Router bits: 1/4" vs 8mm

[derekcohen]

I have a decent collection of both 1/2" router bits, and these are my general go-to for use in a large Elu (think DeWalt DW625) and my main router table. I also have 1/4" bits for use in a smaller Elu MOF97e (think DeWalt DE621) and a Makita trim router.

Recently, I decided to build a second router table around a spare Makita trim router, and then I began wondering whether there would be an advantage in switching to an 8mm collet for 8mm router bits. The 8mm has four times the surface area of a 1/4", and the advantage of greater stiffness and less flexing.

I then began searching for 8mm router bits, and discovered that the range available is small, and the more modern designs are only really available from sources such as AliExpress. For example, other sources offer bits which are the "old style", for example, there are no carbide, spiral or compression bits on sale. My question is why is the 8mm size not preferred and promoted over 1/4"? Do others here use 8mm?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[woodferret]

I prefer the 8mm.  But I use the Shaper Origin a lot and have like you sourced from AliExpress, despite being in NA.  I think most big box stores here will not carry such things so that drives most people towards the 1/4" unless they're already into CNC work.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Speaking from the production side, 8mm is a tough sell. We have produced quite a few and the sales numbers are under-whelming. To my knowledge, in North America, Festool routers and the Shaper Origin are the only routers that have 8mm collets available. Then the owners of those few tools have to be aware that 8mm is an option and willing to go the extra distance to track down, buy and use them. Most take the easy way and opt for 1/4".

Personally, I love them. There is a distinct difference in chatter when compared to 1/4" in the same cutter profile. I have quite a few from Festool and the ones we make. Always reach for them first when getting ready to use the Origin or the OF-1000. I also ordered an 8mm ER-20 collet and one for the OF-1400 so I can run them in my bigger routers, too.

 

[rmhinden]

[member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member]

I have purchased several of your 8mm shank router bits.  I would buy more if you offered them.

I use them in my OF1010 and Shaper Origin.

Bob

 

[jeh]

[member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member]

I have purchased several of your 8mm shank router bits.  I would buy more if you offered them.

I use them in my OF1010 and Shaper Origin.

Bob

I too prefer the 8mm's since they work in the smaller routers. The US's resistance to getting onboard with the Metric system at this point is dumb. It's time to pick a date and start the switch.

 

[bertv]

CMT Orange (based in Italy, I think) have a fairly comprehensive range of 8 mm bits. As do SistemiKlein and ENT. And Germans being Germans this webshop has a range of thousands of bits, mostly 'own brand' but in my experience of good quality:
https://www.systemshop24.de/

 

[Packard]

I have a (very nice) CMT dowel jig that uses 8mm dowels.  I had to buy 1,000 dowels online to get a decent price.  Try and find 8mm dowels locally in the USA.

Mandating a change from 1/4” to 8mm will require major supply chain changes.  Not as simple as “mandating” a change.

 

[Cheese]

Another fan of 8mm over 1/4"...I have several Festool and a couple of the new Woodpeckers bits. The 1/4" just don't get used that much any more except for the Whiteside 1/4" shank 0-Flute that's used for aluminum & plastic. Now if Woodpeckers would make that same bit but with an 8mm shank... [poke]

Derek, here's the CMT Italian/European catalog and they offer a ton of 8mm bits, they're just not available in the US. However, you may find it easier to order them.  [smile] 
https://www.cmtorangetools.com/downloads/8138/1080/FRESE_SET_2024_IT.pdf

[attachimg=1]

 

[dicktill]

Speaking from the production side, 8mm is a tough sell. We have produced quite a few and the sales numbers are under-whelming. To my knowledge, in North America, Festool routers and the Shaper Origin are the only routers that have 8mm collets available. Then the owners of those few tools have to be aware that 8mm is an option and willing to go the extra distance to track down, buy and use them. Most take the easy way and opt for 1/4".

Personally, I love them. There is a distinct difference in chatter when compared to 1/4" in the same cutter profile. I have quite a few from Festool and the ones we make. Always reach for them first when getting ready to use the Origin or the OF-1000. I also ordered an 8mm ER-20 collet and one for the OF-1400 so I can run them in my bigger routers, too.

Hi Jeff,

I just searched your website and I only found one router bit with an 8mm shank. Are there others?

Thanks, Dick

 

[rvieceli]

[member=18203]dicktill[/member] There appears to be 5 current offerings.
https://www.woodpeck.com/routing/ultra-shear-router-bits.html?shank=5777

Ron

 

[mino]

There is now a (partial) Global market for these items. This was not the case 50 yrs ago. This introduces new dynamics:

The 6.35 mm (1/4") is becoming more prevalent in the Metric world.
  - thanks to the huge Imperial market, they are widely available as compared to the 6 mm which has historically a niche role for trim-routers

The 8 mm is becoming (more) available in the Imperial lands. Where available, like in UK, it is actualy taking over.
  - 2x as strong as the "traditional" 1/4" and there is no wide availability of 5/16" to cover the middle ground

The 12.7 mm (1/2") are becoming (more) prevalent in the Metric world.
  - 20% stronger than the "traditional" metric 12 mm variety thus better suited for heavy tasks and cost about the same to make

Inevitably, 50 yrs down the line, I see the whole global market consolidating at a mix of:
1/4" (trim bits + legacy usage in the Imperial lands)
8 mm (mainstream, default for hobby use)
1/2" (big boys)

In a semi-open market that combination gives the objectively superior set once all the pre-existing sizes and the historical market dynamics are taken into account. Physics is a ... as they say.

---
Moral of the story for me:
6 mm is a bad idea, get it only where no (economical) 1/4" option

1/4" is here to stay, preferable to 6 mm for general uses

8 mm is the way to go for anything where 1/2 is not warranted, in US it is per-use-case given the prices and availability

12 mm is a dead end, get it only where no 1/2" option or a already have a big 12 mm stock (sorry Festool)

 

[Michael Kellough]

The round Festool 10 piece set of 8mm bits is now available for pre-order

 

[Packard]

Another fan of 8mm over 1/4"...I have several Festool and a couple of the new Woodpeckers bits. The 1/4" just don't get used that much any more except for the Whiteside 1/4" shank 0-Flute that's used for aluminum & plastic. Now if Woodpeckers would make that same bit but with an 8mm shank... [poke]

Derek, here's the CMT Italian/European catalog and they offer a ton of 8mm bits, they're just not available in the US. However, you may find it easier to order them.  [smile] 
https://www.cmtorangetools.com/downloads/8138/1080/FRESE_SET_2024_IT.pdf

[attachimg=1]

Your Amazon account will work with Amazon UK, Spain, Germany, Italy, etc.  Shipping is quite reasonable through Amazon and deliveries have been taking about 10 days.  You do have to remember to toggle back your account to your native country when you are done. 

I ordered from Amazon.de (Germany) and part of the order shipped from Germany and part shipped from Spain (Amazon.es). 

The German site has the ability to switch to English language, and the UK site should be understandable if you speak American English.  The other countries may have the ability to present in English, but I could not figure it out. 

IGM is a major distributor in Europe.  I am not sure where they ship from.  They sell EVERYTHING..

They are large enough that CMT will re-label some of their items as IGM proprietary items.  In fact they are just painted a different color. 

I tried to order from them, but my AMEX card would not go through. 

They have a huge online presence and they make many instructional videos (very good).  But I have not purchased anything from them.

They have several pages of 8mm shaft router bits. 
https://igmtools.com/mainform.aspx?rowfilter=true&search=Router+bit&page=10

 

[WillAdams]

Maybe tell folks about 3rd party collet options? Elaire Corp. sells quite a few:

e.g., for the Makita RT0701/0700/0702:https://elairecorp.com/makitaroutercollets/

I wish 8mm were more popular as well and use it where possible.

 

[dicktill]

[member=18203]dicktill[/member] There appears to be 5 current offerings.
https://www.woodpeck.com/routing/ultra-shear-router-bits.html?shank=5777

Ron

Thanks Ron!

 

[jeffinsgf]

...
The 8 mm is becoming (more) available in the Imperial lands. Where available, like in UK, it is actualy taking over.
  - 2x as strong as the "traditional" 1/4" and there is no wide availability of 5/16" to cover the middle ground

Don't know why I didn't think of this sooner. All we have to do to sell 8mm in the U.S. is quit calling it 8mm and call it 5/16". There's only .002" difference and there's no collet made that can't cover .002".  [big grin]

It is funny how all this stuff evolves. If I dug deep enough in my tool box, I'm pretty sure I could find some 3/8" shank router bits and a 3/8" x 1/2" adapter sleeve I used to use. I bet it would take a concerted effort to locate a 3/8" woodworking router bit for sale in the States today.

 

[mino]

...
IGM is a major distributor in Europe.  I am not sure where they ship from.  They sell EVERYTHING..
...

IGM is a Czech company ...

They started out by distributing for the local CZ market, then branched off to OEM-ordering various jigs and custom stuff like router bits ... now after expansion they again focus more on the distrib side.

The good thing about them is they are big-enough to have a good selection and technical-enough to have a clue when you ask .. they also have lots of bits made-to-order with some pretty exotic profiles.

 

[Mini Me]

Maybe tell folks about 3rd party collet options? Elaire Corp. sells quite a few:

e.g., for the Makita RT0701/0700/0702:https://elairecorp.com/makitaroutercollets/

I wish 8mm were more popular as well and use it where possible.

Using a CNC spindle in a table means you can use ER collets which also means you are not restricted to size and you are not restricted to what tooling you hold in the chuck.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Maybe tell folks about 3rd party collet options? Elaire Corp. sells quite a few:

e.g., for the Makita RT0701/0700/0702:https://elairecorp.com/makitaroutercollets/

I wish 8mm were more popular as well and use it where possible.

Using a CNC spindle in a table means you can use ER collets which also means you are not restricted to size and you are not restricted to what tooling you hold in the chuck.

Not to mention how much quieter and smooth they are, and if its water cooled the dust extraction is so much better!

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I'm another in that group. I much prefer 8mm shank bits, for the routers that can handle them. (OF1010, OF1400, MFK700, Shaper Origin) It really started with the MFK, when I was modifying the zero-degree base. Back then, Lee Valley was about all I could find, with alternative profiles and sizes. Pretty much everybody makes the solid carbide where the shank and cut diameter are the same. 5/16" and 3/8" are easily available. I still have, and occasionally use, a 3/8"-1/2" adapter/sleeve.
I have since purchased a Bosch set from Amazon.DE and also a few from Woodpeckers.
I understand that Trend has quite a selection, but their presence in the US is lacking. It might be better in Australia, but I don't know?
I would love to see Woodpeckers expand their range, but I do see the reluctance. It seems that it's really only Festool that is native to 8mm, here anyway. That has to severely limit the customer base.
Sure, there are a few weirdos like me, who have 6 different routers that can handle them, but I would bet that less than 1-1000 even have one.
That said, Woodpeckers bits are very nice. We use them in production CNC machines on a daily basis. They out last every other bit we have used, but a great margin.