Re: Guide rail speed square... dedicated 90 for crosscutting and shelf dadoes.

[RONWEN]

Good idea Wayne.
I don't intend to notch my square (from Steve) because I will just be using it for sawing (I never clamp any rails for sawing).  This is all about suggestions for Qwas providing the most versatile, high quality product as he usually always does.
Without having it in hand, right now i'm thinking that I'll add a hardwood or aluminum guide piece to the reference edge.  After I get it I may decide it isn't needed.

Again Steve, GREAT product!  Keep the ideas flowing...

 

[Corwin]

Corwin, you are right, no space for a clamp. I thought about it but then it would interfere with the fence being a square triangle off of the rail. My thinking is if you are routing chances are you are on the bench where other clamping options are available. You could clamp the Rail Fence to the table, slide the Rail Fence farther on the guide rail and then clamp the rail, etc...

Maybe it is just a difference of opinion, but I would think the ability to use your new guide rail accessory with both the saws and the routers would be preferable to retaining any ability for the use as a square 'off' the rail when/if that would also limit routing operations.  Heck, we all have other squares, don't we?  Sure, it would be handy, but I would think your product would be handier if it would allow the rail to be clamped in place.  

I'm not understanding your other clamping options for holding the rail to the workpiece during routing operations.  As I see it, using the Festool clamps in the rail's bottom T-track slot is the only way to clamp the rail to the workpiece in a way that also leaves the top of the rail clear for the router to travel unencumbered.  If you have a way to use your new product that works for those routing operations, please elaborate.

As is, this new Rail Fence looks fine for cutting operations.  But, I think I would be disappointed by this accessory if I could not also use it successfully for routing...

On Edit:  I see 3 new posts since I started this reply...  Wayne's suggestion of the FS-Rapid clamp or even the Gecco clamps might work in some situations, but I would certainly prefer to use the standard clamps instead -- much better grip and would work for all situations.

 

[Qwas]

Here is an aux Fence attached to leave space for a clamp. I would jointer the edge of the aux fence normally before use but didn't do it this time to save time.

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As for how to clamp on the table... Attach a quick clamp to the bottom of the rail at the far end, and clamp to the workpiece. Slide Rail Fence forward at least another 5/16 inch. Attach a 5/16 bolt of proper height (I had to use a spacer since my bolt was not threaded the whole distance) to the top of the MFT profile and align rail to ride in the bolt as shown. Clamp the workpiece on that side to the MFT.

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[Qwas]

Here is another method. It requires having a scrap piece the same thickness as the workpiece. The setup is about the same as my last example but instead of a bolt in the table profile, it uses another quick clamp. The clamp at the near end is mounted upside down. Although the router will never need to be at the close end, there is room for its rail guide to fit with the clamp in place.

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[Corwin]

As for how to clamp on the table... Attach a quick clamp to the bottom of the rail at the far end, and clamp to the workpiece. Slide Rail Fence forward at least another 5/16 inch. Attach a 5/16 bolt of proper height (I had to use a spacer since my bolt was not threaded the whole distance) to the top of the MFT profile and align rail to ride in the bolt as shown. Clamp the workpiece on that side to the MFT.

Thank you demonstrating your clamping solutions.  As I see it, all that effort just goes to reinforce how much easier and quicker it would be if the Rail Fence allowed for clamping.  But, to allow for clamping the design would need to be much different, and likely the resulting product would be more expensive too.  Keeping the product as you have it is probably best.

Sorry to beat this to death, but I believe your customers would prefer to know both the strengths and limitations before ordering rather than possibly being disappointed -- I think as long as people know what to expect they should be pleased with what the product does.

 

[RONWEN]

As for how to clamp on the table... Attach a quick clamp to the bottom of the rail at the far end, and clamp to the workpiece. Slide Rail Fence forward at least another 5/16 inch. Attach a 5/16 bolt of proper height (I had to use a spacer since my bolt was not threaded the whole distance) to the top of the MFT profile and align rail to ride in the bolt as shown. Clamp the workpiece on that side to the MFT.

Thank you demonstrating your clamping solutions.  As I see it, all that effort just goes to reinforce how much easier and quicker it would be if the Rail Fence allowed for clamping.  But, to allow for clamping the design would need to be much different, and likely the resulting product would be more expensive too.  Keeping the product as you have it is probably best.

Sorry to beat this to death, but I believe your customers would prefer to know both the strengths and limitations before ordering rather than possibly being disappointed -- I think as long as people know what to expect they should be pleased with what the product does.

I have to disagree.  Two short cuts on the band saw will provide the needed clearance for the clamp when routing.  Bless Steve's heart, he's trying to provide a method which avoids any surgery on the square but it ends up defeating the speed & convenience inherent in the new product in the end.  In many (most) cases the square will be just fine out of the box for most peoples purposes.  To make a secure setup for routing, Steve turn your head & don't look...

 

[Corwin]

I have to disagree.  Two short cuts on the band saw will provide the needed clearance for the clamp when routing.  Bless Steve's heart, he's trying to provide a method which avoids any surgery on the square but it ends up defeating the speed & convenience inherent in the new product in the end.  In many (most) cases the square will be just fine out of the box for most peoples purposes.  To make a secure setup for routing, Steve turn your head & don't look...

Ron, I see what you mean.  And I agree completely with all of your above post.

 

[The Dude]

Update, as of this evening.  The initial 50 that they are rushing is now down to 26 left for delivery the 22nd.  We hope to have a conversation with our fabricators tomorrow to see if we can squeeze 25 - 50 more on that initial run. 

I just want to thank all of you for your support, and the many ideas (spit-balling) that has been going on.  It keeps Dr. Qwas on his toes.

Timmy C

 

[John Langevin]

Probably a dumb question ??? But why does the "square" need to be triangular and so deep, couldn't it just be a narrower rectangular bar with a notch where the rail clamp can go?

 

[Qwas]

It has some "depth" on the rail to get it's accuracy and strength to keep it from get bumped off afterwards. If you were going to use another square to align with, you would still want some depth for the strength reason.

 

[Les]

Steve,

Sorry but I guess I must be blind because I don't see how the square is clamped to the rail. I see the thumb nuts/screws but what is keeping the square clamped to the rail? What will prevent it from being knocked out of square? What kind of squareness tolerance will the square have to itself?

 

[Qwas]

The screws fit in the grove on the bottom of the rail. I don't want to go into the details of what keeps it square other than to say the bolts.  ;D

We have asked for .001 over 6 inches for the accuracy on the 90 degree and the 30/60 degree angle. The production shop said no problem but I'm waiting to see first.  [wink]

 

[Les]

The screws fit in the grove on the bottom of the rail. I don't want to go into the details of what keeps it square other than to say the bolts.  ;D

Ok but that is info I would need before ordering. On other squares that I have, it is too easy to knock them out of square.  [scared] Hopefully you will share once you've started shipping.

 

[The Dude]

The screws fit in the grove on the bottom of the rail. I don't want to go into the details of what keeps it square other than to say the bolts.  ;D

We have asked for .001 over 6 inches for the accuracy on the 90 degree and the 30/60 degree angle. The production shop said no problem but I'm waiting to see first.  [wink]

Just got word from the shop, and the squares could be ready as early as next week.  Looking forward to putting them through the paces.

Timmy C

 

[Brice Burrell]

Just got word from the shop, and the squares could be ready as early as next week.  Looking forward to putting them through the paces.

Timmy C

Me too. [thumbs up]

 

[Jonhilgen]

Just got word from the shop, and the squares could be ready as early as next week.  Looking forward to putting them through the paces.

Timmy C

Me too. [thumbs up]

Ditto.  Hurry up and ship em out!

 

[James Watriss]

This is pretty cool, I have to say.

On 2/1 I put this up as a wish list idea. 5 and half weeks later, my order is in. Now THAT'S something that doesn't happen every day.

 

[GreenGA]

I think I understand how this new Qwas guide works for squaring panel cuts.

How does it differ from the DeWalt offering?  They apprear to offer the same function.  Not that that would stop me from ordering the Qwas unit.

http://www.amazon.com/DeWALT-DWS5027-DEWALT-TrackSaw-T-Square/dp/B001J34IQ4

 

[Qwas]

2 big differences, accuracy and not plastic.  [smile]

Every Qwas Square will be as close to perfectly square as we can do. We are talking about a couple of thousandths of an inch over 1 foot. It will be made from 3/16 inch aluminum (I could say "aircraft grade aluminum" but I think we all know that is just marketing hype) so it is not easily bent or damaged but if a saw blade runs into it, the saw blade has a chance to survive.

Another big difference is the "re-calibrate-able, but NON-ADJUSTABLE" feature James Watriss wanted. Not much has been said about this but there are 2 easy ways to align for crosscuts, there are a couple more that will get you very close, and finally it is adjustable so you can put your own square against and align with a square. This should last anyone for many, many years.  [smile]

 

[sw1211]

2 big differences, accuracy and not plastic.  [smile]

The Dewalt isn't plastic.