random orbit sanders........which one for general use?

[rex]

I am a contractor and alot of my work involves painting,  exterior wood rot  repair, and general finish carpentry. I currently have a 15 year old Bosch 3283 that worked very nicely over the years as an intermediate type ROS. It was aggressive enough to sand old paint off and level off wood splices and joints, yet gentle enough with variable speed to fine sand cabinet parts for finishing.  Trouble is, its wearing out and needs replacement soon.

Been researching Festool and went to Woodcraft to test drive the ETS 125 and ETS 150/3. I was very impressed by the smoothness compared to my Bosch.  The ETS 125 seemed to bog down a bit under pressure, but the ETS 150/3 handled the pressure better. I like the pistol grip on the 150/3 alot too, since my Bosch was similar and after 15 years of using it , I  like the feel of that type sander better than a palm grip. .
I havent tried the RO 125 or RO 150 yet simply because the price scared me a little ;D but defintely want to test drive them on my next trip there.
  My question is.........out of the four sanders I mentioned above, which one would be my best choice as a good all around performer? I think I can rule out the ETS 125 for lack of power,as I think it a better sander for finishing only.  I need a slightly more aggressive sander than  it offers. 

 

[Brice Burrell]

You're in a similar boat as me, I've got 3 of the 4 sander you mentioned (ETS125, ETS150/3 and the RO125). If you want a sander that is better at rapid stock removal than finish sanding the Rotex sanders are the way to go. The ETS sanders are better at finish sanding. In your case I'd recommend the ETS150/5 over both the ETS125 and ETS150/3 if you decide on a finish sander. I'd break the sanders down like this:

RO150, very good at rapid stock removal, decent finish sander with a learning curve to produce good finish results. Also can be used to polish. Can be fatiguing with long use.

RO125, good at rapid stock removal, marginal finish sander, can have a long learning curve, also polishes. Can be fatiguing with long use.

ETS150/5, ETS150/3, excellent finish sanders, almost no learning curve. Little or no fatigue with long use. The number after the / is the size of the stroke or orbit in millimeters. The ETS150/5 with it's larger orbit can remove stock a littler faster than the ETS150/3.

ETS125, strictly a finish sander, small learning curve to get good finish results. Least expensive Festool sander.

I happen to like all of the eight Festool sanders I have. I was surprised to find I use my two ETS125 sanders the most. While some people don't like the ETS125 sanders they have been the best value of any of the Festool products I purchased. With that said I know each person's needs are different, the good news is Festool makes a sander that will likely fits your needs perfectly. Definitely get out and try the Rotex sanders. Let me know if you've got more questions (I'm sure you will). 

 

[bruegf]

If I could have only one sander I'd opt for the either the RO125 or RO150 depending on what I thought my primary usage would be.  The RO125 is easier to handle if you plan to do much work overhead. 

I currently have the RO125 and the ETS125 and very happy w/ both.

Fred

 

[rex]

one thing I just noticed about the Rotex sanders is that they dont have any dust bags available. The ETS models do. Im not sure if Im going to purchase a Festool dust vac yet, so I need dust bags. If I purchase the Rotex 125 or 150, is there any way to fit these with dust bags? I do alot work outside on houses, so I cant hook up to  dust vac too easily if Im up on scaffolding or a ladder. I need to be able to use the sander without a dust vac hooked up.

 

[Brice Burrell]

one thing I just noticed about the Rotex sanders is that they dont have any dust bags available. The ETS models do. Im not sure if Im going to purchase a Festool dust vac yet, so I need dust bags. If I purchase the Rotex 125 or 150, is there any way to fit these with dust bags? I do alot work outside on houses, so I cant hook up to  dust vac too easily if Im up on scaffolding or a ladder. I need to be able to use the sander without a dust vac hooked up.

As far as I know the there is no dust bag for the Rotex sanders.

 

[thinkingdog]

I have the 150/3, RO150 & the DTS 400.

By far, the 150/3 is my most used sander...it is my "go to" sander.  My uses are primarily finishing.  The RO150 comes is terrific for stock removal and shaping.  I used it extensively when working on my log cabin this summer.  I agree with the comment that is fatiguing with long use. That said, it is more controllable (and comfortable) than any hand-held belt sander I have used.

Brice:  Do you use the LS130?  Thoughts?

-Scott

 

[rex]

Brice............how do use your Rotex, with or without the dust vac?

 

[wotan]

I initially  bought the RO125, and it worked great! But it is heavy and when you work over your head, which i do a lot, then your arms get fatigued. I still believe that it needs an additional handle. I bought it with a CT 22 and I also got an extra hose. I own the 8' and a 16' that i hook together and i use the ETS 125 and the RAS 115.  I returned the RO125.  I hope to purchase a Deltex in the future, because my Multimaster just doesn't cut it in the sanding mode.
For the painting and restoration trade Festool needs a lighter version of the Rotex for working off of ladders.

For your future consideration, it makes good sense to purchase a vac with the hepa option when sanding media that might contain lead residue, especially when working on households that have children under the age of five.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

The RAS is a bad mamma jamma.

 

[sw1211]

Once you buy your sander I'm sure you'll have questions regarding the various sand paper offerings, here's a link to a brochure to answer some questions about those options.

http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/abrasives_brochure.pdf

Also, here's a guide for choosing the right sander, http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/how_to_pick_the_right_festool_sander.pdf

 

[Brice Burrell]

Brice............how do use your Rotex, with or without the dust vac?

Rex, I've used it both ways a lot. I always use a vac inside and try to use the vac when sanding anything I don't want breath. I've definitely used it without a vac, if you keep the dust port pointed away for your face your be ok. The blower is fairly strong so it does a nice job of directing the dust away.

The dust port on the RO125 is longer than other Festool sanders, I can't help but believe that's to prevent the dust bags from fitting. I would think it's possible to modify the port to fit a dust bag. The downside to that is the overall length is going to make the sander harder to use. A vac and a long hose might be a better choice when at all practical. I saw over on the JLC forum Tom (he's a member here too) posted about overheating the sanding pad when not using a vac. That hasn't been my experience. The sanding pads are $30, not cheap but not crazy either. I've not worn out a sanding pads velcro yet, I've damaged pads from gouging the edges badly enough to replace them (all user error).    

 

[Brice Burrell]

..........Brice:  Do you use the LS130?  Thoughts?

-Scott

Scott, I recently purchased a slightly used LS130 (thanks to Joe Jensen) but I've only used it a couple of times so I can't make any meaningful comments. Seth has a lot more experience with the LS than I do and he has a nice review of on talkFestool, here's a link to his review.

If you have any specific questions I will try to answer them as best I can or someone else you.

 

[Peterm]

I have a Rotex 150, ETS 150/5 and LS130; I expect to add a Deltex soon. The 150/5 only comes out to play when I'm working vertically or overhead a lot as it's much lighter than the Rotex. The LS130 is great for paintwork prep - I've never found the need yet for the profiles, but they're there if you ever do need them... -

If you don't mind me saying, I think it's a mistake not to use a vac with the sanders, IMO - dust collection is one of the huge benefits of Festool sanders; I've looked into using a backpack vacuum as an extractor for ladder/scaffold work, but the manufacturers I've contacted here in the UK haven't been particularly forthcoming about what class of dust they filter, so I'm still looking.

Hope this helps, Pete

 

[tbellemare]

It's just my opinion so take it for what it's worth, but I think there are 4 main reasons to use effective dust collection if possible...

• The number one reason is it to keep the air (and you lungs) as clean as possible.
• The seond is to keep the area as clean as possible and reduce clean up time. Time is money.
• Another reason is to keep the abrasive clear, which makes it work better and last longer. You aren't resanding the same fibers, or paint, or whatever.
• There's also cooling. Having air move across the abrasive and pad helps cool them and can make them last longer.

Brice, I suspect that you don't have a problem with cooling like some people do because you probably have a real "feel" for what you are doing and how to use your tools. I think every time I've seen melted pads was when the melter didn't own the sander.

When I work overhead or up high vertically, I try to tie the hose and cord to the ladder or something so I'm only working with a short span. I think just that little extra weight adds to the fatigue. If you think about it, with every move, you have to move the cord and hose all the way to the ground.

Tom

 

[Brice Burrell]

.........Brice, I suspect that you don't have a problem with cooling like some people do because you probably have a real "feel" for what you are doing and how to use your tools. I think every time I've seen melted pads was when the melter didn't own the sander..............

Tom

Tom, your right, I do have a good feel for the sanders I own and I should have made that point in my earlier post. The sanding pads I've replaced weren't damaged by the owner, yours truly.

I won't argue that using a vac is the best practice but there are times it just isn't practical. Let's keep these exceptions to the rules in the proper context. When on ladder 30 feet in the air sanding siding on a 125 year old Victorian lets face it we aren't going to drag a vac it there. And the we don't need to best possible finished results these sanders can produce. What we want is to get back home at the end of the and ideally turning a profit. Struggling with a vac on a ladder is the safest or most efficient way to do a job. That said I've had my CT Mini on scaffolds plenty of times.

I can't say this with any great authority but I believe the blowers built in to the sanders do most of the extraction of the dust. Of course it only shoots it out of the dust port. The vacuum collects the dust and safely removes it from the sander's dust port keeping it out of the air and off of your work piece/area. While the vac helps keep the sanding pad cool to some degree, it certainly isn't the biggest factor in preventing damage to the pad from overheating. Overheating is caused by user error, too much downward pressure from pushing (or excessive suction from a vac but pretty unlikely).

Your points are well taken Tom and while my post might suggest I don't completely agree that isn't the case at all.          

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Going to have to have them hooked up to a dust extractor by next year, unless you want some epa fines.

Just add another hose or two, or buy/rent a man lift.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I am a contractor and alot of my work involves painting,  exterior wood rot  repair, and general finish carpentry. I currently have a 15 year old Bosch 3283 that worked very nicely over the years as an intermediate type ROS.  

Rex, judging your needs, I'd say the Rotex is the way to go. Whether that's the 150 or the 125 is up to yourself. The 150 is heavier but will cover more area in the same time. The 125 on the other hand is easier to handle, less tiring and will do smaller objects easier than the 150.

I got the RO150, the Deltex DX93 and the RTS400. 95% of the work I do with them is paint prep and I do a lot of it lately. I'm not even a pro, but because of my upbringing in a body shop I do know how to work like a pro. People keep asking me to do jobs for them, so that most of my free time goes into painting lately.
 
The Rotex is much more of an all-rounder than the ETS150. The ETS is much lighter than the Rotex so if you're only working on cabinets/furniture, the ETS might be the sander of your choice. But if you need to work on old house trim, with weathered layers of paint, the Rotex is of much more use than the ETS. The Rotex' rotational setting compared with the higher power of the motor will make short work of any uneven surface. That also includes leveling out walls or floors. It will take you A LOT longer with the ETS to get the same result. And, when you need a good finish, the Rotex will also do this for you. You'll have to put in a bit more effort and care than with the ETS, but you will succeed.

Some people say that the Rotex is less suited as a finish sander. I don't understand this. I got no problem getting a very fine finish with it. People say it's also tiring and difficult to control. I don't have that problem either. I think I might a tiny bit stronger than the average bloke, so maybe that explains it, but I also got no problem at all working with it on ladders or using it above my head for longer times.

rex, if you're professional contractor, don't shy away from getting good tools. Don't scare away from the price of a Rotex. You'll get a lot of years of use out it, so the cost per year will be low. Also, this machine will make you do the job twice as fast as you're used to with the Bosch. I know because I had a similar sander as your Bosch before I bought my Rotex. It's a HUGE difference. And time is money. The Rotex will save you time so you can do more jobs and make more money in the same time as before.

Also, get the Deltex next to the Rotex. Rotex+Deltex = every job in the house you can do, with great efficieny. Oh, and get a CT Mini vac. It's a crime to sand without dust extraction. ;D If you think that's too expensive, get a second hand house vac for 20 dollar. Even that is A LOT better than a stupid (pardon my French) dustbag.

Btw, about a dustbag, after reading this thread I tried to fit the dustbag of my RTS to the Rotex, it doesn't fit right away but if you would be willing to make a cut here and there it can work. The RTS has the same dustbag as the ETS. But then again, just get a vac, you're a professional after all.  8)

 

[Jim Becker]

My go-to sander 95% of the time is the 150/3. But I don't use it for finish carpentry work and the other things you describe...only furniture and cabinetry work in my shop. I also have the Rotex 150. Great tool, but I can't one-hand it, so it would never be an "only" sander for me.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Great advice Alex.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I also have the Rotex 150. Great tool, but I can't one-hand it, so it would never be an "only" sander for me.

I can one-hand it with great ease and do it all the time. But it sure is not an "only"sander for me either. It can't do all. To be a serious professional and work efficiently, you need more types.

Brice, you said you used the ETS125 most, can you tell a bit more about it? I'm thinking about getting one since I want a 125mm sander to fill in some gaps my other sanders don't cover. I can get a nice deal on one if I'm quick. The thing that most concerns me is the strength of the motor. I've read that it's possible to stop the rotation if you press hard enough. Now I'm the type of guy to use some force now and then when needed, so I mainly wonder, how much force do you have to apply before the ETS125 doesn't cut it anymore?