Reducing noise & movement in floor, modern home

[JeremyH.]

Hi guys,

My floor is annoying [scared] . For example if I walk around while playing my vinyl setup, I hear it in the speakers because the floor likes to flex. Different areas of the home I can feel it, and it makes some things wobble.

The house was constructed in 2005 I think, maybe 2008. Pretty it's one story, has cement under the house. Floor from under appears like waffleboard on joists. I'm just not sure if they didn't screw down the flooring very well? Anyways there's new carpet on top so I'm looking for ideas on how to improve the flex issues without tearing it up.

Thanks

 

[Oldwood]

If the problem is the sheeting not fastened down properly you can sister up strips to the existing joists with PL premium or some other good mastic construction adhesive on the top and sides of the strips.

If the joists are not stiff enough you can add blocking between the joists to stiffen the floor up.

Or if you are the belt AND suspenders kind of guy you can do both [big grin]

Gerry

 

[JeremyH.]

PL, now that's what I wasn't thinking about! I had been debating how to screw into the floor boards... but PL works, maybe even too good.

I'm not 100% certain what's going on because it's too wet to get to the spots that are making the noise I can't stand anymore. I'm just planning ahead; and getting sick of hearing my foot steps when I listen to music.

 

[RustE]

Engineered joists or dimensional lumber for joists?

Have you considered these?http://www.rockler.com/squeeeeek-no-more-floor-squeak-repair-kit

 

[mwildt]

The no squeak screws does work, but can be tricky to install properly. With carpet it may be easier than hardwood flooring. Their issue is their 'strength' to snap when driven in. If you hit a knot then they can snap yet not completely seated. They did work for one stair issue I had.

Since you have carpet it wouldn't be too hard to take it up and fix the floor properly. I'd go that way than attempting to use the squeak screws. Fix it once kind of an approach. The issue could be many things as other folks posted. The subfloor wasn't glued or it wasn't screwed down enough. Could be but maybe the screws broke under load due to flex.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[JeremyH.]

I had no idea that existed [eek], maybe it'll be the easier way.

They're engineered, unfortunately.

 

[JeremyH.]

Should I be thinking about replacing some key engineered joists with lumber?  [crying]

Believe me, I didn't make the purchase!

 

[Holmz]

A torsion box is incredibly strong and stiff.
But it requires the factsheets to be well attached.
The flooring needs to be held down, and then if the bottom side is drywall then that is not as effective as ply.

But beams also work.

 

[Bob D.]

I used pocket screws to solve a problem with a squeak in a floor once. Squeak had always been there but they claimed that after they had carpet removed and a hardwood floor installed a couple years earlier that the squeak was louder and had become even more annoying.

There was access to the underside from the basement. I took a cheap aluminum pocket hole jig I had from many years ago and modified it by cutting off the clamp portion so I could place it up to the underside of the subfloor. Then after drilling the pocket hole I could secure the subfloor to the joist with the pocket screws.

View attachment 1

This would be time consuming to do over a large area but in this case it worked for the small area that I needed to fix which was in a bedroom and made a loud squeak anytime you walked over this one spot. So loud they claimed it would wake up someone sleeping which is why it needed to be eliminated.

My solution worked using what I had on hand. I like the Squeak-no-more product but never used it and in this case it would have meant installing from topside which they were not keen on putting holes in their recently installed floor.

It's been a few years and I haven't had a need to use it again but if I can find it I'll dig it out and show how I used it with a couple photos in this thread.

 

[rizzoa13]

If you can get to the underside you could take 2x 10 or so, cut it to be a tight fit between the joists, add adhesive on the top and tap it up to the current subfloor. Screw or toenail it into the joists and then use screws up from the bottom, through the block and up into the subfloor to clamp it down hard onto your block while the glue sets.

Do the whole floor if your really worried about it, it'll be a blast .

 

[antss]

Should I be thinking about replacing some key engineered joists with lumber?  [crying]

Believe me, I didn't make the purchase!

Nothing wrong with engineered lumber -in fact, it's often preferable to dimensional lumber because of the quality control it goes through.

The problem almost always stems from the engineer that does the specification on the floor system.  Which, is often the builder's "guy" at the limber yard.  The plans certainly have the floor system spelled out on them , but were tech followed , and was the design criteria sufficient? 

A floor system that's adequate for hardwood may be insufficient for a tile floor and THAT floor may not be strong enough for when the "boss" falls in love with that marble just like the spa has.

It boils down to bending.  The longer the span and more load (like stone tile , or pianos on the 3rd floor) - the stronger the joists need to be. This means taller joists and or shorter spans or both.  When Jeremy says his floor flexes - undersized joists are probably the culprit. The subfloor is a small component of the assembly, and no wonder product subfloor is gonna make up for undersized joist.  A poorly installed sub floor can be annoying which is why they are most often glued down in addition to nailed. The really attentive screw them down with glue, but most customers don't want to pay for that.

The blocking between the joists (or adding more) is going to do little to help Jeremy.
either.  Rizzoas plan will work- it's called sistering, but it's no fun and is a real pain and $$$ if you have mechanicals running through the joist .  I've never heard of it done on floors with engineered I-beams or web trusses, but I guess it's still doable.

You really need to take some measurements and then consult a span table to see what your dealing with to start.  Then suggestions can be made for remedies. The other bad news is fixing most of theses kinds of things properly involves making a mess, so give up the "not making a mess" notion early on.

 

[JeremyH.]

I found out a lot of contractors were fired during the building of this and the other homes in the area [eek]. As soon as it's not real wet under the house I'll be looking the situation closer. I've got lots of ideas from this thread now.

As soon as I'm under I'll check the span distances.

Thanks for the help thus far everyone.