RO 150 or RAS 115.04 E

[jspicer1010]

New Festool owner here. I am trying to decide between purchasing the Rotex 150 or the RAS 115. I am going to be sanding the deck and cabin on a fiberglass boat for painting.  I have been reading a lot of previous posts and it seems that RAS 115 may be way too aggressive for fiberglass prep. The deck has a moulded  non-skid pattern which must be sanded smooth. I am leaning towards the RO 150 but want to be sure it will do the job. I have the ETS 150/3 for sanding between coats.

Thanks
John

 

[Brice Burrell]

I don't have much experience sanding fiberglass  but I'd think the RAS 115 would be too much. The RO150 may be a better choice and it's the more versatile sander.

 

[peter halle]

John,

I haven't had experience using the Festools with fiberglass either, but I do own both the sanders under consideration, and in my previous experience I did do fiberglass repairs at a Boston Wheeler dealer in FL.  These sanders are two different animals completely.  The Ras 115 is basically an adjustable speed rotary sander - a disk sander.  It will a rough surface  - the surface may not be in good enough condition to be ready for paint.  It will grind down that molded non skid surface and will collect some of the dust to boot if used with dust collection.  The RO 150 will also grind it down albeit slower and then you can change it in the less aggressive mode and continue like a dual action sander.  Dust collection will also be better.  Additionally the pad size is bigger on the RO 150 so you will have fewer dips, etc.  I worry that you will be disappointed with the final finish of the RAS 115 and will still need to get anowther sander.  Go with the RO 150.

Just my two cents worth.

Peter

 

[Brice Burrell]

Peter, I'd agree the 115 is going to leave a rough finish but he does already have the ETS 150 to smooth the surface before paint.

 

[peter halle]

Brice,

OOPS.  Missed that stupidly.  I'd still go with the RO 150 in agressive mode with courser grit unless I knew that I had a future use for the RAS 115.

Peter

 

[tbellemare]

John:

There are 3 Festool sanders with round pads that are designed to be used agressively, the Rotex 150, the Rotex 125, and the RAS 115. Here are their side-to-side comparisons:

[attachimg=#1]

If you look at it from the standpoint of material removal over a large area, the Rotex 150 wins the battle for time and the RAS 115 comes in second. The Rotex 150 is also a really good finishing sander and a polisher plus it has almost total dust collection.

I'm trying to present an unbiased way to look at how many grains of abrasive material are going by any given spot over time and marry that with the area being covered to show how effective a tool is at removing material. I think my logic is sound???

Tom

 

[AlexThePalex]

Being a non-native English speaker I had to google a bit to understand what a non-skid moulded floor pattern is, but if it is what it says here: http://www.boatbuilding.net/article.pl?sid=06/01/24/181242 then I think it will be a tough job to do with the RO 150. Yes the RO 150 is a fine machine but it can do only so much, and not all.

I got a couple of old painted MDF plates for free from a neighbour and I thought, lets strip them blank with the RO 150, but seriously, it's a VERY hard job. It was like 20 square meters or so, and I've been sanding away at them for quite some hours already and I'm still not finished, haven't done half of it. Even in rotary mode and with 40 grit Crystal paper. The machine works fast when you do smaller pieces but when you have a large area to do you'll find it's not a stroll in the park.   

Since you got the ETS 150/3 you can use that one for finishing and use a more aggressive tool like the RAS 115 to remove the rough surface. By the way, I don't know if the machine is also available in the US (if you're from the US, don't know), but there's even a RAS 180 model that is meant for large surfaces.

On the website I mentioned they don't even use a sander to remove the non-skid mould but a router. From the picture it seems to leave a pretty smooth surface. You might consider just renting one of those and finish with your ETS 150/3 instead of buying an expensive sander that would still leave you a lot of hard work to do.

 

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I work on boats and I have both the RO 150 and the RAS 115 (and the CT22).  As has been noted they are different beasts.  I wouldn't be without either of them.  The RAS 115 is by far the more aggessive tool.  It is like a grinder.  I have used it to grind the bevels in the hull for patching an old thru-hull hole.  It handled that as well as my Makita 4-1/2" grinder but managed to collect 85% of the dust.  I grind a bevel on the inside and the outside for the patch.  With the Makita the I would have to suite up in my fresh air breather and the boat would fill with dust.  With the RAS 115 I worked in a respirator and collected most of the dust.  The boat stayed clean.  The stuff that didn't get collected was mostly the larger chips not the fine dust.  Once you get used to using the rotating shroud the dust collection is excellent. 

I did a very complete bottom job and the 115 was essential.  I got it after I realized the RO 150 was not really up to the serious material removal I needed to do.  And the variable speed means you can throttle back to be more careful.  Sandpaper life is surprisingly good as there are no air holes to keep it cool like on the RO 150.  The RO 150 is better at dust collection.  Darn close to 100%.  And for finish sanding it is excellent.  I did an epoxy barrier coat and used the RO 150 to scuff the epoxy surface for bottom paint.  I took a scotch brite, cut it in a circle and stuck it right on the pad.  Worked great. 

Also, I went down to 36 and even 24 grit on the RAS 115.  It seems like 24 grit is basically the same as 36 after about one minute so I don't see much point in getting 24 for this sort of work. 

So bottom line, I need both.  They are largely mutually exclusive in application. 

Dan Pfeiffer

 

[monte]

John,

I just rush / read the thread as I have a full day of work that I need to get to, so here's my quick 2 cents........

I have a fair amount of experience with fiberglass as well as the fiberglass tooling that's used to make parts large and small.

I have all the sanders we are talking about as well as the older RO150 (without the quick plug)

In doing what you are about to embark on, I wouldn't consider using my ras 115.

and if your considering not using a vac - don't even think about it - get one!!

In your case I would get the RO150 with an assortment of pads as discussed above.

ps. with the RAS on fiberglass I would be very concerned about burning through the fiberglass gelcoat.

for those not into fiberglass, the gelcoat is the outerlayer ( or first layer applied into the form when making a f-glass part).

.....after the gel coat goes the actual fibers (glass strands or matting) mixed with resin.

.....and it's usually within the gel coat that the color resides.

gotta run,

cheers.....

Roger

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Alex,
Hey, it's interesting that boatbuilding came up, and that you mention the boatbuilding.net Web site.  I interviewed people at Rick Waters Boat Builders in Groton, CT, a while back and wrote up an extensive story about their tool usage, which Festool posted on their Web site.

I just saw that an excerpt of my article was reposted on the boatbuilding.net site, which is really exciting (I had a lot of fun meeting and speaking with Rick Waters).  Here it is:
http://www.boatbuilding.net/article.pl?sid=06/01/17/193229&mode=thread

When I spent the day with Rick Waters and his crew, I saw the way they use Festool tools.  And we spoke about fiberglass hulls.  They used the Rotex, but not the RAS.

I'm not a boatbuilder, but I would say that if you're concerned about debris and dust collection, opt for the Rotex.  If you want really fast material removal, but are not as concerned about debris/dust removal, opt for the RAS.

The RAS is fast -- really fast.  But it take some practice to get it to pick up enough debris.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Brice Burrell]

I work on boats.......

Dan Pfeiffer

Dan, do you happen to have any pictures of some the work you've done. Shots of the work as it progresses would be nice to see. I'm just curious to see how this works.

 

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Here is a link to photos of the bottom job I was talking about.  This was a big job with removal of an old and failing barrier coat, repair of old blister fill that was falling out, filling and fairing, new barrier coat (8 coats of West System epoxy) and bottom paint.  The old barrier coat was not adhering and flaking off in places.  I removed it with a peeler.  Basically a power planer with depth adjusting shoulders on either side of the blade.  I used a dremel to grind out the bad fill in old blister repairs and the Festool 150 and 115 for all the general sanding.  I filled deep blisters with thickened West epoxy using their 406 silica filler.  This stuff is like concrete.  I wanted the strength in deeper holes.  Where I didn't get it smooth I had so sand it back.  The RO 150 was not really up to that in any reasonable time.  The RAS 115 had no trouble.  The variable speed on it makes it a lot more useful than my 10,000 RPM makita.  That's just too fast for this sort of stuff.  I only keep that for cutting metal with the cut-off wheels.  Throttling back the 115 improves dust collection and handling too.  That's a really big deal.  The RAS 115 is 3000 rpm if I recall correctly.  RO 150 is about 600?  Like I said before the RO 150 and RAS 115 are basically mutually exclusive in application.  Very little if any crossover.  The finish sanding quality of the RO 150 is fantastic.  The RAS 115 is not a finishing tool.  If I only had one for the bottom work it would be the 115.  In general the RO 150 is probably more versatile.  It's just not a brute like the 115. 

Here's the link:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/bottom.htm
This is the progression of the bottom work and not really meant to show the tools at work but you'll get some idea. 

Dan Pfeiffer

 

[Brice Burrell]

....Here's the link:
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/bottom.htm
This is the progression of the bottom work and not really meant to show the tools at work but you'll get some idea. 

Dan Pfeiffer

Thanks Dan. It looks like fairly unpleasant work but I guess you do end up with a boat that will float right.