removing 5000 sq ft of paint from clapboards

[ppaulthepainter]

What combination of festools should i purchase for this job? The old paint is not very thick maybe 3 coats.How many sq ft
of PAINT can i remove in a 10 hour day.Iwill be using a lift and not a ladder. thank you for your help

   

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Paul,

For clapboard, you'd be best served by the RAS 115 or RO 125 sanders. The RAS is gear-driven and aggressive all the time. The Rotex RO 125 can be switched between an aggressive mode and a random orbital mode, making it more versatile in the long run albeit at a higher price.  These sanders are 4½" and 5" respectively, which should match your clapboard pretty well.

The Rotex RO 90 would be a good complement if you have tight corners or smaller detailed areas to work in. Like the RO 125, it has an aggressive and random orbital mode but also adds the capability to use a 3½" round pad *or* a triangular pad. More info on the Rotex sanders at http://festoolrotex.com.

For paint applications, I generally recommend the CT MIDI HEPA Dust Extractor for it smaller footprint. That makes it easier to transport, even on the lift with you.

You can purchase the sander and CT dust extractor as a package and save a little money. Check with your preferred Festool dealer for details.

Regarding abrasives, I'd suggest that you go with Brilliant or Granat, which starts at 40 grit, or with Saphir if you have really stubborn stripping tasks, which starts as low as 24 grit. Saphir will be less likely to gum up. Try to prevent heat build up by keeping the sander moving and not applying pressuring to also help prevent paint gumming up the abrasive.

As for the amount of sqft you can cover, I'll leave that to other forum members to answer to run sanders all day and have more experience as I'm not a painter. Scott B may see the thread and have some first hand experience to handle.

Shane

RAS 115:

[attachimg=#]

RO 125

[attachimg=#]

RO 125 and CT MIDI

[attachimg=#]

RO 90

[attachimg=#]

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Oops, and welcome to the forum!  [big grin]

 

[Scott B.]

Hi Paul

Welcome to the FOG.

I am assuming clapboard siding with square stock cornerboards, fascia, soffet, standard type of package.

My experience on exterior prep and stripping is that the #1 tool for that is the RO90 because the 3 1/2" round head is just right for open road on claps (make sure nails are set) and it gives you the delta (triangle) attachment for corners and details. Plus, it is lightweight and easier to use on verticals for extended periods compared to many of its larger siblings.

I would supplement that with a RO125 for larger open road trim sanding. That combo and a whole bunch of low grit Granat abrasive attached to a midi extractor should put you in the 1000 sf per day range. Not a scientific calculation, and there are many variables, but for alot of that type of work, we are able to go 80 grit in one round for prep. Of course, it depends if the previous coats were primer/paint or stain (stain strips easier).

 

[greg mann]

Scott is surely the expert on this, IMO. I am curious that he did not reference the RAS 115, though. One thing nice about this sander is the lack of vibration since it is a true rotary and not an obit or random orbit sander. That said, it does require more attention because it can be very aggressive.

I am interested in Scott's take on this unit for the job described.

 

[Scott B.]

Scott is surely the expert on this, IMO. I am curious that he did not reference the RAS 115, though. One thing nice about this sander is the lack of vibration since it is a true rotary and not an obit or random orbit sander. That said, it does require more attention because it can be very aggressive.

I am interested in Scott's take on this unit for the job described.

Greg

My honest opinion, from having tried it, is that the RAS is very very effective for stripping. However, on verticals it is difficult to use it all day long, physically it just wears you out. It is also inferior to the entire Rotex line in dust extraction, in spite of the shroud.

It simply removes more material faster than even a CT can suck up.

That said, on horizontal surfaces such as decks (or interior floors), if the grit is to be below 60, the RAS will beat the snot out of the Rotexes all day long and it is very easy to handle in that orientation. And the fact that its a messy marvin is more tolerable horizontally because it is kicking up large chunks that don't go airborne.

If I only have to strip a couple of overhead garage doors or something, I will take the RAS and tolerate the mess and aggression in the interest of pure speed.

Its good to have so many effective option.

 

[tbellemare]

I'm thinking I'd do the bulk of the paint removal with a Planex and P 40 or P 60 Granat and a soft pad. Then I'd follow with a detailer, like the RO 90.

Am I missing something, Scott?

Tom

 

[AlexThePalex]

1000 sq feet per day?  You Americans are tough. I'd really have to push myself to get 350 sq ft stripped on a day. [embarassed]

Also wouldn't dream of doing it with a RO 90 alone. The bigger the better. With 5000 square feet waiting for me I'd go for the RAS 115 and a RO 150. Preferably even the RAS 180 or a belt sander, but unfortunately you can't get those in North America. First the RAS with 50 grit Saphir to strip all paint, then the Rotex 150 with 60/80 brilliant/granat to clean up and smooth it out to finish quality, and finally the RO 90 to do all the corners.  

 

[Scott B.]

I'm thinking I'd do the bulk of the paint removal with a Planex and P 40 or P 60 Granat and a soft pad. Then I'd follow with a detailer, like the RO 90.

Am I missing something, Scott?

Tom

Yes, we are on the outside of the house!  [big grin]

 

[tbellemare]

Does that really matter?

Tom

 

[Scott B.]

1000 sq feet per day?  [blink] Wow, you Americans are tough. I'd really have to push myself to get 350 sq ft stripped on a day. [embarassed]

Also wouldn't dream of doing it with a RO 90 alone. The bigger the better. With 5000 square feet waiting for me I'd go for the RAS 115 and a RO 150. Preferably even the RAS 180 or a belt sander, but unfortunately you can't get those in North America. First the RAS with 50 grit Saphir to strip all paint, then the Rotex 150 with 60/80 brilliant/granat to clean up and smooth it out to finish quality, and finally the RO 90 to do all the corners.  

Yes, 1000 sf in a day is reasonable. A guy would have to average a 10x10 square for 10 hours to achieve that. It is doable. Especially since he is not suffering from claw hand by wielding too heavy of a sander. RAS is great for the first two hours or so on vertical. After that, production takes a nose dive.

Most clap reveals here are 3-5", and we all know what happens when the sander is too big for the surface.

I don't know if you sand whole houses or not. We do several per year, with many painters from season to season. So, what I am sharing here are observations based on those experiences.

Fortunately, most people don't sand 8-10 hours a day in rough removal.

On the abrasive side, and again this is a reflection of the reality that I do this day in and day out all day long, one line of abrasive...granat. Much easier to inventory, stock and create consistency from job to job and crew to crew. Other lines can do certain things better here and there, but across the grits for paint sanding, granat does the best for us in the variety of situations we encounter.

 

[Scott B.]

Does that really matter?

Tom

As I mentioned to Alex, the original poster is stripping clapboard.

When the sander is bigger than the surface being sanded, the extraction suffers greatly. Too much dust goes airborne.

If the exterior walls were a flat smooth surface, you may be onto something.

 

[Scott B.]

Yes, 1000 sf in a day is reasonable. A guy would have to average a 10x10 square for 10 hours to achieve that. It is doable. Especially since he is not suffering from claw hand by wielding too heavy of a sander. RAS is great for the first two hours or so on vertical. After that, production takes a nose dive.

Most clap reveals here are 3-5", and we all know what happens when the sander is too big for the surface.

I don't know if you sand whole houses or not. We do several per year, with many painters from season to season. So, what I am sharing here are observations based on those experiences.

Fortunately, most people don't sand 8-10 hours a day in rough removal.

On the abrasive side, and again this is a reflection of the reality that I do this day in and day out all day long, one line of abrasive...granat. Much easier to inventory, stock and create consistency from job to job and crew to crew. Other lines can do certain things better here and there, but across the grits for paint sanding, granat does the best for us in the variety of situations we encounter.

You might want to check your math there. 10x10 is only 100 square feet.

10x100 is 1000 sq ft in one day? I can't see that being possible with one person. But more power to you if you think so.

10x10 square per hour for 10 hours = 1000 sf in a day. I think.  [blink]

 

[Scott B.]

Stripping is a production game, guys.

It is similar to some production aspects in carpentry.

If you set up to do nothing but rip plywood all day, you are going to rip alot of plywood in a day. Its one set up, one task, all day long. To do this, or anything, for a living, it has to be that way. That is why it is critical to know that the tools you are using are also capable of the quality standard desired during all that production.

 

[tbellemare]

My mistake, Scott...

When I looked at Shane's images above, my mind was thinking shiplap.

I completely agree that clapboard requires a smaller sander, normally... We have a lot of 12" clapboard here with 10" plus reveal.

Tom

EDIT:
I'm curious how you and your crew would attack that sort of siding?

 

[mastercabman]

If the paint is flaking/peeling off I would look at a pressure washer first.

 

[tbellemare]

+1

Tom

 

[AlexThePalex]

Yes, 1000 sf in a day is reasonable. A guy would have to average a 10x10 square for 10 hours to achieve that. It is doable. Especially since he is not suffering from claw hand by wielding too heavy of a sander. RAS is great for the first two hours or so on vertical. After that, production takes a nose dive.

I'm starting to think you guys must be using water paint. I could never do such an area in 1 hour, let alone keep at it for 10 hours straight. Our oil based paints are simply too hard and thick for that.    

Most clap reveals here are 3-5", and we all know what happens when the sander is too big for the surface.

I use the RO 150 and RAS 115 for such jobs. With the RO 150 dust extraction is still very good. The RAS is messier indeed, but the time won is more important. People don't want to hear a job is going to cost them 50% more because you need your time with a smaller sander.  

I don't know if you sand whole houses or not. We do several per year, with many painters from season to season. So, what I am sharing here are observations based on those experiences.

Wooden houses are extremely rare here, everything is made of stone. But we do have garden sheds and "temporary" wooden cabins that then stay up for decades, so large wooden surfaces do come up once in a while.

On the abrasive side, and again this is a reflection of the reality that I do this day in and day out all day long, one line of abrasive...granat. Much easier to inventory, stock and create consistency from job to job and crew to crew. Other lines can do certain things better here and there, but across the grits for paint sanding, granat does the best for us in the variety of situations we encounter.

I can understand the need to make it not too complicated in a company with many employees. But I've noticed a serious time gain using for instance Saphir 50 over Granat 40 to strip paint with the Rotex. Saphir is simply that much sharper and lasts a lot longer. Like 10 or 20 times longer. So for me the choice is easily made. I am really glad there are so many choices in Festool's sandpaper line up, so I can get the optimal one for every situation.  
 

 

[Scott B.]

My mistake, Scott...

When I looked at Shane's images above, my mind was thinking shiplap.

I completely agree that clapboard requires a smaller sander, normally... We have a lot of 12" clapboard here with 10" plus reveal.

Tom

EDIT:
I'm curious how you and your crew would attack that sort of siding?

Tom

No worries, its a fun discussion.

On wider surfaces, usually cupping comes into play. Its a tough call sometimes. On 1x6 stock, moving from a 5" sander to a 6" inch sander can double production. That is if everything is smooth, as in prefinish sanding of new stock.

Weathered exterior surfaces are often cupped, in which case the 5" is the better call. In spite of interface pads and every other accessory or option.

It is always situational. I am usually the one outfitting our crews for projects, because I am the estimator and I know how I priced and what I had in mind for production.

That said, I have to think in blocks of time, specifically about the surfaces at hand. I sent us out today to strip and refinish countertops with a ETS150/5 and a DTS on a midi with grits from 60-320. Are there several other combos that could work there? Sure. Its about getting to the result in the fastest way.

To your question, without seeing a picture, I would be inclined to do shiplap with RO150's and 125's most likely.

I have always found it is better to be slightly undersized than slightly oversized in sanding, because of extraction. As soon as extraction is compromised, so are abrasives, which means guys are stopping more frequently to change them, which is costing time and money. The idea is not to have to stop.

In the 1000 sf example in this thread...if my goal is to do 1000 sf in a day, I would rather pound it out in 6 hours so I am looking personally for the best way to do 167 sf per hour and be done with it.

 

[Scott B.]

Yes, 1000 sf in a day is reasonable. A guy would have to average a 10x10 square for 10 hours to achieve that. It is doable. Especially since he is not suffering from claw hand by wielding too heavy of a sander. RAS is great for the first two hours or so on vertical. After that, production takes a nose dive.

I'm starting to think you guys must be using water paint. I could never do such an area in 1 hour, let alone keep at it for 10 hours straight. Our oil based paints are simply too hard and thick for that.    

Most clap reveals here are 3-5", and we all know what happens when the sander is too big for the surface.

I use the RO 150 and RAS 115 for such jobs. With the RO 150 dust extraction is still very good. The RAS is messier indeed, but the time won is more important. People don't want to hear a job is going to cost them 50% more because you need your time with a smaller sander.  

I don't know if you sand whole houses or not. We do several per year, with many painters from season to season. So, what I am sharing here are observations based on those experiences.

Wooden houses are extremely rare here, everything is made of stone. But we do have garden sheds and "temporary" wooden cabins that then stay up for decades, so large wooden surfaces do come up once in a while.

On the abrasive side, and again this is a reflection of the reality that I do this day in and day out all day long, one line of abrasive...granat. Much easier to inventory, stock and create consistency from job to job and crew to crew. Other lines can do certain things better here and there, but across the grits for paint sanding, granat does the best for us in the variety of situations we encounter.

I can understand the need to make it not too complicated in a company with many employees. But I've noticed a serious time gain using for instance Saphir 50 over Granat 40 to strip paint with the Rotex. Saphir is simply that much sharper and lasts a lot longer. Like 10 or 20 times longer. So for me the choice is easily made. I am really glad there are so many choices in Festool's sandpaper line up, so I can get the optimal one for every situation.  
 

Thanks for the explanation, Alex. Alot of our perceived differences are probably geographic differences in materials that we encounter. Waterborne and latex paints are much more prevalant here, and most houses we paint are wood. I agree, oil paint stripping is a different beast. When we encounter it on trim, if it is intact, we don't remove it. We scuff sand, apply a bond coat and convert to latex.