Router table lifts

[CanadianNorth]

Good day all,

I am planning on buying a OF1400 and OF2200 router from Festool in the future. My main concern though is what type of router lift kit (if any)  :-\ are compatible with these routers for under table use? Tks in advance!!!

 

[Alan m]

[welcome] [welcome] to the fog.
i am not sure which of the main lift suppliers will fit the festool routers , their websites will tell you that.
i would not use a festool router in a table(unless i win the lotto) as it is better served as a hand held router. a cheaper router will do the same job in the table as the festool . i have a dewalt 625 in mine. i hear a lot from the members in the states about the porta cable routers they use in their tables.

festool do sell a lift for the of 1400 (not sure if it fits the others or not) but it is for the CMS which ye all in the states know ye are not allowed to get  [poke][big grin] [big grin]

 

[JohnPatrickTobin]

There's a write up of the Festool offering with good photos on the forum somewhere and I considered buying the CMS-OF for use with my OF1400. The problem is that by the time you add in the CMS itself the cost is just too high and I decided I wanted a more conventional router table.

I ordered a Pro Fence, Dual Track and insert plate from Bench Dog through Amazon.com and for above the table height adjustment I've ordered all the parts required to duplicate the height adjustment assembly from the CMS-OF from Festool UK.

The remaining parts should arrive next week; I'll photograph the build and post on the forum when it's done.

 

[spikfot]

As far as I know, there are no router lifts compatible with Festool routers. A Routerrazer can be fitted to a OF2000 for above table adjustment, but that is as close as you'll get, it works for me, but I've never heard of anyone else doing it. As a U.S. resident, there are many options open to you for other routers, I'd advise not utilizing a plunge router for use under a table with a lift, as it is a waste of the intended design. Instead buy a motor-only or a model in the 3HP range and fit it to a lift. This is what I'd do anyway.

 

[upscale]

i would not use a festool router in a table(unless i win the lotto) as it is better served as a hand held router. a cheaper router will do the same job in the table as the festool.

I have to agree with Alan. Putting a plunge router in a table with a table lift is a waste of machinery since a plunge router essentially does mostly the same thing as the table lift. Thinking about it, you could just put a Festool plunge router in a table without a lift and still benefit from lift capabilities. Also, dust collection is much simpler procedure when you're using a table mount, so the exceptional dust collection of Festool routers would mostly be wasted too. And finally, you'd be wasting money because many much simpler and cheaper routers work well with a lift attached.

 

[GPowers]

When down this same road and figured that the Festool router was just to good to put in a table. So I ended up buying the Kreg router table, lift etc..with the Porter Cable motor. It remains in the Table 100% of the time.

 

[sancho57]

I wouldnt put a fesstool router in a table.

The advantage of a festool router is the dust collection and its part of the "system".

You can get another router PC/Bosch etc to be mounted on a table.

They will be compatable with most lifts on the market today.

 

[ccarrolladams]

At the 26 & 27 May 2011 Doors and Drawer class in Henderson, NV we used 2 new CMS with router inserts. These are not yet available for purchase in North America.

We used an OF1400 in one CMS with a slider table accessory to do the "cope and stick" for a cabinet door. That router is more than powerful enough.

We used an OF2200 in the other CMS to route the raised panel door. I must say it is far more convenient to change bits with an OF2200 under the CMS because the plunge of the OF2200 is long enough the collet can lift above the table surface.

The dust collection of the CMS is outstanding.

All that being said, at my shop I have several popular in the USA router tables, all using PC 7518 router motors, which are sold without bases for this application. I routinely use the same make and model panel raising bit and cope & stick set as we used in class. The 7518 is more than powerful enough. We have added attachments to our router tables so the result is good enough dust collection. Please remember we do have a sophisticated and powerful shop dust collection system.

 

[spikfot]

At the 26 & 27 May 2011 Doors and Drawer class in Henderson, NV we used 2 new CMS with router inserts. These are not yet available for purchase in North America.

We used an OF1400 in one CMS with a slider table accessory to do the "cope and stick" for a cabinet door. That router is more than powerful enough.

We used an OF2200 in the other CMS to route the raised panel door. I must say it is far more convenient to change bits with an OF2200 under the CMS because the plunge of the OF2200 is long enough the collet can lift above the table surface.

The dust collection of the CMS is outstanding.

All that being said, at my shop I have several popular in the USA router tables, all using PC 7518 router motors, which are sold without bases for this application. I routinely use the same make and model panel raising bit and cope & stick set as we used in class. The 7518 is more than powerful enough. We have added attachments to our router tables so the result is good enough dust collection. Please remember we do have a sophisticated and powerful shop dust collection system.

personally

-I've read this before, and find it difficult to understand why Festool US utilizes European products NAiNA in their classes.
In theory, 1400w is sufficient for most table app's. The problem is the stress generated on shaft bearings while using large diameter bits under heavy load. Said problem is why I've modified OF2000's for table use, as it's Maffel design utilizes triple shaft bearings. Currently, I don't use any routers under 2000w in my tables, but I want the extra power there when I need it. Such arguments can be made for selling cars that can reach 180mph in a country with a speed limit of 75mph. In router-speak, it is always best to take a larger number of shallower passes to achieve a result (cutters will stay sharp longer also)
In the past 20 or so years, the design of *quality* router bits has improved dramatically, specifically anti-kickback balancing and semi-spiral cutting edges, which allows a 'bigger bite' and faster production rates ='s less load on the motor, also.
I'll be in California in Sept/Oct, and I'll be flying home with both of the Woodpecker Sidewinder lifts, having bought a transformer specifically for the 110v motors/routers I've had in storage for the past 7 years.

 

[NuggyBuggy]

At the 26 & 27 May 2011 Doors and Drawer class in Henderson, NV we used 2 new CMS with router inserts. These are not yet available for purchase in North America.

-I've read this before, and find it difficult to understand why Festool US utilizes European products NAiNA in their classes.

I thought exactly the same thing when I read the post.

 

[ccarrolladams]

Shane is the only designated spokesperson for Festool USA. I am sure any NINA questions need to be sent to Shane.

Although some members of the Henderson, NV Doors and Drawer class asked about CMS in NA, our trainers Steve Bace and Brian Sedgeley politely declined to comment or speculate.

As we were using the CMS with the router modules and both the OF1400 and the OF2200, all of us were asked for feedback. Once we had all completed the parts we needed to make using those separate CMS, Steve and Brian asked us for more feedback.

My guess is this is a valid way for Festool to gain information from experienced Festool owners and users.

I had used a CMS on trips to Europe. It does a typical Festool-quality dust collection job. I am sure when it is available in North America it will be very popular.

 

[spikfot]

Shane is the only designated spokesperson for Festool USA. I am sure any NINA questions need to be sent to Shane.

Although some members of the Henderson, NV Doors and Drawer class asked about CMS in NA, our trainers Steve Bace and Brian Sedgeley politely declined to comment or speculate.

As we were using the CMS with the router modules and both the OF1400 and the OF2200, all of us were asked for feedback. Once we had all completed the parts we needed to make using those separate CMS, Steve and Brian asked us for more feedback.

My guess is this is a valid way for Festool to gain information from experienced Festool owners and users.

I had used a CMS on trips to Europe. It does a typical Festool-quality dust collection job. I am sure when it is available in North America it will be very popular.

I can understand the 'user feedback' argument- not that anyone here is arguing- But if I paid for a class to learn how to use a product, wherein the products utilized were not available for me for purchase, I'd be disappointed at the least, possibly asking for a refund.  Having said that, I ordered a CMS OF2000 table insert 4? years ago- wasn't pleased with the design, it never left the store. In the end, I ordered an Incra fence and a kit to modify said router for above- table adjustment.
Funny, I had a Great-Aunt who lived in Henderson, Nv. Visited once in the Summer of '79 or '80. If I remember correctly, it was 114 F°- in the shade...Yikes...

 

[Ken Nagrod]

While I understand some people's upset or lack of understanding for the Festool training centers to have and use NAINA tools for the classes, I look at it from a different perspective.  I'm sure it can feel like a tease, but here's a chance to look, touch, use and learn about these unavailable tools and in return, Festool gets some helpful R&D and marketing info from those attending the classes.  If the products are introduced at a later date, there will be a handful of people who can assist others in their use, assembly and adjustment by posting info, pictures and video on the FOG to get new owners up to speed.

So far, the only downside I see is that we get a chance to use something we can't have yet.  That could also be a smart/sneaky way to ramp up initial purchases when introduced here.  Salivate and wait!  [smile]

 

[GPowers]

The CMS we use are basically a Router Tables, so the skills learned can be transfered to almost any Router Table.

Plus like it has been set we were able to play with tools that are not yet available and Festool got user testing feedback.

 

[spikfot]

So far as I understand, they are called "classes" which implies the opportunity to learn how to use something. Whether or not that something is commercially available, I guess is another topic, but I can't understand the concept of paying to 'learn' how to use something that is not available to me.  Just my opinion.

 

[peter halle]

I offer this as someone who has attended three of the classes and hopes to attend one more this year.  The classes are designed to teach techniques such as building cabinets, doors and drawers and also how to use Festool products to do so.  They provide an opportunity for the attendees to experience first hand the tools and the accessories for the tools.  It has been posted here time and time again that Festool hopes to bring the CMS, in at least one configuration, to North America.  They have had evaluation CMS's in Indianapolis since prior to August 2009.  In the class at that time the attendees were shown the CMS and asked their thoughts about it.  It was not demoed.  The fact that they are now using them in classes gives me encouragement that they will be coming versus not coming.

Peter

 

[ccarrolladams]

Details about the Doors and Drawer class have been freely shared on FOG since the first one in Lebanon earlier this year. Therefore all of us who signed up knew that, although NINA, we would be using the CMS for door routing.

I agree with classmate G Powers that the skills learned on one router table transfer to most other router tables. Going into the D&D class I was confident using my Felder tilting arbor shaper and all my router tables. Sure, I was interested in seeing the CMS in action here in the USA and getting a chance to adjust and use it.

Trust me, for every woodworker who needs an especially portable router table, the CMS is outstanding. My impression from those in class who do not earn their living making cabinets and yet own OF1400 and/or OF2200 there was strong interest in the CMS. Comparing the use with the OF1400 and the OF2200, the feeling was unanimous that the ideal is to use an OF2200 in the CMS. Those who already own an OF1400 felt that they would leave it as is for use without the table.

We all attend classes for a wide range of reasons. For some of us it is as much about gaining tips on coaching others in woodworking. Two of us participating supervise other talented professionals. Because we supervise, often we are a bit frustrated that in our shops and sites we do not always have enough chance to actually use the most interesting tools.

As always I encourage everyone to participate in the Festool classes. Here in FOG we do not read about such Festool classes outside the USA. If these are offered elsewhere it would be fascinating to read about them.

 

[peter halle]

Carroll,

I think that I remember that ironically there is a subsidiary of Tooltechnics in Europe that does training.  Not like our classes here.  These are longer professional (trades) training classes.  In fact, if my memory is correct, that company also trains for other tool manufacturers in Europe.

That is so strange to me.  That is why it is stuck in my deminished memory bank.

I was partially correct.  I got in touch with Christian.  There is a training program called  ""Kurswerkstatt". It is part of Festool Germany now. They offer courses through partners for hobbyist woodworkers. The courses are more like "how do I build a table, etc." than a tool training. And they are using Festool almost exclusively."

Peter