router rocks with guide stop and table widener

[paulhtremblay]

I finally got my table widener installed on my router yesterday, and used it to cut some dados.

The router tips when I start the cut. Picture that the metal rods come out of the router and into the guide stops, and the guide stops ride along the guide rail. The guide rails have a knob. If I seize the knob and press down on it to give the router stability, it pushes the router up off the workpiece. I find I have to hold the router down firmly on the work piece. I can't use the guide stops for stability.

Put another way, the rods seem to be twisted out of parallel with guide rail. Shouldn't the whole configuration work as one? The guide stop provides guidance so the router does not wander, but these same stops work against the horizontal stability, lifting  the router off the work piece by about 1 mm.

Maybe I am doing something wrong?

 

[peter halle]

Which router are you using?  Did you use the accessory foot that adjusts down to the workpiece?

Peter

 

[paulhtremblay]

Which router are you using?  Did you use the accessory foot that adjusts down to the workpiece?

Peter

I'm using the OF 1400. I have the table widener on, and the table widener offsets the thickness of the guide rail so the router should rest level without the foot.

 

[peter halle]

Sorry.  I never used the table widener with the guide rail adapters.  I always just used the foot to make up the excess.
Peter

 

[rst]

Is any of the router base on the rail?  If so, that will cause the dip.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Paul, the table widener base is 10mm thick and not made for use with the guide rail. It will be 5mm too thick.

The small bore base or the support foot should be used with the guide rail to offer support. You can see the small bore base in this video around the 7:45 mark and around the 8:00 mark on the guide rail.



Support foot - http://www.festoolusa.com/power-tool-accessories/routers/other-accessories/support-foot-438608

 

[mouppe]

Shane, I use my OF1400 plus table widener with the guide rail all the time. If the router is completely off the guide rail it sits perfectly flush with the rail.

Some people make the error of using the small bore base with the regular base and think that the two combined equal the guide rail but they are wrong.

The table widener base is the right one to use. No support foot necessary.

I can post a photo later if needs be.

 

[paulhtremblay]

Shane, I use my OF1400 plus table widener with the guide rail all the time. If the router is completely off the guide rail it sits perfectly flush with the rail.

Some people make the error of using the small bore base with the regular base and think that the two combined equal the guide rail but they are wrong.

The table widener base is the right one to use. No support foot necessary.

I can post a photo later if needs be.

That was my understanding as well. Paul M. (the guy who posts the very helpful Festool videos) states that in one of his videos. The only reason I bought the table widener was for that purpose.

When I have used the foot, I got pretty poor support. If I have to make two passes to cut a dado, the depth of the groove is not even. I thought the table widener would fix that.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Let me check on this and get back to you. Apologies if the information I provided was incorrect.

 

[grbmds]

The foot works great with the rail and that is what it is designed for. While I have not done tons of router cuts with the guide rail, when I have the foot gives it the necesary support and is a great assist. I wasn't sure what you meant when you talked about having to hold the "knob" but I think holding the knob on the guide stop on the rail is almost a necessity. Not only does it help to stabilize the router and guide stop it helps make the router ride more smoothly on the rail. At least that was what I found. The result was an accurate, smoothly cut dado. I haven't been able to get as good a result with any other tool, including a good quality dado blade on a table saw and other jigs I've made to dado.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Shane, I use my OF1400 plus table widener with the guide rail all the time. If the router is completely off the guide rail it sits perfectly flush with the rail.

Some people make the error of using the small bore base with the regular base and think that the two combined equal the guide rail but they are wrong.

The table widener base is the right one to use. No support foot necessary.

I can post a photo later if needs be.

That was my understanding as well. Paul M. (the guy who posts the very helpful Festool videos) states that in one of his videos. The only reason I bought the table widener was for that purpose.

When I have used the foot, I got pretty poor support. If I have to make two passes to cut a dado, the depth of the groove is not even. I thought the table widener would fix that.

First off, Paul, Shane was correct. The table widener is the wrong base to use because it is 10mm thick. The base you need is the small bore base.

The part that I don't understand is the comment about not using the small bore base with the existing base. You have to use it with the existing base because it connects to the router using the Accessory Slots. You simply snap the small bore base onto the router over the existing base. Edit: I misread that to be that the poster was suggesting to remove the stock base. My mistake. However, it still stands that the small bore base is the correct base to use.

As for it rocking, there must be something set up incorrectly, because it is the correct height for use with a guide rail. By chance did you remove the existing base?

 

[mouppe]

This has been discussed a thousand times on the FOG and the myth persists.

QED.

You can make your own mind up which is correct from the following photos. Small bore first (with gap) and table widener base second (no gap).

 

[grbmds]

For me the foot has worked well anyway. The knob on the guide stop is meant for holding I think. I used that and held onto the knob. With the guide stop adjusted to ride securely on the rails, I didn't notice any tendency to rock. It's a great setup, especially for dadoes.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

What you have effectively done is traded a small gap (0.035") for a much larger one (0.109"). What is worse, though, is that your gap, while being larger, also creates a fulcrum point (teeter totter), which is inherently unstable. The basis of this thread is the rocking motion experienced by using the table widener. This is a much more significant factor because as the router tilts in this manner, it will significantly impact the depth of the cut.

[attachimg=1]

 

[mouppe]

Nonsense. My router base sits squarely on the MFT which is the only thing of importance. It doesn't rock at all. The guide stop you indicated is not sitting on the rail and is irrelevant. The only factor which counts for the guide stop is whether it moves parallel or not.

If you are putting downward pressure on the guide stop that is unnecessary. Put forward and downward pressure on the router handle or base and only slight forward pressure on the guide stop to keep the router moving forward.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

It's not nonsense given the title of the thread. As soon as you put your hand on the knob of the guide, you're going to tilt your router. The middle fulcrum point makes that setup inherently unstable.

 

[mouppe]

There's no middle fulcrum point when the router base is sitting level on the workpiece.  As I wrote in my previous post you should not be putting so much pressure on the guide stop knob so as to tip the whole assembly. It's bad practice and unnecessary.

Anyway I can only repeat myself so many times before the whole conversation becomes tiresome.

My suggestion to people reading this post is to try it for themselves.

 

[grbmds]

Why so irritable? No reason for that. The whole point of this forum is to provide information, not belittle the others and their opinions. Don't know why you even need the widener when using the guide rail.  I didn't and it worked just fine.

 

[paulhtremblay]

Paul, the table widener base is 10mm thick and not made for use with the guide rail. It will be 5mm too thick.

The small bore base or the support foot should be used with the guide rail to offer support. You can see the small bore base in this video around the 7:45 mark and around the 8:00 mark on the guide rail.

Dang. I couldn't see your video at work, but now that I have, it seems I got the wrong accessory.

http://www.amazon.com/Festool-492574-Small-Bore-Base/dp/B000BWFWK0

Thanks!

 

[mouppe]

Sorry, I did not mean to appear irritable, but I did not believe I had anything further to contribute to this thread.

I had posted three or four times in the thread- with photos- to illustrate my point that the table widener base is the most appropriate base to use when routing with the guide rail, and the last couple of times were in response to Rick Christopherson who was quoting me.

One example when the widener base is safer and easier to use than the support foot is when your MFT is all cut up and the support foot can snag on the kerfs.

Another point to note is that if your are routing grooves or dados using the small bore base in conjunction with the guide rail your sides will not be perpendicular to the workpiece. If you use the table widener base, they will.