here - I wouldn't expect ANYTHING a kitchen sink cut out could hand to a jigsaw should kill it.  Nails, screws, etc.

I've had a few Bosch saws as well as A festool Trion (currently a Bosch 1590 user), I've thought of each of those tools as lifetime tools - they would be expected to last me my lifetime in the limited use I give jigsaws. 

I've got my own stack of systainer-ed tools reaching to ceiling, so I see the benefit of the good stuff, but with the stratospheric pricing, my expectations go wayyyyyy up. 

And for those that can't imagine how you could come near a screw whilst cutting out a sink opening, they must not do much kitchen work - easily could happen.

JT

Yup, looks like the new forum administrator is getting a baptism by fire and probably got a bit of an itchy trigger finger on the lock thread button!

I bet Festool and the "he who shall not be named" employee on the end of the phone wish they handled this situation a bit differently now...

Festool have to take the rough with the smooth and forums, whilst providing a podium for complaints, generate a lot of business.  You only have to look at the 99% gushing praise from the members here encouraging and promoting Festool sales to others all round the world.  Like I said in the other thread, this incident is a lesson that the actual cost (not the $355 "retail" cost, but their actual costs) to Festool of repairing this machine will now have cost them that amount untold times over.
 
RLJ-Atl said:
So, exactly how did using a non-Festool jigsaw blade cause the damage?

It didn't, but with so much vitriol, an open discussion about it can't take place.

Has anyone bothered to even notice that the original poster has never returned. All of this discussion in two separate threads is based on the few lines of text from his first two postings. Information is getting bandied about as fact that was never part of the original discussion.

It is a witch hunt, and discussing it is pointless when no one can listen while they are screaming.
 
RLJ-Atl said:
All of these questions are legitimate in light of what we have been told.  These tools are expensive and they go up in price every year.  We should know exactly what the rules are before plunking down our money.

    The questions are legitimate, but I don't think a more exact answer will be forthcoming.  My personal opinion is that the exact rules are as written in the warranty to be interpreted as anyone reading it sees fit. I seriously doubt that Festool, or any other company, is going to start posting or writing into the warranty anything more specific.

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Julian Tracy said:
Seems to me there was plenty more to say - whats the point of having an open forum if you close threads because your feelings are getting hurt.  The thread would have naturally petered out or it would have continued - thereby proving there was more to say.

JT

  I don't know, what I see is the same views , questions, and points being stated over and over again when it is pretty obvious that no additional info or input will be coming from Festool.

    Closing threads because of hurt feelings ????????????????  I don't even get where that is coming from.

    Threads like this almost never peter out on their own. They just keep going on, and on. Tearing up a forum as they go. Creating animosity between members and stifling general participation on the forum. We try not to have that happening here on FOG unlike so many other forums. It is very off putting to people wanting to participate.

    Keep it civil and discuss as much as you wish.  But ........  [dead horse]  [dead horse]  [dead horse]  [dead horse]

Seth

Moderator and Member
 
Cochese said:
All that needs to be said is a confirmation that use of third-party accessories or consumables, in and of itself, will not void your warranty - in-line with existing US consumer law and probably matching in other locales - is all that is needed. It's been said otherwise for existing topics, it just needs to be said again to quell the pitchforks and torches crowd.

That's the exact wrong tract to take. The topic has blown up because of a lack of information and clarity. Threads here can be opened and closed all day long, but the discussion and doubt would not end. There's too many other forums, too much word of mouth for a company, not just this one, to have a rumor or misunderstanding snowball.

People are already on edge because of how they view the latest few price increases. A perceived crack in the historical service aspect would be a mistake to allow to widen. Address the issue succinctly, without bring specific customers or scenarios into play. Simple, job done.

    So in the meantime?

    Don't know about anyone else but I am going to go enjoy using my tools in between checking in on FOG.

Seth
 
Rick Christopherson said:
RLJ-Atl said:
So, exactly how did using a non-Festool jigsaw blade cause the damage?

It didn't, but with so much vitriol, an open discussion about it can't take place.

Has anyone bothered to even notice that the original poster has never returned. All of this discussion in two separate threads is based on the few lines of text from his first two postings. Information is getting bandied about as fact that was never part of the original discussion.

It is a witch hunt, and discussing it is pointless when no one can listen while they are screaming.

If the jigsaw blade did not cause the damage to the saw, why then did Festool quote that particular part of the warranty on which to base its decline to fix under warranty?
 
Cochese said:
All that needs to be said is a confirmation that use of third-party accessories or consumables, in and of itself, will not void your warranty - in-line with existing US consumer law and probably matching in other locales - is all that is needed. It's been said otherwise for existing topics, it just needs to be said again to quell the pitchforks and torches crowd.

  I don't know, what I see is the same views , questions, and points being stated over and over again when it is pretty obvious that no additional info or input will be coming from Festool.

Seth

Moderator and Member

That's the exact wrong tract to take. The topic has blown up because of a lack of information and clarity. Threads here can be opened and closed all day long, but the discussion and doubt would not end. There's too many other forums, too much word of mouth for a company, not just this one, to have a rumor or misunderstanding snowball.

People are already on edge because of how they view the latest few price increases. A perceived crack in the historical service aspect would be a mistake to allow to widen. Address the issue succinctly, without bring specific customers or scenarios into play. Simple, job done.

Exactly. 
 
Alright then.  How about discussing the drivetrain of that jigsaw specifically and explain it's construction and how in the heck hitting an obstruction while cutting could blow it up?  And how using a Bosch blade instead of a Festool blade could have had ANY impact on the cause or extent of damage? 

Not like he used a B&D blade or a home made blade - Bosch blades are, in general, equivalent quality, Swiss made blades.

So use this opportunity to get a bit mechanical as to it's strengths, weaknesses and durability limitations.

I can't imagine my Bosch jigsaw's drivetrain ever blowing up in the course of normal jigsaw use, and thought the same of my previous Trion saw.

Is there a shear pin of sorts or not?  And why in this scenario would a shear pin have not saved the drivetrain from catastrophic damage?

Enlighten us, powers that be....  Must be over a 100 people questioning any purchase of a Festool jigsaw due to this thread, why not use this opportunity to clarify and alleviate these new concerns?

JT
 
Julian Tracy said:
Alright then.  How about discussing the drivetrain of that jigsaw specifically and explain it's construction and how in the heck hitting an obstruction while cutting could blow it up?  And how using a Bosch blade instead of a Festool blade could have had ANY impact on the cause or extent of damage? 

Not like he used a B&D blade or a home made blade - Bosch blades are, in general, equivalent quality, Swiss made blades.

So use this opportunity to get a bit mechanical as to it's strengths, weaknesses and durability limitations.

I can't imagine my Bosch jigsaw's drivetrain ever blowing up in the course of normal jigsaw use, and thought the same of my previous Trion saw.

Is there a shear pin of sorts or not?  And why in this scenario would a shear pin have not saved the drivetrain from catastrophic damage?

Enlighten us, powers that be....  Must be over a 100 people questioning any purchase of a Festool jigsaw due to this thread, why not use this opportunity to clarify and alleviate these new concerns?

JT

I don't think we know what brand of blade it was.  Otherwise, those are more good questions.
 
In a recently locked thread grbmds raised a question which received no reply from Festool representatives.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/festool-will-not-cover-repair-of-jigsaw-at-1year-into-a-3-year-warrenty/msg388483/#msg388483

"Will the Festool warranty be voided on a Festool router if you do not use a Festool router bit?
What about the Domino?  There are after market bits available for the Domino also?
I think it's important to know what voids the warranty since we don't know if the tool was allegedly being used in a way that Festool doesn't condone."

I am very curious to the response of this question.
 
Julian Tracy said:
Alright then.  How about discussing the drivetrain of that jigsaw specifically and explain it's construction and how in the heck hitting an obstruction while cutting could blow it up?  And how using a Bosch blade instead of a Festool blade could have had ANY impact on the cause or extent of damage? 

I would love to, but I can tell by what you have written that you have no interest in listening. Not in this current environment.

Julian Tracy said:
Is there a shear pin of sorts or not?  And why in this scenario would a shear pin have not saved the drivetrain from catastrophic damage?

Here is a clear sign that people in this thread, not just you, have no interest in listening. Nowhere was it ever discussed that there was any sort of shear pin, yet suddenly it is getting discussed and questioned by several people why the shear pin didn't let go.
 
I can't imagine that any company designs a hand tool to have a weak point?  I know I wouldn't design something to fail.  I just don't like the practice.  There is a difference in that "pin" will fail first VS that "pin" was designed to fail.

Now maybe on a safety issue??  Now before you jump down my throat, I know there are lots of items with shear pins and such.  I can't think of any on my tools however.  I don't think we even know what exactly happend to the JS in question.  I don't think I care really.  It's about the reason for the failed warranty coverage and how to CMA so that I don't void any warranty on my festools.

 
Rick Christopherson said:
I know that. That's why I know people aren't listening.

Pin or shear pin, it's still a pin. Pins breaking shouldn't cost $355 to repair, unless there is a design fault somewhere in the tool.

Let's sum this event up:

The OP is an unknown quantity.

The Festool retailers, employees, moderators and heavily invested customers are of course going to leap to the defence of Festool because they have investment either in making profit through sales; or have parted with a lot of money to buy the tools and want to feel good about that.

On the other end of the scale you've got those who don't like Festool and will take advantage of this event to badmouth the company/tools.

Somewhere in the middle is where the truth lies, (I consider myself to be in this category). There are people who aren't hardcore fans of Festool, but on a tool-by-tool basis evaluate the options and will buy Festool if it makes sense and buy another brand if Festool doesn't make sense. We're neither fanboys nor haters. Amongst this group of people lies a core of those disappointed with the response from Festool about the cause of the failure as well as the nonsensical cost of $355 to repair a $350 tool.

So people are prepared to listen, but as yet what's been stated doesn't make sense.
 
Regardless of any distractions in this thread or the other thread, here's what is generating all the concern:

Re: Festool will not cover repair of jigsaw at 1year into a 3 year warrenty

I'll quote the response from Brent:

I spoke with the OP this afternoon to confirm with him all of the information. He was using a non Festool wood blade to cut through the wood top and cut into a screw that was attaching the cabinets together.
Our warranty states "This warranty is void if the tool is not used, operated, repaired and maintained in accordance with the tool's instruction manual." In the manual it states " Festool does not condone nor support the use of any non-Festool engineered, designed, and manufactured accessories or consumables with Festool products.
We discussed his options for repair of the tool which he declined.

Brent

Given this statement from a Festool employee, it's fair for any Festool owner to ask this simple question:

If a Festool owner uses his (under warranty) jigsaw with a non-Festool blade in what most people accept as normal usage and the jigsaw suffers damage, will Festool honor the warranty terms or void their warranty?

Followup question:
Will the answer to the above question apply to other Festool tools?

That's it...everything else is not relevant.
 
Regardless of how this discussion is going, I think the silence from Festool on this thread is deafeningly loud!

It would be very helpful to make a cogent statement regarding this issue that may put it to bed.....at least until a NEW thread starts! [doh]

Frank

P.S.  On Helicopters, we do have the equivalent of a breakaway, or shear pin. If the drive train suddenly begins to seize, there is a shear mechanism on the drive shaft that allows for a separation of the rotor system from the drive train using the centrifugal force of the rotating blades to complete the shear, and allows the rotor blades to continue freely turning. This freewheeling system allows for autorotational capability in the event of a drive train seizure. Basically...It allows us to LIVE! [eek]
 
Gentlemen, I know that many of you have an interest in the questions here as do I as an owner and user.  There is a ton of speculation going here and I can see the prospect of this thread spiraling.

So here is the situation:  Neither Seth nor I can offer up the answers you are looking to get.  There are only two Festool individuals who can reply here and both are unavailable today due to travel and are not likely to be active much over the next couple of days.  We have sent them notice about this thread and I am sure that they will visit as soon as they can.

So, rather than let this thread escalate and speculation run rampant, I am going to TEMPORARILY lock this thread until an appropriate person can respond.  Once they are able to post here then the thread will be unlocked.

I know that there will be some who will shout "censorship" but that is not my intent.  I want to hear some answers just as much as you do but I suspect that it isn't going to be coming immediately - not because of issue avoidance but rather due to other work commitments.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Peter Halle - Moderator

PS:  If another thread is started up regarding the same thing then that / those threads will be locked or deleted.  If there isn't anyone available to respond to a thread there isn't going to be a response in another similar thread about the same issue / question.
 
I apologize for the delayed response on this thread. I have been traveling today and will be working a trade show the next two days, so any further responses will be delayed as well.

Now, regarding some of your concerns about the service all inclusive warranty.
Festool branded consumables are designed to maximize the tool's performance and longevity. Many other brands have entered this space with differing standards of quality, hence the legalize in the warranty. We look at these claims on a case by case basis and in the vast majority of cases, as long as the claim is reasonable, Festool has honored the warranty regardless.

The best way to be sure though is to use the consumables made by Festool since that is what these tools are tested on continuously and guaranteed for service.

This should put all the questions and speculation regarding our warranty to rest.
Thank you for your patience.

Brent.
 
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