Qwas Square Review

[black flag]

I just ordered this from Mr. Marino (thanks for the fast service) mainly to easily rip down sheet goods.

For the most part, I love this thing save for one issue:

The way the stock hole patterns are placed where the 90 degree edge butts up against the rail, the square will not work with a 1400 rail (for cutting the 48" width on a sheet of plywood). You have to tighten just one screw and hang it off the end of the rail so you have enough rail to finish the cut.  

Pics are attached to show what I mean: top pic shows the square properly seated on the rail with the outside screw all the way to the edge yet the rail is not long enough to cover the whole width of the board. bottom pic shows the position of the square in order to cover the 48" span - only one screw can be used to tighten the square to the rail.

I'd love to hear Qwas reasoning for not putting a hole in the middle of the square edge so one could use the 1400 rail on 48" wide sheets.  It seems like it would still offer plenty of enough stability and remain square.

It works perfectly with the 2700 rail on 8' lengths of sheet goods.

If there was the inclusion of that hole described above, I'd say this was the perfect solution for breaking down sheets using the TS55 and rails.  Instead, I will have to make it perfect by drilling that hole myself.

 

[waho6o9]

Maybe use those guide rail connectors?

GUIDE RAIL CONNECTOR
$15.00
Product No. 482107

[smile]

 

[rookie08]

or the 75" rail  [big grin]

 

[black flag]

I have the guide rail connectors - then you have the rail hanging off the sheet by 3 ft.

Buying the longer rail seems like a waste if this could work with drilling a simple hole.  I would assume many Festoolers own the 1080, 1400 and 2700 rails - as those work on the MFT, 4' sheet and 8' sheet respectively.

Despite this small gripe - the product works like a charm.

 

[Qwas]

I hear this complaint all the time.  [sad] The problem is not with the Qwas Square.

48" plywood length = 1220 mm
Distance between gibs on TS-55 saw = 165 mm
165 mm of of extra guide rail length is required at each end of the plywood.
Total guide rail length needed to cut 48" plywood = 1550 mm

The 1400 guide rail is too short with or without my Qwas Square.

Now lets say I put a hole in the middle like you recommend. It will require at least 130 mm of guide rail length leaving 70mm overhang at the far end. Not near enough for an accurate, straight cut.

The 1400 guide rail is still too short.  [embarassed]

Now if you really want to cheat, why not use the 2 bolt holes next to each other at the top? It will only require 2 1/2" or 65 mm of rail space. It was NOT designed this way for that reason but since you don't believe the length adds to the accuracy, why not use it.

 

[black flag]

Touché. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[nickao]

Or he can just drill the hole and make it work the way he wants it to.  

If you do "hear this complaint all the time" maybe adding the hole is the way to go whether you agree or not.It cant cost much and if it stops you "hearing it all the time" it may be worth it for nothing other than making the  customers happy. I have done many things I did not think were necessary or even correct to make a customer happy.  

 

[tbellemare]

165 mm of of extra guide rail length is required at each end of the plywood.

With all due respect, I will beg to differ with this statement...

On exit, the most required is half that distance. When the axis of rotation is even with the edge of the work piece, it is either fully cut or you have your depth too shallow.

Similarly, when starting a cut, the location of the front gib is not what determines how far back the guide rail needs to be but the front of the blade at plunge depth.

Tom

 

[nickao]

I prefer more than less and I think 165 mm is about right. Yes less can work, but with my weak wrists 82.5 mm is just not enough to give the saw the support I like. I want to cut through the wood and have that saw sitting on the rail enough to support the saw, 3.25 inches is just not enough for me personally to start or finish the cuts comfortably especially with a TS 75.

 

[Qwas]

165 mm of of extra guide rail length is required at each end of the plywood.

With all due respect, I will beg to differ with this statement...

On exit, the most required is half that distance. When the axis of rotation is even with the edge of the work piece, it is either fully cut or you have your depth too shallow.

But you still have the back half of the blade spinning and no front gib in contact to keep it straight. Without knowing how the thick the workpiece is or how many pieces are stacked, I need to design assuming a full depth cut.

Similarly, when starting a cut, the location of the front gib is not what determines how far back the guide rail needs to be but the front of the blade at plunge depth.

Very true, but along with the above answer, one should be using a Stop Block when plunge cutting. Are you recommending that I not abide by Festool's safety procedures? So if you want to plunge cut, you need to add more length for the Stop Block.  

 

[Qwas]

Touché. Thanks for the feedback.

I didn't mean for it to be a "Touché" moment.

To me this issue reads like "I tried to get the 1/4" bolts to feed into 3/16" holes and they don't fit." To answer you and Dovetails comments, if I add the hole at the middle I would still hear the same complaints. It doesn't solve the problem that the rail is too short.

I made the Qwas Square from someone's post on the Wish List of this forum. It had demands such as "Provide a fence underneath the rail at a calibrated 90 degrees", "Be re-calibrate-able but Non-Adjustable", "I don't care about the angle", and "Have an efficient way to screw a scrap of wood or other material to the fence". So far I receive flak for it being too long, not a 45 degree angle, and the guide rail is too short.

Needless to say, I have quit watching the Wish List.  [sad]

 

[tbellemare]

Steve:

I'm not suggesting a plunge cut to start. I'm just saying that the front gib's location does not determine how much of the rail needs to protrude in front of the work piece.

The back gib needs to be on the rail. The rail needs to be slid backward, off the work piece far enough that the blade will not engage the work piece at full planned plunge depth. The blade is what determines how much overhang is required not the front gib.

On exit, when the axis of rotation is even with the far edge of the work piece, the piece is cut. Actually, slightly prior to that location. How much prior is determined by how much the blade depth is greater than the depth of the work piece. As long as you have half the distance between gibs hanging off the end of the work piece, you will have the front gib engaged when you complete the cut.

Tom

 

[black flag]

Sorry for staring the s*&tstorm.  Admittedly, I'm new to festool (1.5 years) so this thread will act as a reminder to me to re-read all of the documentation that came with my gear so I use it properly and wisely.  Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[nickao]

Qwas you can never make everyone happy, you know that!

 

[Qwas]

Steve:

I'm not suggesting a plunge cut to start. I'm just saying that the front gib's location does not determine how much of the rail needs to protrude in front of the work piece.

The back gib needs to be on the rail. The rail needs to be slid backward, off the work piece far enough that the blade will not engage the work piece at full planned plunge depth. The blade is what determines how much overhang is required not the front gib.

On exit, when the axis of rotation is even with the far edge of the work piece, the piece is cut. Actually, slightly prior to that location. How much prior is determined by how much the blade depth is greater than the depth of the work piece. As long as you have half the distance between gibs hanging off the end of the work piece, you will have the front gib engaged when you complete the cut.

Tom

Tom,

I will concede the exit point. If one is cutting and the exit point gets half way between the gibs, the board is cut. They need to stop the saw movement and turn the saw off.

As for the entrance point, if I follow your idea, one still needs 6" of rail for a 3/4" workpiece or 7" for full depth.

So we have 1220 mm for the plywood, 150 mm for the front and 82 mm for the back. Total of 1452 mm. You still come up too short for a 1400 guide rail. And we still haven't left any "wiggle room" for the guide rail placement.  [sad]

 

[tbellemare]

I have to agree with you also - I think to start a full depth cut it takes closer to 180mm. I prefer my 1900 on a 4' cut. It's always nicer to have extra...

And with you also, Nick. Using the TS 75, you REALLY need the 1900.

Tom

 

[mishle]

Qwas, first off thank you for your products.  I don't have the square yet but the next order I do with Bob your square should be on it.

Rail length was the first problem I ran into when I purchased my ct33 ts75 package. I was told I did not need an overhang. Now I own more rails some day If I make a longer box for my trailer I will order the longer rails also so I don't have to join them.

So if I'm reading all this correctly the "rule" is to have ~13" longer than the piece you want to cut 7" in the front and 6 1/2 inches on the back end for the ts 55

What is it for the ts 75?

Now that I know this I am thinking of marking my rails so I can see where it needs to be placed. maybe two marks one for perfect and one that I can get away with.

 

[Qwas]

As you can see, the amount of overhang is more of a personal preference than any rule.  [smile] Many home hobbyist will try to get by with a shorter rail while a pro realizes it is faster to slap a longer rail on than to spend time getting the overhang right. It also depends on whether you use the Hose/Cord Deflector  and/or the Stop Block for plunge cutting. Safety is the side of having more rail so I prefer extra rail length.

Evidently, I like more overhang than most. I use the hose/cord deflector which uses 1 1/4" of rail. Then I like the saw to sit fully on the rail without touching the workpiece, about 10-12". I like 12" at exit, a full saw length. I have a 1080 rail that has the guide rail connectors always installed so it just takes a few seconds to add an extra rail. All my rail have perfect ends that I can butt against each other and get a straight cut.

I don't have the TS-75 so I'm not sure what its requirements are. You may notice the TS-55 use 6 1/4" blades and the gib spacing is about 6 1/4". The TS-75 uses an 8 1/4" blade.

 

[jtwood]

"I made the Qwas Square from someone's post on the Wish List of this forum. It had demands such as "Provide a fence underneath the rail at a calibrated 90 degrees", "Be re-calibrate-able but Non-Adjustable", "I don't care about the angle", and "Have an efficient way to screw a scrap of wood or other material to the fence". So far I receive flak for it being too long, not a 45 degree angle, and the guide rail is too short.

Needless to say, I have quit watching the Wish List. " [sad]
[/quote]

Thanks for producing the dogs and the Qwas Square -- I have them both and find them very useful.  I am a home hobbyist and make furniture.  I am not rushed for time in a professional situation so it doesn't bother me to spend the extra time to set up using the correct length guide rail.
Sorry to hear that you've quit watching the Wish List -- we can always use great products from creative people.

 

[Julian Tracy]

So - everyone in the USA is buying Festool TS55 saws to crosscut 48" plywood and you're saying that the stock rail they give you for the saw is not actually the proper length to do so?

So instead of faulting Festool for basically including a rail that is insufficient for the intended purpose, we should all just pony up another $150 to get the rail that's long enough?

I don't know, here's an idea? How bout making the darn rail a couple inches longer from the get go?

Please... plenty of folks make perfect cuts on 48" stock all day long with that rail.  Would it be nicer with a bit longer one?  Sure.  Do I need it?  Not really. 

Now - they offer the option to substitute a 75" rail with the saw aty purchase; I don't think they did for some time.  Buy a saw, get the 55" rail.

Festool's a lot like Apple.  They make great innovative products but stop short at the simple design details that would make their products "just right".  Like the iphone's camera - dumbest, overly simple interface that could be.  No control, no options. - would have been so much easier to make it great, but they stopped short at pretty ok.  Won't hear too many folks here complaining about it though - most just open their wallets for more.

Julian