Ron Bontz Tenon Saw

Joined
Dec 18, 2010
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129
This is my new baby! Handle is in Pink Ivory, she has mother of pearl saw nuts and a sculpted spine. There is about 3" under spine.
Enjoy!!![attachimg=1]View attachment 2[attachimg=2][attachimg=3][attachimg=4]
 

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Is it really a saw, or a display piece to be exhibited on top of the fireplace mantle?  This is kind of like Ferrari or Lamborghini cars.  Owners do not drive them to and from work or shopping or vacation.  They are only driven on Sunday afternoons on untraveled roads and sunny days in the summer when it is precisely 78.39 degrees Fahrenheit and a slight breeze out of the south.  Otherwise they are locked up in the garage in the dark with a soft cotton or silk cover over them.
 
Looks great!  They are works of art for the price!  I have been considering one.  I love the fact that Ron works well with his customers to really customize a saw.
I'd be interested if work as well as they look.  In terms of cut quality and tooth geometry.  Does anyone have any experience with Bontz vs. Lie Nielsen vs. Bad Axe or anything along those lines?
 
This one does the same job and it's nice and cheap.
300-14-F15.jpg
 
Yes your right....It might do the same job, but the journey using a plastic handled disposable saw is not the same.  But I take your point...
 
Not really the same, A well sharpened cross or rip cut saw cuts much better and faster and once that 'plastic fantastic' is blunt its a bin job. I have saws 80 years old that still cut like a dream. I can understand the perception if you have never used quality tools but once you have a few you would never consider those cheepies for anything more than cutting 'dirty' wood or other tough materials.
 
Lemwise said:
This one does the same job and it's nice and cheap.
300-14-F15.jpg

In an earlier post, this was your description of using the Rupes sander, as compared to the Festool DTS400.
 
So today I sanded an aft cabin with the Rupes and I definitely prefer it over the Festool DTS400. The suction on the Rupes combined with the filter works great and the filter also acts as a handle for your other hand giving you more control. The Rupes also runs smoother and leaves a noticeably better finish.

Considering the intricate details you included in your sander comparison, I'm confused by your comparison of the two saws; the "custom fitted" Ron Bontz (you send in your hand dimensions for the custom handle), vs. the plastic moulded, mass produced, and inexpensive throw-away.  But then, perhaps sanding is your profession, while using a saw is more of an occasional event, and you simply have never had the opportunity to use a fine, well built hand saw, that cuts wood like butter. 

You should seek out an opportunity to try a custom hand built saw sometime, as I think you would be pleasantly surprised by how much you like it. 
 
When I was learning "the trades", one of the earliest builders I worked for was a Swede. He had many innovative ideas that i observed and later on used for my own benefit.  One word of advice he gave me was to always use good tools. "It seems so silly to buy junk when ya can do much better work when you use the best."  He had only Sandvick hand saws.  For years I bought only Sandvick.  However, those seemed to have legs and always disappeared from my toolbox.  My Diston's always stayed right where I left them.  I'm glad I no longer find myself working on big jobs and no longer take my good tools out of my shop.  I no longer have to worry about my wandering tools and it would be nice to find a saw like the above had somehow wandered into my shop.  ::)
Tinker
 
McNally Family said:
But then, perhaps sanding is your profession, while using a saw is more of an occasional event, and you simply have never had the opportunity to use a fine, well built hand saw, that cuts wood like butter.

Uh, no... I'm a professional joiner and I make complete interiors and do exterior woodwork on steel yachts. I also do teak decks and I've made many wooden boats so I know a thing or 2 about hand tools. It's the geometry of the teeth that determine how well a saw cuts, not how expensive it is. Give me any old saw, a file and I will give you a saw that leaves a cut that's as smooth as a babies bottom.
 
Lemwise said:
Uh, no... I'm a professional joiner and I make complete interiors and do exterior woodwork on steel yachts. I also do teak decks and I've made many wooden boats so I know a thing or 2 about hand tools. It's the geometry of the teeth that determine how well a saw cuts, not how expensive it is. Give me any old saw, a file and I will give you a saw that leaves a cut that's as smooth as a babies bottom.

[member=60576]Lemwise[/member]
So you're saying that once that Bahco hard point you posted becomes old and useless, you're going to be able to sharpen it effectively?  That will be interesting to see.  Perhaps that's what you're after--the validation from others that you're a terrific craftsman.
Look, the original Point of the thread as I Saw it (you see what I did there...)  was that some dude wanted to share a fine tool piece with the others.  It's unfortunate that some have not been able to make enough "scratch", working for "the man", to buy some of the finer things in life, but whose fault is that?  Supercilious attitudes are common on all these forums--it's part of human nature I guess.
I did enjoy looking at some of the fine work you posted, but I guess the chip on your shoulder makes it difficult to appreciate the person behind it.
 
teocaf said:
So you're saying that once that Bahco hard point you posted becomes old and useless, you're going to be able to sharpen it effectively?
Of course not, it has hard point teeth. And that's the whole point of the saw, you use it in a production environment and when it's dull you toss it away and buy a new one. Sharpening a saw costs more than buying a new one.

And I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I just don't get why especially in the US woodworkers seem to place so much value on high end tools. I see it on every US woodworking forum, people buy the most expensive hand tools because without them they can't achieve a perfect result (or so they think). Well, you know what? If you need a hand plane or chisels costing hundreds of dollars to achieve perfection, you're not a craftsman. But hey, that's just my opinion.
 
Lemwise said:
teocaf said:
So you're saying that once that Bahco hard point you posted becomes old and useless, you're going to be able to sharpen it effectively?
Of course not, it has hard point teeth. And that's the whole point of the saw, you use it in a production environment and when it's dull you toss it away and buy a new one. Sharpening a saw costs more than buying a new one.

And I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I just don't get why especially in the US woodworkers seem to place so much value on high end tools. I see it on every US woodworking forum, people buy the most expensive hand tools because without them they can't achieve a perfect result (or so they think). Well, you know what? If you need a hand plane or chisels costing hundreds of dollars to achieve perfection, you're not a craftsman. But hey, that's just my opinion.

[member=60576]Lemwise[/member] I really think it's poor form to criticise people for liking and enjoying expensive hand crafted tools. There's no difference between the time shown on a Timex and a Rolex, but I'd certainly enjoy the Rolex more .. and so would a lot of people.

If you do have a criticism, level it at the tool or the tool manufacturer.

If a person can afford something and enjoys it there is no reason to single them out for their passion simply because it has a different value set to your own.
 
I have my computer set to bring up Festoy FOG site everytime i plug into Safari. It is interesting that the first three sites that showed on my "Replies" were about tiny details.
This site is all about the not so tiny details of owning, and using a fine tool for mundane practices, or not using such a fine tool to accomplish a fine result.

The first site was all about making a fine cabinet and achieving a very fine result with the addition of the tiniest part in the design.  That tiny little triangle just set the whole design into a whole new dimension of appeal.

The second project on the list was all about a tool cabinet.  It could well have been a run of the mill wooden cabinet to hold tools, but the artist in the craftsman came out in the final touch of how carefully he made those tiny little tool holders. He did not need to be so careful, but the care in fitting and placement of the tools set that tool box into a great new dimension of eye appeal as well as practicality.

It is the tiny little details that have a tendency to set off every project.  I have not arrived at the design abbility to really set off my wood projects, but I often had a lot of fun with my masonry projects along the way.  There were the projects that were copies of so many other projects.  They were the projects that we did time after time and we made money.  Not much as far as the memories were concerned. Every now and then. I would have the honor to build something where I had free riegn to add little bits and pieces to to the design.  I had fun with those projects.  Not as much profit in the build maybe, but the fun was in the finished piece with the little extra details and the enjoyment shown by the customer. 

And, by the way, even with such a backbreaking job as masonry, I bought some very fine tools.  Nobody ever knew that WHS and JTS trowels cost a little bit more than a Rose or a Marshaltown.  They were top of the line.  Nobody could tell by looking at the tools after they had been used for so many repetitions and so many cleanings.  They were only flat pices of metal with wooden handles that were used to change the location and/or form of a very gloppy type of material in combination with very hard and, by themselves, uninteresting blocky types of units together into an interesting form.  Those fine tools that I used, even tho of greater expense, did add to the over all profit in that I could increase my production to a point well beyond the added cost of he tools.  Because I could increase production and come out ahead on the bottom line with my estimates, I could afford those tiny little extras that added enjoyment for both myself, but the more important customer.  In this case, the craftsman has, I am sure, increased his enjoyment in owning and displaying a very fine Bontz saw.  If he enjoys using the tool (I wish my own skills were at a level where i could afford such a saw and put it to good use and add the enjoyment for others that that saw might make possible for me to do the little extras), I am sure it adds to the qualty of finished project. Ohers who have chimed in have either recognised, or not recognised the value of enjoyment in using fine tools. 

For those who can use the cheapest tools to do fine craftsmanship, I applaud them as well.  One of the finest crafsmaen I have worked with often used makeshift tools to arrive at very fine results. One of the tools he used that impressed me was the use of a simple piece of scrap wood with a big headed nail in the end.  With a small file, he shaped the head of the nail and with that throw-away tool, he would create the very finest beading to match architecture of a very old (pre 1776) house.  He made other tools for use on the same job that sometimes headed to the scrap heap when finished, but the craftsmanship was exquisit.
Tinker
 
Lemwise said:
And I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I just don't get why especially in the US woodworkers seem to place so much value on high end tools. I see it on every US woodworking forum, people buy the most expensive hand tools because without them they can't achieve a perfect result (or so they think). Well, you know what? If you need a hand plane or chisels costing hundreds of dollars to achieve perfection, you're not a craftsman. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Yeah, [member=60576]Lemwise[/member] I'm on those same forums and I'm not seeing what you describe.  I'm not seeing people claiming to be great craftsmen (with the exception of present company), or saying they NEED those fine tools.  Maybe it's just the way I'm reading--taking people at face value and not injecting my biases and attributing them as their thoughts, putting words in people's mouths', etc.  What I DO see is people celebrating fine tools with others that are interested in them, very much like Sandor Nagyszalanczy did in his book "The Art of Fine Tools".  What I DO see is people celebrating the craftsmanship of makers like Ron Bontz by supporting their output with their hard earned disposable income.  I hope they continue to post because I find it very interesting and informative. 
I would welcome a discussion on fine craftsmanship as long as it's not rooted in derision.  But it probably won't happen here and now--this is just some different fellows talking past each other.

Losing interest, gasping for air...must find interesting discussion quickly, before brain fades from lack of stimulation.....
 
I see similar types of discussions on Digital Photography Review.

One type of discussion is amateurs not understanding the needs of professional photographers and making fun of very expensive high end equipment.

Another type of discussion is similar to this thread where people who chose to spend money on very expensive equipment that they do not use professionally are challenged regarding their choices. You can read the same discussions about expensive cars and watchs etc.

 
Compare it to watching an auction house sell a 20 million dollar painting.  Does the buyer really need a 20 million dollar painting?  There are cheaper paintings available, even prints for pennies on the dollar (that when ripped, you can just throw away). 

The art buyer pays 20 million dollars for a painting because he wants to, can, and will enjoy it the rest of his life.  Who would I be to question that?
 
I do not see it as having anything to do with the quality of the work produced by the tool as any saw will cut wood. It is the tradsman/craftsman that makes the tool produce good results not the type of tool. For me it is the idea that these tools are not disposable, no one would throw that saw away no matter how ignorant they are of our passion for our work. I have spent stupid amounts of money on my Lie-Nielsen planes, my custom set of moulding planes from NHT Gordon have been well used and are invaluable in reproducing mouldings, but it is the old secondhand tools I value the most. They have stories, former owners names stamped in them and some of the braces i have seem to be unique because they are transition stock from Miller Falls to Sogard production change and some have both marks. I would like to think I will care for these tools and pass them on to someone else who has a passion for creating beauty from raw materials. This is the essence of why I chose festool tools over cheap 'home' brand. To have the same philosophy with my tools as my workmanship, Made for more than a lifetime.
 
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