Sanding floor tile

R

RonMiller

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I have a bath remodel coming up where I'll probably tile over the existing tile. It's a solid newer high-end home with really ugly floor tile. The standard procedure is to clean it well and then sand the existing tile to help the new tile stick. Does anyone have a recommendation on sander/grits and/or experience with this? Presently I got an ETS 150/3 and a DTS 400 but would buy another sander if that made sense.
 
This may show my ignorance, but, what is the composition of the floor tile currently installed?

Peter
 
RonMiller said:
Does anyone have a recommendation on sander/grits and/or experience with this? Presently I got an ETS 150/3 and a DTS 400 but would buy another sander if that made sense.
Click to expand...

I have no experience sanding tiles, so I have no clue what effect it is gonna have. But if you want to roughen up hard materials, a Rotex with 36 grit saphir paper is the thing that comes to mind.
 
why not just pull the tile?

other wise i suggest A RED tool    Hilti DC-G 500 with cup attachment.

the sanders you mentioned will not do what you are asking.

Craig
 
This is a way to maximize $. Taking tile up is timeconsuming, messy, hard, and almost always involves replacing or repairing the subfloor, all of which adds $. The floor is solid (except in one small place where it WILL be taken up and repaired). Tiling over tile isn't preferred but it is increasingly common due to the newer latex thinsets. The floor is cleaned really well, leveled, and sanded. Many times the raised floor won't work in a room but in this particular case it will nicely - the other two rooms it touches are all higher than this one. Its not a matter of being unprofessional - it's a matter of doing this very carefully to lessen this cost so it can be spent elsewhere.

Now, what I really like answered is: has anyone sanded tile before and what worked for you? Thanks!
 
Ron,

I have never sanded ceramic floor tile. but tomorrow I will see if I have a piece of the floor tile from my kitchen left over and I will attempt to sand it with the most aggressive disk I have with the most aggressive sander available here in the US made by Festool ( RAS 115) and post the results.

Peter
 
Thanks, Peter. I used to do tile almost full time but the last 5 years am more into remodeling and cabinet-making. Hence the interest in using my Festools or a new one that will likely be of use later on (e.g. the RAS). If that's not practical, that's ok, I'll rent what I need for a day.

 
I wasn't trying to be flip. 
I have set a bit over 100,000 sf of tile and stone in the last 6 years,  The bathroom is likely less than 100 sf. a used Bosch Bulldog and tile chisel ($90.00 ish) will have it off in 2hrs even if it is well bonded.
the Very next line I suggested the HILTI
rsz_diamond_019.jpg
  the pic is of mine next to a 4.5 dewalt for comparison.  that setup is right around $500  and would do nicely.

The key to making a High-end remodel tile job look professional is the details. such as floor going under the trim or wall tile, including under the shower ledge.  These are often overlooked by inexperienced tile setters (I put you in this category only because you are asking what tool to use) until it is too late.  pulling the  floor allows the mechanic to reset the new to the original height, making all transitions easier. 

I have also owned the Bosch unit http://www.toolbarn.com/bosch-1773AK.html but the Hilti is better and it is multipurpose as the dust hood is an attachment, they also make crack chaser, and slotter attachments for the DC-G 500.
Craig

here is a thread http://www.contractortalk.com/f73/concrete-grinders-74196/
 
Ron,

I only had porcelin tiles, which are much harder than ceramic tiles. But just wanted to check using the RTS 400 with 60 Cristal and the ETS 150/3 with 36 grit Saphir.
The RTS 400 w/ Cristal didn't make much of scratch on that porcelin tile, but the ETS 150/3 with the 36 grit Saphir certainly took off the sheen, just not quickly. But the real test would be on ceramic tile, not porcelin. I would bet the Rotex with Saphir would do it pretty quickly, but I think it's best to see if you can use what you have and just get more aggressive paper. There is little question that the Rotex with Saphir would well and a RAS  even better; but lets' see if you get by with the tools at hand first. Also, that Bosch concrete grinder may be worth renting.
Peter wil hopefully have some feedback  tomorrow.

Bob

Bob
 
I completely agree with Craig... pull the tile.  For a bathroom, it won't be that difficult.  I did a small powder room in very little time and all I had was a hammer and chisel.  Once the first tile is out, the rest popped out pretty quickly.  Granted, the thinset was only 2 years old.  I did, however, do an entryway that was the same size as the bathroom by hand.  Again, pretty quick and this stuff was rock hard.  Once the first tile is out, mechanical advantage is in your court.  With power tools, it would have been even faster. 
 
I agree, pull the tile off. I've now removed tile from a kitchen, dining room hall way and bathroom. I've been doing one room/area a summer for the last couple of years and only have a 10'x11' room left. It's down on concrete and I've been using a Bosch rotary impact driver as it's down onto my concrete floor rather well in places. We also removed a living room and play room's ratty old carpet (and boy did my allergies flare up).  Learned how to lay tile and grouting by re-doing the house in tile that we like. Probably only 1200 sq.ft. though. Wore out the blade that came with my wet saw and ended up getting a new one made for porcelain tile, big difference.  I'll sell the wet saw when I know I'm done.

Started the job with a smaller rotary hammer drill, ended up getting a bigger one, it's still a noisy job and hard on my old back, but do it once right seems like a better idea than having to ever do it again.

Oh, yeah, the John Bridge tile forum is excellent.
http://www.johnbridge.com

Mark
 
Pulling the tile would be best practise, but it's not always the smart thing to do. I tile-over a lot in older properties where the underlying wall is old enough to be a can of worms if opened up; pull the tiles and half the wall will come down as well! If the surface of the existing tile is sound I usually scuff the surface up with a grinder (just a broad cross-hatch) then clean it all down and prime it with the primer recommended by the company whose adhesive you're using.

A lot of manufacturers sell adhesive specifically for tiling-over, and whilst I've used these directly on the tile, scuffing the surface just helps things along a bit.

HTH, Pete.
 
The experiment with the RAS 115 sanding with the coarsest grit (24) I have was a failure.  In full disclosure the tile that I had on hand was porcelain - which is harder than regular ceramic.

There were no visible scratches on the surface.

Peter
 
Peter Halle said:
The experiment with the RAS 115 sanding with the coarsest grit (24) I have was a failure.  In full disclosure the tile that I had on hand was porcelain - which is harder than regular ceramic.

There were no visible scratches on the surface.

Peter
Click to expand...

Wow, PETER,

The 150 took the sheen down, not by much, but enough that the sheen was off a bit.

But like yours, it was porcelain, not ceramic.

Bob
 
I might have a piece of ceramic in the old shed that I will attempt to retrieve and try in a couple of minutes.

Peter
 
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