Sander/paper recommendations to convert Proluxe Cetol (aka Sikkens) to paint

[westcoastpainter]

I'm trying to avoid using a chemical stripper. The homeowners want the Sikkens coated posts/beams/rafters (photos attached) to be changed to solid white paint or stain. The ceiling slats and door will remain as they are.

I've already used my ETS EC 150/5 Random Orbital on some of the larger flat surfaces. My local supplier gave me 80 grit Abranet to use. It worked okay. I had to change to a new piece every couple of feet. I welcome any other suggestions for paper.

The other sander I have it the RTS400, but I can't see it being of any use on this.

I was thinking of getting the Festool Rotex RO 90 DX to use on the rest of it. Thoughts? It wouldn't sit idle afterwards, as a residential painter I could see myself using it for many interior projects and other exterior work.

Thanks in advance

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Are you trying to totally strip it to bare wood? Is there an adhesion problem with the product on there now?
If it's ok, I don't really see the need to do much more than rough it up enough for the new paint to stick.
Other way around, sure. The paint would have to go, for a clear coat, but the white will cover and the already applied coating acts as a sealer.

Otherwise, if you do need to strip, and the paper is clogging to fast, the grit is too fine. Step up at least one, to 60. As you mentioned, the geared orbital mode of the RO sanders is much better for stripping, though the 90 is probably a bit small for a project of that size. It would be lighter/easier to handle for the underside of some of those parts, but slower. because of its size.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Standard practise over here is to strip most of it off using a heat gun and a scraper, then sand afterwards.

 

[Holzhacker]

That Sikkens looks worn already. I don't know that I would spend too much time sanding deep for full removal. I would probably tackle the sanding with a combo of the ets125 and ro90.
Maybe look on Sikkens site to see if they have any primer recommendations when going over their old stain.
And yes, I'm a Sikkens fan. Tends to cover and last very well. Works great on Cedar

 

[Packard]

A slight tangent:

If you sand the surface for good adhesion is a primer needed?  Or is the scuffed surface sufficient?

 

[westcoastpainter]

[member=6145]Holzhacker[/member]

That Sikkens looks worn already. I don't know that I would spend too much time sanding deep for full removal. I would probably tackle the sanding with a combo of the ets125 and ro90.
Maybe look on Sikkens site to see if they have any primer recommendations when going over their old stain.
And yes, I'm a Sikkens fan. Tends to cover and last very well. Works great on Cedar

Some of it is fairly worn, but the protected areas like the rafters are still well coated in the Sikkens product.

I contacted PPG Proluxe who owns what was formerly Sikkens and also spoke to my local paint rep at Sherwin Williams. They both suggested a good sanding and then the application of an oil primer. Sherwin suggested their extreme block. Sikkens is known to not play nice with others, but they said it should be okay. However, it was stated that if I'm trying to guarantee to my customer that there will be no issues I would have to completely remove it all.

 

[smorgasbord]

I’ve used Smith & Co’s CPES as a primer for Sikkens on my doors, windows, and porch columns for years. Highly recommend the CPES. Silkens is, to me, a cross between a stain and a paint. Put it on too thickly or too many coats and it hides the grain.

 

[westcoastpainter]

[member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member]

Standard practise over here is to strip most of it off using a heat gun and a scraper, then sand afterwards.

How messy of a job is it using the heat gun to remove the Sikkens, have you done it?

 

[westcoastpainter]

[member=74278]Packard[/member]

A slight tangent:

If you sand the surface for good adhesion is a primer needed?  Or is the scuffed surface sufficient?

The info I was given from Sikkens (now PPG Proluxe) and from my local Sherwin Williams rep is it to do a good scuff sanding and then apply an oil primer like Sherwin's Extreme Block and that it "should" be okay. However, there is always a chance that any Sikkens left on the wood could cause issues like bubbling even with the primer applied. It sounded like the primer was more for blocking tannins than for adhesion.

 

[Packard]

[member=74278]Packard[/member]

A slight tangent:

If you sand the surface for good adhesion is a primer needed?  Or is the scuffed surface sufficient?

The info I was given from Sikkens (now PPG Proluxe) and from my local Sherwin Williams rep is it to do a good scuff sanding and then apply an oil primer like Sherwin's Extreme Block and that it "should" be okay. However, there is always a chance that any Sikkens left on the wood could cause issues like bubbling even with the primer applied. It sounded like the primer was more for blocking tannins than for adhesion.

Ah.  And it is outdoors, so shellac won’t work.

I stripped an old door which was certainly painted with oil based paint in 1953 when my house was built.  A heat gun and a scraper removed most of the paint.  I sanded to the point that there was just a tiny amount of paint in the crevices.  That last little bit is hard to remove.  I topcoated with clear poly.

The heat gun worked well and there was no airborne dust through that portion of the work.  So I recommend the heat gun and scraper to remove most of the underlying paint.

This is how far I went to remove the paint.  To remove it all would probably have doubled the time required.

 

[Packard]

I looked on “Paint Talk” and they had a thread on the subject.  You do have to be a professional painter to post there, but reading has no requirements.

It is the best source of information on painting that I have found.
https://www.painttalk.com/threads/sikkens.24383/

I’ve never used Sikkens, but after reading the posts on that thread, I will continue to never use it.

Addendum:  “…continue to never use it…” sounds wrong, but I think you will understand what I mean.

 

[mino]

I'm trying to avoid using a chemical stripper. The homeowners want the Sikkens coated posts/beams/rafters (photos attached) to be changed to solid white paint or stain. The ceiling slats and door will remain as they are.

I've already used my ETS EC 150/5 Random Orbital on some of the larger flat surfaces. My local supplier gave me 80 grit Abranet to use. It worked okay. I had to change to a new piece every couple of feet. I welcome any other suggestions for paper.

The other sander I have it the RTS400, but I can't see it being of any use on this.

I was thinking of getting the Festool Rotex RO 90 DX to use on the rest of it. Thoughts? It wouldn't sit idle afterwards, as a residential painter I could see myself using it for many interior projects and other exterior work.

Thanks in advance

If you are mainly a residential painter, I would go for the RO 150 + soft pad for heavy lifting like this. The RO 90 is really for details like windows etc. and you can get it later on. Avoid the RO 125. A jack of little and a master of none.

 

[westcoastpainter]

Update:
My local Festool dealer didn't have any other sanders in stock for me to try out. I ended up continuing on with the ETS EC 150 and Abranet 80 grit. I sanded down what I could to bare wood and made sure everything else was well scuff sanded. I had to do some of the tighter areas by hand.

I followed through with the process that my Sherwin Williams rep said has worked before which is to apply their Extreme Block alkyd primer after sanding. Then I applied two coats of Duration. Nothing lifted or bubbled on the areas with Sikkens that were scuff sanded, so hopefully it was a success.

 

[waho6o9]

Good job! Thanks for the update.