Recommendations For Butcher Block Counter/Island?

[alltracman78]

I'm thinking about building a butcher block island top, possibly counter as well.
If I do I'll be using hickory or maple (Norway maple).
I like the fact that the maple grain is smoother, plus it's much easier to find if I don't have enough.
The maple has less character in the grain, so less of a loss if it's end grain?
I don't think it's as hard as the hickory though.

My question for now is; my understanding is "real" butcher block is end grain, not long grain.
Other than being cheaper, is there a particular reason all I see is long grain butcher block in kitchens?
I understand building it with end grain is considerably more work. Is it worth the extra effort?
I'd love to hear from those that have some experience with it.

 

[tsmi243]

This is really more of a knife question.

Tradition was, an end-grain board would make the edge last longer on the knife. 

Modern steel, even before you get to the ultra-exotic stuff, is a LOT harder than the knife your grandparents used. 

So whatever difference there is, probably isn't worth worrying about.  Edge grain is easier to clean, easier to build, and has fewer glue lines so it's less likely to crack if somebody dunks it in hot water without knowing better. 

 

[Cheese]

I don't think it's as hard as the hickory though.

FWIW...baseball bats are made from hickory, none are made from maple.

tsmi243 is all over this one.  [big grin]

End grain is kinder to knife edges but it's really not that large of a difference. If that matters, steel your knives once a week as opposed to once every 2 weeks.  [blink]  There are some of us that cook from scratch every night but I don't think the majority do, factor that into the calculation.

I actually prefer using solid wood stock...ie...no glue lines as there will be no substrate to fail. I've done the glued together cutting board thing and eventually the glue line will fail, that's a given. Remember the chain and the weakest link continuum?

Here's a glued maple board from Kohler, it lasted 2-3 years. And here's a solid walnut board I made, I fully expect 10 years plus from it...maybe even 15. It's already at the 5 year level and going strong.

The end grain board is even more problematic because instead of having 7-8 lineal glue lines, it has a glue line every 1.5" over its entire surface in both directions. More glue lines = more potential issues. Again, recite the chain and the weakest link thing... [smile]

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[Packard]

I don't think it's as hard as the hickory though.

FWIW...baseball bats are made from hickory, none are made from maple.

tsmi243 is all over this one.  [big grin]

Maybe cricket bats . . . [big grin]

According to the Loggers Association, (applies to major league only.  High school and college use aluminum.)

70% are maple,
25% are ash
5% are birch
https://www.amloggers.com/news/what-type-of-wood-are-mlb-bats-made-of

 

[blues]

Cricket bats are made from willow (English or Kashmir)

 

[Packard]

Cricket bats are made from willow (English or Kashmir)

I wonder what characteristics go into deciding what wood to use for bats.

And I wonder why there are no plywood bats.

Not plywood like sheet goods.  But plywood that has the plies wound around a dowel core.  By using a variety of widths of veneers, the amount of lathe work could be minimized. 

If they were made to the same standards as Baltic birch, i.e. no voids in any of the layers, I would think it would make for a more consistent bat.

Just idly rambling on the subject. 

 

[jeffinsgf]

I don't think it's as hard as the hickory though.

FWIW...baseball bats are made from hickory, none are made from maple.

tsmi243 is all over this one.  [big grin]

Maybe cricket bats . . . [big grin]

According to the Loggers Association, (applies to major league only.  High school and college use aluminum.)

70% are maple,
25% are ash
5% are birch
https://www.amloggers.com/news/what-type-of-wood-are-mlb-bats-made-of

The ash/maple ratio has flipped in recent years due to problems with the ash borer. I've noticed a lot more bat breakage, and my opinion is the maple bats are partially to blame.

Composite bats probably may make an appearance, and personally I think they'll detract from the game just like the pitch clock and the designated runner in extra innings. Bats that won't break when a pitcher entices a swing at a tight inside pitch will just homogenize the game even further. Faster is not always better.

 

[squall_line]

The ash/maple ratio has flipped in recent years due to problems with the ash borer. I've noticed a lot more bat breakage, and my opinion is the maple bats are partially to blame.

Composite bats probably may make an appearance, and personally I think they'll detract from the game just like the pitch clock and the designated runner in extra innings.

With an increased focus on statistics such as exit velocity and departure angle, and the increase in player safety standards in college and lower leagues, I'm hoping that it takes a long time for composite bats to come to professional baseball; helmets and face masks on pitchers would not be too far behind if they ever did.  Being only 55-ish feet (after stepping off the rubber) from a come-back shot launched at 110 MPH isn't a place you want to be, even with a helmet.

That said, I think the OP is looking for advice on a full butcherblock countertop, not just a cutting board.

 

[Packard]

Factory floors, at the turn of the century (1900) were often end grain wood, and I read primarily fir or pine. 

End grain flooring is having a mini-resurgence in residential and commercial settings.  I don’t know the relative advantages of end grain for flooring in residences.

In factory flooring back 1800 to 1900 the only thing that would stand up to heavy machines was end grain lumber. 

I worked for a company located in Williamsburg (Brooklyn, NY).  The factory floor was end grain.  It had absorbed 100 years of machine oil, so no maintenance required. 

Apparently, the end grain flooring absorbed impacts as well as oil, and the punch presses seemed to make less noise than the ones in the “newer” concrete flooring.  That observation is strictly subjective.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I wonder what characteristics go into deciding what wood to use for bats.

Willow is used since it compresses rapidly and then instantly returns to its original shape. Elasticity I’d guess you’d call it. It’s necessary because a cricket ball has the density of a lump of concrete.

 

[Packard]

I wonder what characteristics go into deciding what wood to use for bats.

Willow is used since it compresses rapidly and then instantly returns to its original shape. Elasticity I’d guess you’d call it. It’s necessary because a cricket ball has the density of a lump of concrete.

In steel, if you make a bend and it does not return to its original shape, then you have bent it “beyond its modulus of elasticity”.  I’ve heard engineers say exactly that with that exact meaning.  In layman’s terms spring steel has “memory” and wants to return to its original shape.  That wish to return to its original shape is thwarted when the deformation exceeds that modulus of elasticity.

However, I don’t know if that terminology applies to willow cricket bats.

 

[Cheese]

Factory floors, at the turn of the century (1900) were often end grain wood, and I read primarily fir or pine. 

End grain flooring is having a mini-resurgence in residential and commercial settings.  I don’t know the relative advantages of end grain for flooring in residences.

In factory flooring back 1800 to 1900 the only thing that would stand up to heavy machines was end grain lumber. 

A lot of the streets in the Twin Cities were originally constructed from end grain oak blocks. At some point, a layer of asphalt was applied over them and when that started to fail another layer of asphalt was applied and when that started to fail another layer of asphalt was applied until the entire assembly had to eventually be replaced. It's expensive because the blocks themselves are 4" thick...add another 3-4 layers of asphalt and you've got a trench that's more than 8" deep.

Just last week when I was walking the dogs I stumbled upon an alley just 3 blocks away constructed from end grain wood blocks.

 

[rvieceli]

[member=79208]alltracman78[/member]  back on track maybe  [scared]

I have a 2x4 foot walnut end grain butcher block that is 3-4 inches thick and I love it. However I use it as prep surface not for a “real” countertop. If you are using it for food prep. I highly recommend them.

But you said island. Most islands in a kitchen become a catch all command center for everything that goes on. Eating, homework, bill paying and just hanging out. Most traditional wood food prep finishes you are going to cut on are great for food prep but don’t play nice with the other activities. Most don’t completely dry usually some sort of mineral oil with beeswax perhaps. 

Maybe think about some sort of solid surface with an inset for a large end grain board. Covering both options.

Ron

 

[Ron B]

I worked at a Caterpillar Tractor plant that had the block wood flooring.  This was till early 1980's (layoff) and the building was 1/2 mile long-so lots of blocks (Decatur Illinois).  If we dropped a road grader frame or spilled 50 gallons of fluid of the floor, it would take the punishment.  I have seen the floor buckle 6 inches high in places, and it would eventually settle back down in place.  The radial drills used a water based coolant and we spilled a lot of it.  Blocks were all loose laid, and would just shift around.  This was heavy duty-manufacturing.  1/4" steel was considered sheet metal and I think the presses were 300 ton.  Same plant did it's own burners, heat treating and gear cutting.  Basically trucks of steel came in and road graders and mining trucks rolled out.  Interesting place for a farm kid like me. 

 

[Packard]

I put in butcher block countertop in my kitchen.  I purchased them from Ikea, back when they were selling solid wood butcher block.  Nowadays, I understand, that they have an 1/8” thick veneer over particle board.

I use cutting boards for cutting.  I never cut on the countertop.  For that reason, I applied an oil-based interior grade poly.  Four coats brushed on over 4 days. I placed protective paper over the countertop for 10 days before light use.  When I tested and it was cured enough, I no longer babied the surface.

It is 8 years now.  The finish is holding up well.  The wood substrate has a few divots.  I may scuff it up and apply another wipe on coat just to get it to be shinier again. 

I know they apply poly over end grain floors.  It is is not being used for a cutting surface, I think the reduced maintenance favors a poly finish.

Note:  My test for a full cure on poly is that when I scrape a penny (copper over zinc—soft metals) it does not damage the finish.  On 20 year old pieces, no matter how hard I scrape, I cannot scratch it. 

On 6 month old finish, the finish will dent, but not scrape off. 

Water based finishes never seem to match that test.  And the interior poly is harder than the exterior poly.

 

[alltracman78]

This isn't for a cutting board. This is for an entire island and possibly countertop.
No food prep.

What I'm curious about is the end grain vs long grain.
Is it worth the extra hassle to make it end grain? Or am I better off using long strips?

I don't think it's as hard as the hickory though.

FWIW...baseball bats are made from hickory, none are made from maple.

tsmi243 is all over this one.  [big grin]

Maybe cricket bats . . . [big grin]

According to the Loggers Association, (applies to major league only.  High school and college use aluminum.)

70% are maple,
25% are ash
5% are birch
https://www.amloggers.com/news/what-type-of-wood-are-mlb-bats-made-of

The ash/maple ratio has flipped in recent years due to problems with the ash borer. I've noticed a lot more bat breakage, and my opinion is the maple bats are partially to blame.

Maple is brittle, it likes to shatter.
Hickory is definitely tougher, as well as being harder.
I think maple is hard enough (I've seen softer woods used), I was more attracted because of the closed grain vs the semi open grain of hickory. Purely for structural strength I wouldn't even consider maple, I'd go to oak if I wasn't going to use hickory.

 

[Packard]

If “no food prep”, add 4 or more coats of oil-based poly to the one that looks best to you.

Open pore or closed pore will be the same with a sealed coat.  You won’t have to worry about spilled burgundy wine, or chocolate syrup.

You will have to have trivets available for hot pots and pans, and cutting boards for food prep (which you said you were not going to do).

And you won’t have to deal with rancid smelling countertops (I know there are Farmers’ Almanac remedies that may work to some degree).

Seal the top, and let your wife pick the pretty.

 

[waho6o9]

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I made a long grain oak butcher block for a client and as stated above seal it up and you're good to go

 

[tsmi243]

My bad.  I derailed your thread right off the hop

1. The whole reason end grain boards exist in the first place, is for knife edges.  It's literally the only thing end grain is good at.  In every other conceivable way, long grain is better.  Durability, stability, moisture resistance, material efficiency, labor, etc.

2. If you just like the look, then that's your call.  But gluing up a standard-size cutting board is arduous enough... I can't imagine doing an entire kitchen.  You're going to lose your GD mind.

 

[JSlovic]

I had an end grain maple countertop that was beautiful. It was made by a shop who specialized in making them.
They’d glue up square stock to a gross width of the top. Then cross cut to slightly thicker than the finished top. They’d stand on end and glue the strips together offsetting by half the stock thickness. They’d stack these to the length of the top.
They then run it through a drum sander to thickness and cut to final size.
They finished it with Waterlox