Questions for ETS150/5 Owners

[RustE]

Which abrasives do you find work best with this sander?  I came across a Festool brochure with a recommendation of 40-180 grit abrasives.

Do you have any other advice for using this sander?  Already bought the hard pad to go with the stock soft pad.

Initially will be putting this sander to work on some cabinet and workbench builds, smoothing rougher wood, etc.

 

[rst]

I personally do not use any grit under 120 with my ETSs as they are more a finishing sander than for roughing out.  That's easier to say if you have a Rotex.  I just finished cleaning up a 30 year 15 lite for door with lots of water stains.  I used the Rotex coarse setting with 60 grit, switched to 80 and 100 on the fine setting.  Used my ETS 125/3 with 120 - 180 before spraying.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Smoothing rough wood can be done with the ETS150/5 if you are not in a hurry. Depending on type of wood it does ok. I've gone down to grit 60 but seldom go below 80 since it is not that kind of sander. But - it does work well on softer woods with 60/80 grit.

But it ain't no RAS or ROTEX that's for sure. Smoothing hardwood would take too much time with the ETS150/5.

 

[grbmds]

I mainly use Granat. As far as grit, I have used anything from 60 on through 220; most stop at 150 or 180. However, the only reason I would use something less than 120 is because there is some imperfection I'm trying to get rid of. Basically the sander just works great no matter what grits you use. It's just a great sander. Like any sander, wipe off the wood surface between grits to make sure there is  no grit on the surface which will negate the next step up.

I use the hard pad only. It's just better at keeping flat surfaces flat.

 

[RustE]

[member=25351]rst[/member]  I have not bought coarser than P150 for the Pro5 and RTS400 thinking that P80-P120 would not be the best match. So I am looking for the ability, or option, to use the coarser grits with the ETS150/5.

[member=2085]Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits[/member]  I knew the ETS150/5 was not going to remove material as fast as a Rotex.  Thankfully as a hobbyist the time factor is less of an issue if I decide to try something.

[member=19734]grbmds[/member]  How do you feel about the finish quality with P220?  Scott Burt's article suggests going up to P320 for some surfaces, which has me wondering if I could use P240 between coats of finish.

From "Which Festool Sander?" by Scott Burt:
ETS150/5 ($360): #571916 The 5mm stroke ETS packs more bang for the buck because it can cross over from interior to exterior tasks.
Throw some 80 on and sand a deck, stick 320 on it and do a countertop. Solid all around 6″ tool.

 

[Sanderxpander]

I can only speak to a similar situation since I own a 5mm stroke Mirka Deros. It may have slightly more power as it's EC, but it's probably not a huge diff. I've mostly done soft woods, "rough" plywood and tried to remove paint. It doesn't perform even nearly as well as my RO90 in Rotex mode when removing paint but it does just fine with 80 grit Abranet quickly smoothing wood. It would probably do well for the occasional paint job too but the paint I had to remove (all in my own home) is all 80 years old and several layers, it's incredibly hard.

I don't think it'd be very succesful for any application that would really require 60 grit or lower but on the 80 grit stuff I did it was fine. The giant pad (compared to my RO90) easily made up for any increased speed I might've gotten from 40 grit Rotex mode, plus it left an already reasonably smooth surface compared to the Rotex.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I wasn't trying to tell you to get a Rotex, I am sure you know they are quite different - I am only saying it is a bit slow.
And for some tasks _too_ slow. I didn't get the perspective right in my posting but the one from Sanderxpander sums it up well.

I do think that for softer woods the "slow going" is an advantage for rubbing out small dents and imperfections. The Mirka Deros is a little quicker in this regard but both are fine if you don't mind going slow - or if you _need_ to go slow.

Where the cross over point between slow and too slow lies is hard to say but sanding down oak is very different from finishing oak. If removal is the goal the other sanders are better.

 

[grbmds]

[member=19734]grbmds[/member]  How do you feel about the finish quality with P220?  Scott Burt's article suggests going up to P320 for some surfaces, which has me wondering if I could use P240 between coats of finish.

[member=63201]RustE[/member] When I sand between coats, I usually lightly hand sand with 400 grit or higher. The goal is only to remove grain that might have been raised (especially on the first coat) and to really just smoothe out the surface. I'd be afraid that, with 320 in a 150/5 sander, I'd actually remove some of the finish or stain.

I have used the 150/5 with 60 grit to level out a surface. Then, of course, it's a little hard to get back to smoothe again and you can't skip grits (like 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, etc.) . Actually you can skip a grit but wait till you get to the higher grits like 120 or 150.

The General Gel Poly I have used quite often, actually says on the can to sand to 150 before applying and I have had great success with doing just that. However, it depends on what your making/finishing. If you want a glass smooth surface (whether satin or gloss finish), then you will need to go higher than 150; up to 220 (240) or 320, maybe even 400. There are a lot of variables.

For my projects, I have repeatedly sanded to just 150, stained, hand sanded with 400 grit to knock down the grain, and then moved on to multiple coats of wipe-on poly. If no staining, then that step isn't relevant.

My answers are based on what I have had success with and the type of finish I like, which is not gloss and a more dull look. I'm sure there are multiple ways to and methods. You might have to experiment a bit to determine what works best for you.

Over all of it I love the 150/5. It's weight is just right; no vibration; great at keeping things flat with the hard pad, and, with Granat, it produces a great surface to finish regardless of what grit you finish up with.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I do a lot of spray paint (Sherwin Williams) at times and we have a well set up spray room with all the goodies.

Even the best guy in house "settles" for 240 grit for paint jobs though there are times when a higher grit is warranted.  He uses a pressure canister with Anest Iwata 400 and that thing does squirt out quite some paint. Usually he does not have to respray much even on larger jobs. Sometimes he primes edges twice since the primer cures fast and is easy to sand. He does not go to a higher grit for sanding primer.

For intermediate sanding I think he does use 320 grit, that is when he needs to make a second top/finish coat.

My preferred "best standard finish" is 320 grit, but my Anest Iwata 400 doesn't have the same output my colleague has with his set up so I don't get the same volume of paint out on to the object so I benefit from a more polished sanding.

For clear coat I do 320.

For doors and such I settle for 180/240 grit after primer and 240 between coats.

For some work I have gone up to 500 grit, but that is usually only when I have a thin layer I need to smooth out for last coat and/or respray. Or loudspeakers/high gloss. 

I do have a few 2000 grit polishing pads for critical work, if I get a little speckle on a critical area I rub it out with the 2000 pad and matte down the surface for a respray. This I do when I respray shortly after the first spray (say, less than an hour) since even 320 grit can cause swirl marks on a surface that isn't fully cured when using a machine. The 2000 grit pad I run by hand.

We use infra heaters for faster curing but usually leave the stuff to cure overnight for packing the next day, depending on type of material.

In short 240 is fine but I play it safe with 320 if I can but I can't see much of a benefit in going higher unless there is a very specific case for it. At the crossover from 240 to 320 the paint technique starts to make more of a difference than the grit used and sort of blur out the difference. We have very powerful lighting in the spray room and catch pretty much all imperfections but most of the minor blemishes we see in there are pretty much invisible outside of that room so I have learnt to ease down a little on the OCD.

After respraying an entire school - over a hundred doors and 22 would fit at a time in the room - I don't see anything else as "large jobs" any more. We didn't have a single door fail inspection and that was unprecedented said the guy that inspected the work - but we did repaint a few that we caught in our own inspection prior to packing.

After that horrific experience (I am a carpenter, not a painter) I didn't even frown upon the task of planing and cutting up 250 meters of trim, edge rout them, prime them and paint them up over a weekend. I have become mentally numb but I get by since I keep it simple, I stick to what works with minimal friction but if I need to step something up a notch to deliver I do that.

Spray painting is easy compared to the other work I do but it can turn into a mess if you don't have your wits with you. Some of my worst experiences in the workshop have been paint related...

 

[pingvinlakrits]

grbdms: for stain I go 500 grit between coats if needed (we don't have 400 stocked, but that would suffice) and sometimes I run the Mirka Deros and sometimes by hand. All for the same reasons you stated.

A colleague just taught me a stain primer technique which is applying stain by hand on the parts of a (wood) surface that doesn't take stain as well as the other parts - before spraying. It works better than staining, sanding and staining again. He has a few tricks up his sleeve but unfortunately he is closing his business down in a few weeks time. [sad] He has done the best spray paint and stain work I have seen to date and I've learnt my basics from him. I still get to call him for expert advice but it is a bit sad to see him switch careers. 

 

[grobkuschelig]

I have used 24p Saphire with the ETS/EC 150/5. no Problem at all.
It has the same stroke (5mm) as the Rotex 150 (minus the geared mode).
In cases where I need to sand longer, sometimes I prefer the ETS for the weight, but as others have stated, if removal is top priority, nothing beats geared mode.

I mostly go up to 320, if needed.
I feel with the 5mm stroke, a higher grit might be needed to get rid of swirl marks. But most of the times, I am fine with lower grits, if the wood will be oiled/polished...

 

[Jmacpherson]

I have the ETS 150/5 EC and I only recently purchased the Rotex 150 (Dec '17).

I have used the 150/5 EC with Granat P60 to strip finish/weathered wood with great results.
I have also used it all the way up to P2000 Platin on a piece of hardwood prior to oil, after which the Rotex took over with the buffing pads.

Far more comfortable for extended periods BUT in certain circumstances it has limits in terms of stock removal.
I had cca treated pine which had some saw marks/planer marks in it, actual grooves in the wood itself.
Even with Rubin P40 it struggled to remove it, the Rotex in geared mode with P60 raced through the wood.

In its defense though, I recently flattened a walnut panel with the Rotex + P40 and had to use geared mode because regular wasn't cutting it

 

[leakyroof]

The /5 is a great all around sander.  Depending on how soft or hard the surface is that you're sanding, you'll know its limits and abrasive choices in a few months using it.
I've gone as low as 40 grit with either my older ETS sanders or my new EC versions. The ECs, even in 3mm orbit, can eat up old Stains and Film Finishes in a stripping mode if you're lucky with your project and how well the removal is going, but admittedly, stripping old finishes isn't their strongest point.
But I typically don't go below 60 grit with them unless I just don't feel like getting out a Rotex or my RAS like others have noted.
It isn't just a orbit/stroke issue between sanders, the weight of the sander can help you on Horizontal or Flat sanding. ECs are really light, so there's that as well.  Once I'm at 180 to 220g, I switch to a 3mm Orbit Sander, either another EC or the Pro 5.  I DID sand clear up to 400 grit when my original ETS 150/5 was the only Festool Sander I owned, but once I tried out smaller Orbit Sanders like a 150/3, I added those for finer sanding needs.

Abrasives, I use what ever is the best choice for the job. For many applications that's Granat since I can switch between painted/finished surfaces to raw materials with no hesitation and keep using the same sander.
I own lots of Rubin 1 and Rubin 2 and it does a nice job on raw wood sanding, and it's cheaper than Granat usually from what I've seen .
I had bought much of mine before there was Granat even being offered...... [embarassed]
I use Mirka Mesh Abrasives and Festool's version of Mirka's Abranet in the new Granat Mesh with all of my ETS sanders for Drywall and Plaster work.. Just buy an Interface pad or two to save the wear and tear on your Sanders Pad and its hook and Loop 'fingers'.
If you don't want to spring for the Mesh stuff just yet, you can easily use Granat and even old stocks of Discontinued Brilliant 2 for Drywall and Plaster sanding since they do a great job and Brilliant 2 paper is getting some serious discounts from retailers try to clear it out of their inventory.

In- between Coat Sanding- I never used either of my 150/5 for this as I feel the orbit of 5mm is way too aggressive for me. I use my Pro5 almost exclusively for this sanding work.