Recommendations for T&G ceiling install layout

[HDClown]

I'm ready to start installing 1x6 Beaded Pine T&G on my porch ceiling and am looking for some tips on layout.  I have six lengths: 8', 10', 12', 14', 16'.  There are 24 pieces of each length except for the 10' which is 30 pieces. I will run the wood parallel with a 32' span.  The rafters are 16" OC and with the way everything worked out on framing, there is a rafter right at the exact center point of the 32' span.  I'll be starting at the outside end of the ceiling (away from the house).

I'm looking for tips on how I use this assortment in the best fashion so I don't end up with a lot of weird short pieces or butt joint patterns that don't look random.  Also, should I use 2x16' pieces for my first row?  Would I want to strategically place any 2x16' pieces as I go?  Such as at the midway point, or 1/4 points, etc? 

As far as the rest of the install, everything is pre-primed and pre-painted on both sides, as well as the tongues and edges of the grooves.  I'll paint the cut ends as I go.  I'm planning to leave 1/4" - 3/8" gap around the entire perimeter for expansion. All butt and T&G joints will be fit as tight as possible.  Any concerns with this?  Fasteners are 2 1/2" 16ga stainless steel finishing nails.

Any since people like pictures, here's the stack of wood. Miter saw is a DW717 10" slider with Freud LU79 blade.

Here's a better shot of the ceiling

 

[rizzoa13]

Personally I wouldn't stress over laying it all out in regards to waste. Id focus on staggering my joints in what looks like the most random way. Pay close attention kt the cut offs you have throughout the install and always use a cut off when possible over cutting a full piece. If you allowed for enough waste ( general 10-15%) you should be fine and end up with a a perfectly staggered ceiling.

 

[#Tee]

ya i would lay it as if it was a floor, being its tng and its not going to be stepped on like a floor i wouldnt worry about terminating each piece at the rafters as if youre laying a deck. a random pattern would be nice.

 

[tjbnwi]

Snap a line off the house wall the width of the T&G plus 3/8", set you first course to this line. Measure to the beam to see if the piece and beam are parallel, this knowledge will allow you to adjust the pieces as you install the ceiling.

The 10' and 14' pieces do not lay out to 16" centers, As noted above these being T&G planking you can break the joint between joists. If this bothers you glue a backer to the joint.

At 32', I would leave 1/2" space at the ends of board to vertical obstructions.

Tom

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

Just curious why did you get so many different  lengths?  I have done a lot of 1x6 t&g and always get the longest lengths that I can get.  I start with the longer pieces and use my drop to start the next row.  Plus with longer material you will have less seams and less trips to the saw.  The nails are a little long.  I would personally shoot 2in galvanized, being your shooting through the tongue, 3/8 to 1/2in of the nail will be in the t&g and the other 2in will be in the rafters.  That's more than what's needed.  Unless you live on the coast there's no need to use stainless.  Galvanized nails will work great.

For your first row I would pop a line to make sure your running your material staight.  Once you figure out your popped line, measure back towards the house and check to see if there are differences in the measurements from side to side and in the middle.  If the porch or the house are out of square you might have to adjust your first line to split any discrepancies.  Being you are basically gridding out the ceiling it will show any issues. 

 

[HDClown]

I could have done all 16' lengths and just had 1 row of joints down the center rafter, which I could have dressed with a 1x6 like I'll dress the perimeter with.  It certainly would have made my life easier on installation (to a degree).  To be honest, I didn't really consider that until the stuff had already shown up at my house and it was too late at that point (otherwise it would have cost me hundreds in re-stocking). Same with 10' and 14' not falling with 16" centers, or else I would have not gotten those sizes.  So I have all the different sizes to work with. 

SS nails was only $25 more than the equivalent amount of galvanized nails, and that extra cost was so miniscule in comparison to total investment for the project, I went with the best option.  Got a great price on Grip Rite Prime Guard Max 304SS on Amazon due to some quantity being listed as "older model", even though they are current product.  I also did 2 1/2" because I found a few manufactures with instructions for 1x6 T&G ceiling installs that specified 2" of fastener into the joist/rafter, so that meant a 2 1/2" fastener needed. 

I've got about a 30 day hard deadline to finish based on my permit for final inspections, but I'm trying to have it done by next Tuesday or Wednesday since we're having a huge Halloween party on the 31st.  I work from home so I plan to put in a couple weekdays plus the entire weekend, and I'll have a helper of course.  Don't really have any clue how long this SHOULD take if someone who does it all the time is doing it, but I don't see why I can't get it done by my desired goal, 

 

[Holzhacker]

As others have mentioned obviously snap a line to make sure your 1st row gives you a straight base line to work from. Having done ceilings like this I would say a couple things.
- That's a big ceiling, you can do it the traditional way and just go straight across with random boards parallel with the house. Stagger the lengths however you want. As a friend likes to say 'if somebody is looking that close their trying to steal it'.
- However, since it is such a big ceiling with so many cans and fans I would consider doing two options. Either running the whole ceiling at one angle or doing a V shape install. I've found this can make a large ceiling with lots of fixtures more appealing looking. Personally I like the angle look, the V shape doesn't do much for me but I've installed it for clients.
- Another option would be to use the 8' to make a box inside of the rest of the ceiling as a centerpiece detail. To me a big ceiling like this begs for a bit of creativity. Of course with that comes extra time and likely extra waste.
I'm sure you'll make it look great whichever way you go.

 

[jeh]

Just curious why did you get so many different  lengths?  I have done a lot of 1x6 t&g and always get the longest lengths that I can get.  I start with the longer pieces and use my drop to start the next row.  Plus with longer material you will have less seams and less trips to the saw.  The nails are a little long.  I would personally shoot 2in galvanized, being your shooting through the tongue, 3/8 to 1/2in of the nail will be in the t&g and the other 2in will be in the rafters.  That's more than what's needed.  Unless you live on the coast there's no need to use stainless.  Galvanized nails will work great.

For your first row I would pop a line to make sure your running your material staight.  Once you figure out your popped line, measure back towards the house and check to see if there are differences in the measurements from side to side and in the middle.  If the porch or the house are out of square you might have to adjust your first line to split any discrepancies.  Being you are basically gridding out the ceiling it will show any issues.

Agree on the shorter nail length, though it would hurt anything to go longer. I'd stay with the stainless steel nails as you will never have a failure in terms of rust bleed. The porch is outside and moisture is going affect it in terms of shrinking and swelling. Some of the nail heads may become exposed and you'd be disappointed if any of them picked up surface rust. It is highly unlikely, but why skimp on what is the least expensive part of the job.

A few other points:
-Make sure the ceiling joists line up across the ceiling. Dips and swales will be visible. You will want to rectify this before starting as this will be noticeable to the novice (and more so than the ceiling seams).

-I'd start the first row with (2) 16 footers and then work either a repeated stagger pattern  (my pref) or random. Either will work. With the random you'll have to think it out a little bit so that your row-to-row seams don't look like a mistake. A repeated stagger pattern avoids this, but again it will take a little thinking with all of the different sizes. I like 2', but any multiple of that looks nice as well.

-You'll on the seams (obvious) (2x4's or 2x3's are more than adequate). Around the recessed cans you definitely need to use 2x3's or 2x4's as you want the heat of the lights to be able to dissipate.

Also, even if you had all 16 footers you would not want a seam in the middle covered by another board. It's a shortcut that won't look good.

 

[HDClown]

[member=652]JimH2[/member]

-You'll on the seams (obvious) (2x4's or 2x3's are more than adequate). Around the recessed cans you definitely need to use 2x3's or 2x4's as you want the heat of the lights to be able to dissipate.

I'm not clear on what you are getting at here.  Can you clarify please?

 

[jeh]

If the butt joints don't hit a ceiling joist you'll need some blocking. A prior post implied it was not necessary (I may have misunderstood though).

As for the recessed lights you will need some blocking on some type. Don't use blocking the same size as the ceiling joists as the heat generated from the lights will be confined into your blocking (versus the entire cavity).

After thinking about it again I don't think you'll need any around the fixtures unless you think it is not enough support.

 

[tjbnwi]

The recessed lights appear to be IC/AT recessed housings. They are designed to be cover with insulation, blocking next to them will have no affect on the lights.

You do not need blocking at the seams that fall between joists, the tongue and groove will hold the pieces in alignment. Often having a seam like this fall on a joist can cause alignment problems. As I said before, if you are not comfortable with the seam mid span, glue a piece of cut off ceiling on the back at the seams.

Tom

 

[HDClown]

Recessed can housings are IC rated (Cree RC6-12W), and the lights themselves are LED (Cree CR6).

My original plan was to have all butt joints land on a joist, as the measurements worked out where it should be very easy to make that happen. 

I have to run some numbers again, but I may have ordered enough extra tocut every 10' down to 8' and every 14' down to 12' and still have some extra.  This would let me work exclusively with 8'/12'/16', where all combinations add up to 32'.  It's a bit of a waste of product, but might be worth it.  Not sure if the math will work out yet.