Questions about shelving tracks in drywall

[ear3]

Spec-ing a shelving job for a friend that's going to occupy about a 4.5 ft wide by 11 foot tall space on a wall made of drywall.  The 12" shelves are going to be filled with large, heavy art books, so I need to come up with something that will be secure enough to accommodate that load.

I don't think he wants a full, wooden built-in, so instead I'm thinking that the double-slotted wall tracks/standards should do the trick -- 4 of the 8 ft. long vertical tracks spaced more or less 16" apart.  Something like this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-shelving-brackets/=z4bnyq

So three questions:

1. In terms of maximizing holding power, is it better to use a heavy duty hollow wall anchor -- like a toggle bolt -- or instead try to anchor the track on the metal studs?

2. And are toggle bolts the strongest drywall anchor, or is there something even stronger?

3. Any recommended source for the tracks and brackets?  The ones on McMasterCarr look decent enough -- plus they come in 8 ft. lengths which is basically the minimum I can do for these 11 foot walls, as my friend wants to run the shelves as close to the floor as possible.  But maybe you know of a supplier that offers tracks in 9 or 10 foot lengths?

Thanks for any advice.   

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

Spec-ing a shelving job for a friend that's going to occupy about a 4.5 ft wide by 11 foot tall space on a wall made of drywall.  The 12" shelves are going to be filled with large, heavy art books, so I need to come up with something that will be secure enough to accommodate that load.

I don't think he wants a full, wooden built-in, so instead I'm thinking that the double-slotted wall tracks/standards should do the trick -- 4 of the 8 ft. long vertical tracks spaced more or less 16" apart.  Something like this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-shelving-brackets/=z4bnyq

So three questions:

1. In terms of maximizing holding power, is it better to use a heavy duty hollow wall anchor -- like a toggle bolt -- or instead try to anchor the track on the metal studs?

2. And are toggle bolts the strongest drywall anchor, or is there something even stronger?

3. Any recommended source for the tracks and brackets?  The ones on McMasterCarr look decent enough -- plus they come in 8 ft. lengths which is basically the minimum I can do for these 11 foot walls, as my friend wants to run the shelves as close to the floor as possible.  But maybe you know of a supplier that offers tracks in 9 or 10 foot lengths?

Thanks for any advice. 

Toggle bolts are the strongest for sheetrock.  I would connect into the metal studs.  Holding up books is a lot of weight and my fear is that over time using toggles the shelf unit will pull the sheetrock off of the studs.  I would only use toggles on a couple of the supports that dont hit on the stud locations and use the primary supports on studs.  There are some new toggles that work like zip ties that are pretty impressive and very easy to use. 

I have only bought the shelving from Home Depot or Lowes.  Its all really easy to use. 

Hope this helps.

 

[windmill man]

Track over metal stud work then use something like below ,  drill through plasterboard and metal stud then set the anchors so the wings spread behind metal, its still a big ask for shelves of that size and proposed weight

http://www.screwfix.com/p/hollow-wall-anchors-8-16mm-m5-x-52mm-pack-of-10/12229

 

[leakyroof]

Any way to take the load down to the floor in your design?, like a tasteful footing of some sort?
This way, the drywall isn't carrying the load so much as keeping your supports vertical.

 

[Sparktrician]

Given that you know the type and weight of the books to be retained here, come up with an approximate total weight, then select a shelving system that is capable of the total weight plus 10-20%, and make very sure that you anchor it to solid framing, not drywall, and as previously suggested, rest the bottoms of the tracks on solid flooring.  I'd even go so far as to install strongbacks as needed. 

 

[tiralie]

It sounds like you might be dealing with a lot of weight so I would follow @ Sparktrician advice.

1. In terms of maximizing holding power, is it better to use a heavy duty hollow wall anchor -- like a toggle bolt -- or instead try to anchor the track on the metal studs?

Toggler makes several different types of anchors, the two I have used are the snap toggle and the toggler or nylon versions. The snaptoggle are stronger and I have used them for an application (double slotted rails) similar to yours and they are holding well.

Putting them (snaptoggle) through the metal stud will increase their strength, or rather spread the load up and down the steel stud rather than having the load of the shelf pulling on the snap toggle in the drywall. Getting the snaptoggle oriented properly in a metal stud is a bit of a trick.

2. And are toggle bolts the strongest drywall anchor, or is there something even stronger?

Impossible to tell. There are too many unknowns/variables inherent in this question.

3. Any recommended source for the tracks and brackets? 

Hafele has them. Probably others do as well. Don't come any longer than 7.8 ft.

Tim

 

[rizzoa13]

If your really concerned about the weight you can cut a hole in the drywall large enough to put some solid blocking in between the metal studs. Or even better yet slip 2x inside the hollow metal studs youll be attaching to. I have installed miles upon miles of metal shelving into high rises and do not trust metal blocking or metal studs to carry the type of weight you are talking about.

 

[Holzhacker]

I used to do installs like this all the time. Had a few Sys set up with all different sizes of anchors and drill bits. Large TV's, shelving systems, racks, large pictures etc.
For light to medium items the metal wall anchors are fine. For light stuff even a few of the nylon aren't bad.
For a book shelf like you are looking at I would use 3/8 butterflies attached through the metal studs for primary support. Some of the metal screws are good as secondary support. 5/16 or 1/4" also work well.
- Use a 1/8" bit to verify both sides of metal stud so you can drill your anchor hole dead center
- Get a metal hole saw that will let the butterfly pass through and you are set. I think I was using an 1 1/8"
- Pop all the anchors through the holes and then use a couple of the metal screws to set the rails straight
The anchors aren't going to come through the studs. The wall will buckle over first. Adding wood into the wall is another option but changes the amount of time it takes to finish. I've done it under very heavy circumstances but not usually necessary.
I managed to get a lot of this work because people thought I was a stunningly bad mofo. Role in with a CT with various sys on top with all the necessary drills and anchors, a couple levels and a drop cloth and people couldn't believe it. Not that I'm actually all that great. It was really just an issue of low expectations. Most guys show up with all kinds of crap, make a huge mess and then the walls need to be patched and painted. I'd leave and everything was clean and done.
I made sure none of my shit ever feel because I would be so screwed. People would have gotten hurt and there is no way I'd let that happen.
As far as the shelving system, unless you really like this guy a lot, put it off on him. There are too many options to go jerking around shopping for something he may or may not like.

 

[mike_aa]

My vote goes for the Toggler SnapToggles that Tim Raliegh mentioned.  This webpage lists the holding weights.  I've used them on a handrail, for shelves, and for heavy cabinets.  I like them for there holding abilities and the fact that they are easy to use. 

One nice feature is that once they are installed in the wall, the screw or bolt can be unscrewed and screwed back in.  That came in handy when I was able to temporarily remove a small cabinet prior to painting the wall it was on.

Mike A.

 

[tjbnwi]

I like the system that uses a top hanging rail. The standards latch to the rail, the rails also get fixed to the wall also.

Use the snap Togglers.

Tom

 

[Stephen B]

[size=13pt]If the wall stud is not available for positioning the shelf or wall cabinet I use these -

[attachimg=1]

Unlike some other products the hole in the drywall exactly matches the insert, so there is little chance of slippage/movement. Further the screw fastens the toggle back tight on the rear of the drywall/plaster sheet.

Depending where you shop, at least in Australia they are available loose, in boxes or handy packs.

This IKEA laundry wall cabinet is one example where I have used this product.

[attachimg=2]

 

[ear3]

Thanks for all the replies -- I feel a bit more confident now.

When it comes to the load rating -- for example, the snap toggle says it can hold up to 265lb. in 1/2" drywall when using a 1/4-20 screw -- does that mean if I anchor two standards with 4 snap toggles each that my cumulative load rating is 2120 lb (265x8)?  Or does it top out at some multiplier (setting aside, of course, the issue of the drywall buckling)?

 

[tjbnwi]

Thanks for all the replies -- I feel a bit more confident now.

When it comes to the load rating -- for example, the snap toggle says it can hold up to 265lb. in 1/2" drywall when using a 1/4-20 screw -- does that mean if I anchor two standards with 4 snap toggles each that my cumulative load rating is 2120 lb (265x8)?  Or does it top out at some multiplier (setting aside, of course, the issue of the drywall buckling)?

I believe this is a question for the manufacture.

Tom

 

[Cheese]

[member=37411]Edward A Reno III[/member]
A few questions to consider.
Have you calculated the approximate total weight of the books and the shelving material? That'd be a good place to start to get an overall idea as to the total load involved.

Are the shelves actually starting at say, the 1 foot level and then proceeding up the entire 11' height of the wall? That's a lot of weight.

Will the heavier books be placed on the lower shelves?

Is there drywall attached to both sides of the metal studs and how thick is it? Metal studs will bend a lot easier if the gypsum is only attached to one side. There are stud load/deformation charts available, however you'll need to know stud width, flange width and material thickness along with stud spacing to plug into the calculator.

The 265# you refer to is purely tensile force positioned at 90 degrees to the surface of the wall. However, the bookshelves will place both tensile and shear forces on the anchors. And it could be argued, that because the book shelf is only 12" deep, the force will be more shear than tensile. I'd probably error on using the shear rating rather than the tensile rating. That's the reason it's important to know the total load involved because the shear rating is substantially less than the tensile rating.

Finally, I'd go along with the others and try to bring the loads back to the floor if possible. I could see a "bottom shelf" that functions as a shelf but is actually also the base which then spreads the load over a large area of the floor that it's resting on.

 

[ear3]

Thanks for all those excellent guidelines [member=44099]Cheese[/member]

[member=37411]Edward A Reno III[/member]
A few questions to consider.
Have you calculated the approximate total weight of the books and the shelving material? That'd be a good place to start to get an overall idea as to the total load involved.

Are the shelves actually starting at say, the 1 foot level and then proceeding up the entire 11' height of the wall? That's a lot of weight.

Will the heavier books be placed on the lower shelves?

Is there drywall attached to both sides of the metal studs and how thick is it? Metal studs will bend a lot easier if the gypsum is only attached to one side. There are stud load/deformation charts available, however you'll need to know stud width, flange width and material thickness along with stud spacing to plug into the calculator.

The 265# you refer to is purely tensile force positioned at 90 degrees to the surface of the wall. However, the bookshelves will place both tensile and shear forces on the anchors. And it could be argued, that because the book shelf is only 12" deep, the force will be more shear than tensile. I'd probably error on using the shear rating rather than the tensile rating. That's the reason it's important to know the total load involved because the shear rating is substantially less than the tensile rating.

Finally, I'd go along with the others and try to bring the loads back to the floor if possible. I could see a "bottom shelf" that functions as a shelf but is actually also the base which then spreads the load over a large area of the floor that it's resting on.

 

[Sparktrician]

Thanks for all the replies -- I feel a bit more confident now.

When it comes to the load rating -- for example, the snap toggle says it can hold up to 265lb. in 1/2" drywall when using a 1/4-20 screw -- does that mean if I anchor two standards with 4 snap toggles each that my cumulative load rating is 2120 lb (265x8)?  Or does it top out at some multiplier (setting aside, of course, the issue of the drywall buckling)?

The question neither asked nor answered is whether 1/2" drywall can withstand the weight you're proposing to hang from it.  My guess is not only no, but h-e-l-l no. 

 

[Cheese]

Shame on me...my assumption was that Edward was going to tie back into the steel studs with the snap toggles. If so, the drywall would be adequately supported/compressed and restrained by the snap toggle system. However, if everything isn't tied back into the steel studs, the additional load will be transmittted to the drywall and 1/2" gypsum will not support the load.

 

[ear3]

That is what I would do.

Shame on me...my assumption was that Edward was going to tie back into the steel studs with the snap toggles. If so, the drywall would be adequately supported/compressed and restrained by the snap toggle system. However, if everything isn't tied back into the steel studs, the additional load will be transmittted to the drywall and 1/2" gypsum will not support the load.

 

[Sparktrician]

That is what I would do.

Shame on me...my assumption was that Edward was going to tie back into the steel studs with the snap toggles. If so, the drywall would be adequately supported/compressed and restrained by the snap toggle system. However, if everything isn't tied back into the steel studs, the additional load will be transmittted to the drywall and 1/2" gypsum will not support the load.

I really think you would do well to have a conversation with a manufacturer of steel studs regarding recommendations.  Remember, you have a torsional bending (levering) component here with multiple shelves each carrying significant weight.  Steel studs are not meant for that kind of stresses.  Look at the stresses as having a zig-zag effect on the studs, and steel studs are spectacularly unsuited for that directional stress.

 

[Cheese]

I really think you would do well to have a conversation with a manufacturer of steel studs regarding recommendations.  Remember, you have a torsional bending (levering) component here with multiple shelves each carrying significant weight.  Steel studs are not meant for that kind of stresses.  Look at the stresses as having a zig-zag effect on the studs, and steel studs are spectacularly unsuited for that directional stress.

I agree with you...and I still think your idea of bringing the weight to rest on the floor is the best and safest approach.

Interestingly enough, I've never seen steel studs used for load bearing applications, and there's probably a good reason for that. I've always seen them used for non-load bearing walls such as walls for an office or partitions in a work space.