Rotex Sanders

[Tom D]

I am considering the purchase of a Rotex sander. The first project will be to sand the old finish off of some 45 year old cherry  kitchen cabinets in place. They have solid face frames with plywood sides.
My questions are:
1. 5" or 6",  I have an ETS125 with the 5" sanding disc kit so I am leaning towards the RO125 so I don't have to buy more discs. (is this thinking crazy)
2. Do they handle differently?
3. How careful do I need to be sanding the veneer?

Thanks, Tom

 

[Chuck Kiser]

I am considering the purchase of a Rotex sander. The first project will be to sand the old finish off of some 45 year old cherry  kitchen cabinets in place. They have solid face frames with plywood sides.
My questions are:
1. 5" or 6",  I have an ETS125 with the 5" sanding disc kit so I am leaning towards the RO125 so I don't have to buy more discs. (is this thinking crazy)
2. Do they handle differently?
3. How careful do I need to be sanding the veneer?

Thanks, Tom

The thought to use the same size paper is a good one. Consumables are spendy. A Rotax sander for this application may be overkill. First, they can be harder to control on vertical surfaces. Secondly, if all your doing is removing the finish on old boxes your ETS125 will do the job nicely.

On a positive note, the veneer on older plywood is usually thicker than the newer ply. This gives you more room to 'play' with the sander to get the best results. However, once you have sanded thru the veneer you are are stuck. It will very difficult to repair the damage and have it look good in stain grade. Be most careful at the edges of the ply when sanding. This is where most of the sanding damage can occur due to a slight 'tipping' of the sander.

 

[Holzhacker]

I have an ETS125 and think it will do just fine on the cabinets. I don't have a Rotex but from everything I have read/heard agree that it might be overkill. I would suggest getting a DS400 or DX93 instead. Either one would probably make detailing corners much easier and help the overall project. I have a DS400 and am fairly happy with it. I wouldn't rave about it as a great sander but it gets the job done when needed.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Tom, unless you have deep pockets don't look at this purchase from the perspective of one project. Look closely at your needs and see if a Rotex sander fits them. Festool makes a lot of other sanders that might better fit your needs, and make this project easier. For example, the RTS400 or one of the delta shaped sanders would reach the cabinet corners nicely. Your ETS125 will do the job, especially on the veneer. I'd try brilliant 80 to start.  

Now looking at the Rotex sanders since this is what your question is all about. There is a big difference between the two Rotex sanders. I have the RO125 and I wouldn't dare use it on the veneer ply (I'm sure there are some guys out there that would disagree with that statement). There is a learning curve to using the RO sanders, more so with the 125. The elongated body makes balancing the sander (holding it perfectly flat) harder than regular random orbit sanders. Some people pick up the technique quickly while some never get the hang of it. I used the RO150 a couple of times. I found it easier to handle because of the greater surface area of the larger diameter sanding pad. Bottom line, the Rotex sanders give you aggressive sanding and polishing that your ETS 125 won't. But be ready for a learning curve, and the veneer ply isn't the place to work out that curve. Good luck.

 

[Neill]

Tom,

I agree with the others that the Rotex would probably be overkill.  The 125 you have would probably work with the proper abrasive and some patience on your part because of its relatively nonaggressive nature.  I tend to use mine as a finish sander and as a between coats sander.

Neill

 

[Brice Burrell]

Tom,

.....The 125 you have would probably work with the proper abrasive and some patience on your part because of its relatively nonaggressive nature......

Neill

Yeah, the right abrasive and being a bit patience is going to be the key with the ETS125. This can't be stressed enough.

Oh, I for got to add this to my first reply. Be sure to check out the Rotex sanders in person before you buy. The size and feel of them isn't for everyone.

Warning slightly off topic: I wish Festool made an ETS 125/5. With a larger stroke and a few more amps of power it would be a nice sander that could remove material faster. It would be perfect for a project like Tom's. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I am considering the purchase of a Rotex sander. The first project will be to sand the old finish off of some 45 year old cherry  kitchen cabinets in place. They have solid face frames with plywood sides.
My questions are:
1. 5" or 6",  I have an ETS125 with the 5" sanding disc kit so I am leaning towards the RO125 so I don't have to buy more discs. (is this thinking crazy)
2. Do they handle differently?
3. How careful do I need to be sanding the veneer?

Thanks, Tom

1 - Like Brice said, unless money has no meaning for you, you shouldn't decide about a Rotex for one specific job. And I'd like to add that you also shouldn't think about discs you already have. Because unless you got a huge supply of discs already lying around, every disc you use has to be replaced eventually. And then it doesn't matter much if you buy a new 125mm disc or a 150mm one.

But regarding discs ........ you do know there's a whole lot more choice for the 150 than for the 125? That's worth considering. The 150 will leave you with more options. In general, I would advise the 150 over the 125 to everyone.

2 - A big lack in my knowledge, unfortunately, is that I have never had a chance to use the RO125 yet. But I doubt I would notice much difference in the way they handle. Except that the 125 needs a bit less muscle to deal with. 

3 - How careful? One word: very. Unless you really know what you're doing, a Rotex would not be the pest choice for this job. An ETS, DTS or RTS sander would perhaps be a better choice for this.
 

Warning slightly off topic: I wish Festool made an ETS 125/5. With a larger stroke and a few more amps of power it would be a nice sander that could remove material faster. It would be perfect for a project like Tom's. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

Would like to see that too. I still want to add a 125mm sander to my line up but honestly, I think neither the RO125 nor the ETS125 are really suitable for me. The RO125 would have too much overlap with the RO150 I already have and the ETS125 simply seems a bit too underpowered for me with its 200 watt. Before I got my Rotex I had a 125mm ETS150-like sander by B&D with 330 watts of power. I would love to see (and have) a Festool 125mm sander with the model, body and power of the ETS150. This would be the perfect match to fill the gap in my collection.
 
Unfortunately, I am looking at other brands at this moment for this type of sander. That would mean I'd have to say goodbye to the excellent Festoolian dust collection and the excellent sanding paper. That would really be a shame.

Btw, I just figured, would it be possible to fit the existing ETS150 with an ETS125 disc? Anybody has any ideas?

 

[tDot]

I'm a big fan of the 150mm sanders, I have both the ETS 150/3 and the RO150.  I tried the 125 model in both sanders, and for me, I just didnt enjoy their balance or feel.  I regularly use the Rotex in the finishing mode, often in situations where I want a little more power then the ETS 150/3 has, but not the aggression of the full rotary mode.  I use it like this from stripping of finishes right through to finishing.  I've read that this is the same as the ETS 150/5. 

Would the RO125 in finish mode, not be the same as a ETS 125/5, if there was such a sander?

What type of finish are you sanding off?  If it is a simple varnish, then one of the smaller Festool sanders might be better (RTS400 or DTS400), however, if it is old nasty paint then you might be better off with one of the Rotex's (my vote is for the RO150) and maybe the Deltex for corners.  I would use Crystal paper, starting at either 80 or 100, depending on how thick the existing finish is.

 

[Tom D]

Thanks for all of the feedback.
I am going to start with the ETS125 tomorrow and see how it works. I might look into the DTS400 to get in the corners and inside edges.
I will keep you posted.

Thanks, Tom

 

[Tom D]

OK, the ETS125 with 80grit brilliant worked well removing the finish. Which sander will work better for removing the finish to the corners the fastest, DTS400 or the RTS400? Which of the two is the most aggressive?

Thanks, Tom

 

[Brice Burrell]

OK, the ETS125 with 80grit brilliant worked well removing the finish. Which sander will work better for removing the finish to the corners the fastest, DTS400 or the RTS400? Which of the two is the most aggressive?

Thanks, Tom

Okay Tom, glad the ETS125 worked out. Both the RTS and DTS has a 2 mm stroke (I'm pretty sure), so neither are very aggressive. The DTS with it's iron shaped pad will get into the corners better. Of course if you want a more aggressive sander you'll want to take a look at the Deltex.

 

[Tom D]

Brice,
The Deltex is more aggressive than the others? I will check it out tomorrow.
Would you say the RTS and DTS are less aggressive than the ETS125?

 

[tbellemare]

I'm not Brice, but, the RTS 400, DTS 400, and ETS 125 are based on the same platform.

6000 - 14,000, 2mm spm.

The big differences that I see are in the pads.

The RTS has a rectangular pad with pretty vertically square edges.

The DTS has a delta-shaped pad with edges that are sloping toward the center of the sander. This allows one to get into corners without the likelyhood of the pad hitting something vertical along that edge.  Think about the last time you had the pad hit the adjacent surface and cause you to have to RE-SAND that surface!

The ETS is round, I won't say any more...

Tom

 

[Brice Burrell]

Brice,
The Deltex is more aggressive than the others? I will check it out tomorrow.
Would you say the RTS and DTS are less aggressive than the ETS125?

Tom, yes, the Deltex is a gear driven orbital sander and its much more aggressive but it has a smaller sanding surface. As Tom B. pointed out the ETS, DTS and ETS are the same platform. Given the fact the ETS is an random orbit sander it will sand a bit faster the plain orbital sanders.

 

[tbellemare]

As Brice stated, the Deltex is a completely different Animal.

It is gear-driven and can be used quite aggressively. I, personally, have also used it to do finishing work on narrow pieces.

I expect to get a lot of flack about that statement but that's what makes this Forum what it is.

If I had only 3 Festool sanders and I was on a Desert Island, I'd choose...

Rotex
Deltex
Duplex

If I could find a generator, everything would be quite comfortable... Assuming I had someone to provide consumables...

Tom

 

[Brice Burrell]

You won't get any flack from me on that statement Tom but there is no question the regular orbital sanders are better suited for finish sanding (in most applications) because of the larger sanding surfaces.

 

[erikfsn]

. . . If I had only 3 Festool sanders and I was on a Desert Island, I'd choose...

Rotex
Deltex
Duplex

. . .

Tom

Hi Tom,

Funny you pick those, I have only two Festool sanders, but they are a Rotex and a Deltex.
Great sanders,

Erik

 

[tbellemare]

Excellent choice, Erik!

I was exaggerating, Brice.

The regular orbitals are priceless for finishing, certain things especially. The thing about the line of sanders that Festool has made available here, is that they chose an overlapping series.

The combination of the sanders we can get, cover multiple and varied jobs nicely. It allows the DIYer to have a half-handful of sanders that will cover everything and a contractor (maybe more people involved) to have a stable of sanders that will cover everything in different and overlapping ways.

I agree with several comments on this Forum that I would like to see more of the stable of sanders available here but I also think the needs are covered pretty well.

Tom

 

[PaulMarcel]

Joining this thread a lil late...

but, I originally got the Rotex 125 then later scored a 150 on eBay.  I still kept the 125 since I have lots of consumables plus I find that if I have a lot to sand, the lighter machine is nicer.  I grip the head with the handle sticking out to the right and a pinky tucked underneath (so, making more of a palm sander grip) and find it both comfortable and controllable.  I can't do that with the 150.  However, the 150 is more aggressive; it did a great job with its P50 accomplice at stripping paint on a storage box (my gut tells me a RAS 115 would have been more impressive, but alas I don't have it).

For being aggressive, I found that the hard pad made a huge difference, at least on the 125 (my hard pad for the relatively new 150 just arrived this week).  If anything, it helps keep you from falling into the temptation of tipping the sander to apply more direct, focused pressure on "that one spot" and invariably dishing it.  Oh, not that I've done that.

I was chillin' at The Woodwhisperer's crib for a bit tonight and saw his ETS 150/3.  I wanted to ask if I could take it for a spin.  For those who have the Rotex, how would you compare any of the 3 ETS (125, 150/3, 150/5) to either Rotex?  Granted, I have far more experience with the Rotex 125, but I'll extrapolate...  It seems like any of them would be nice for the ROS part of sanding.

A+,
Paul-Marcel

 

[greg mann]

One thing to add about the DTS. If you are sanding along an adjacent shoulder, and keep the contact point of the pad near the center of its side, you will not get that annoying bounce off the wall that all of us dread. You know the drill. You want to sand right up to the wall but don't want to come in contact with it. The DTS has a sweet spot for this that is much more forgiving that any other sander I have used under these circumstances.