Sanding Ipe decking with RO 150 and DX 93

[ericbuggeln]

I recently got a contract to sand some Ipe which was mistakenly coated with Cabot Semi-Transparent stain.  It is 524 sq ft of decking, plus top rail and stairs.  Having done many Mahogany, Redwood, and Western Red Cedar deck sandings with this sander combo, I asked the homeowner if I could bring over the set up(which made their jaws drop and probably got me the job) and sand 1 sq ft to see how fast or slow it would go.  The RO 150 made quick work of the decking with 80 grit Rubin on "removal mode" and then did fine finish.  The Ipe was so dense that the stain never stood a chance.

My first question is, should I just do coarse sanding mode in order to promote better adhesion?  or would that leave scratch marks.  While i was there doing test run, rubbed my hand in some water that had drained through the potted plants and rubbed it on raw Ipe to give the HO an idea of what it would look like.  With the 80 grit Rubin and fine finish, it looked amazing, did not try with coarse sander though.  I have done "softer" decks with 80 then 120 grit, but was going to just stick with 80 on this one.

I am almost definitely using Penofin Hardwood Formula for top coat, but would be interested in any suggestions or comments on the matter, thanks Eric

 

[nickao]

Ipe is one wood you can leave alone, even if it is outside. I find it is more of a pain sealing the wood than leaving it be. Obviously the owners found that out as well. Now they are paying for sanding and re applying finish? Haven't they learned their lesson, if they had just left the Ipe unfinished it would be fine right now. The finishing of Ipe will require maintenance with almost anything you can think of using, which defeats the entire purpose finishing in the first place.

The reasons Ipe is so hard to finish are the exact reasons why it is a great outdoor wood. It is these outdoor properties saying please don't put finish on me I can protect myself(with a gentle cleaning every 2 to 3 years) that make the finishing so dang tough.

For interior work Shellac looks great on Ipe and holds up, for exterior I haven't seen anything that looks good on Ipe a year later.

Good luck, Ipe is a bear to finish.

 

[jmbfestool]

UK web site sells IPE  and reading below it says its been treated.  The Bold writing is the bit I am on about!

http://decksupply.co.uk/21_x_145mm_1st_Grade_Ipe_Decking.aspx?gclid=CPus8LafmaMCFQ1t4wodc1essg

I have copied and paste from site above for ease!

''Our smooth all round Ip? - Tabebuia serratifolia (pronounced "Ee-Pay") decking is 1st Grade which means that it is the best available. It is air dried for additional stability and finished on 4 sides with eased edges. Ip? is a South American hardwood that is one of the hardest woods on earth (3 times harder than oak!). Due to its hardness and natural ability to resist decay, Ip? will provide many years of service.''

JMB

 

[peter halle]

JMB,

I think that when that website talks about their ipe being finished on all four sides with eased edges they mean that it is planed on all four sides with slightly rounded edges versus having a finish applied.

Peter

 

[jmbfestool]

JMB,

I think that when that website talks about their ipe being finished on all four sides with eased edges they mean that it is planed on all four sides with slightly rounded edges versus having a finish applied.

Peter

I know what your trying to say and I think I agree with you their. I can still back up what I am trying to get through with the statment below form the site which is further down on the same web site near the bottom :

Ip? has a natural, rich, dark brown colour with occasional yellow tints and yellowish-brown sap. Left unstained it will gradually age to a lighter brown with grey overtones. However, Ip? can be stained to retain its rich, dark brown colour or it can be stained to give it a glossier finish.

(also if you look at the pictures it looks like its been treated has a slight gloss look, im just saying)

JMB

 

[peter halle]

That website also has a recommendation for a finish to be used a little lower on the page.  Ipe is so dense and also oily - I believe - that a finish that sits on the surface does not have much of a chance.  The ones that penetrate can not penetrate that deeply which also leads to a shortened life for the finish.  As Nickao said, the things that make it a good wood and long lived also are the things that prevent a finish from lasting a long time.

Just because it can be stained or finished to provide a glossier surface as the seller writes, doesn't mean that the finish will last a long time.  They want to sell the wood.  Two years from now they won't care if the finish lasted - I bet.

I would love to have an ipe deck.  Just can't afford it.

Peter

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I find Ipe costs less then these plasticy synthetic foo-foo decking products out there.

I just can't find very many people that are able to see that side of it, oh well, plastic decking is way easier to install and I get just as much money for doing it.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I find Ipe costs less then these plasticy synthetic foo-foo decking products out there.

I just can't find very many people that are able to see that side of it, oh well, plastic decking is way easier to install and I get just as much money for doing it.

That's why I don't try to sell it.

 

[harry_]

I find Ipe costs less then these plasticy synthetic foo-foo decking products out there.

I just can't find very many people that are able to see that side of it, oh well, plastic decking is way easier to install and I get just as much money for doing it.

That's why I don't try to sell it.

EVER!  [thumbs up]

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I find Ipe costs less then these plasticy synthetic foo-foo decking products out there.

I just can't find very many people that are able to see that side of it, oh well, plastic decking is way easier to install and I get just as much money for doing it.

That's why I don't try to sell it.

EVER!  [thumbs up]

Ever on the Azek type stuff or ever on Ipe?

All I know is that a decent sized Ipe deck will kill about 2-3 good blades per deck.
Not to mention the PIA of trying to use hidden fasteners.

I will do a Fiberon Horizon, Timbertech or Azek deck but, those are about the only ones.

 

[peter halle]

Darcy,

You beat me to the question.  No to ipe or no to sythetic?

Peter

 

[jvsteenb]

Mind you: Ipe ( Tabebuia spec. ) contains lapachol and it's derivate desoxylapachol wich can lead to skin allergies in workers so wear fitting clothing, long sleeves and gloves, and don't try to sand without dustcollection hooked up. A dustmask ( preferrably a halfmask ) would be advisable as well. Remember: as a woodworker, you're exposed to these health hazards regularly, so take your precautions.

It's a beautiful species, especially sourced from Surinam, where the hardest wood with the highest density originates. If only it would be possible to glue it up properly ( and durably ) it would be superior for bent laminates, as it's not only very strong and durable, but also bends very well. It has a rather high tannin content, so stainless screws are a necessity to prevent blue stains.
If desired, a mild ammonia solutiuon can change the slightly greenish hue to a darker red one, while cleaning and degreasing the surface. The wood is susceptible to bleeding in contact with water, so if left unfinished, it may be spotty and blotchy for a while before it's natural greyish patina evolves.

Regards,

Job

 

[jvsteenb]

All I know is that a decent sized Ipe deck will kill about 2-3 good blades per deck.

If you have to process a lot of Ipe, you may want to install a blade with less hook. About 2 degrees hook angle will probaly do, and lowering the speed of the saw helps as well.
These woods are very dense, and it helps to account for that when choosing your blades. Always predrill before screwing, and just as well use metal spiral bits for the load on the cutting tip is very high in a standard bradpoint bit.

Regards,

Job

 

[ericbuggeln]

Since this thread has gone off track, I will change the questions.  If you HAD to sand and finish an Ipe deck, would you use coarse mode on the RO 150 with 80 grit or would you also use fine finish?  Would this close the grain too much?  Also does anyone have a finishing choice or experience with Penofin Hardwood Formula?  I have used other blends from Penofin with much success, thanks Eric

 

[jvsteenb]

One of the greater merits of Ipe is that it can be finished to an almost glasslike finish. I would certainly finish finer then 120. This is one of the rare woods that can literally be polished before finishing. In fact, I think I wouldn't finish it at all, but that's up to the owner. IF you're finishing it, I wouldn't go beyond 320 grit.

Regards,

Job

PS: Sorry if I got a bit OT - beuatiful woods do that to me.... [embarassed]

 

[nickao]

Yes, it finishes like glass, but you do not want that for a deck!

You do not want a glass finish on a deck so that when it gets wet it will be like ice! I have been paid many times to use additives to reduce the deck being slippery and that was with a deck not even sanded at all.

120 is MORE than enough on a deck!

Actually, with Ipe and 220grit(I never go above 180) it does look like glass so there is no need to finish above that on the raw wood even if it is for is a piece for interior.

I would use an RO and find the highest grit that takes off the finish. Than I would skip a grit until I got to 120 and that is it.

Really, I would rent a floor sander and use that. Just make sure you set any nails and screws so you don't eat the pad apart. You will finish many times faster with no back pain and can use the RO for touch up. They even have newer floor sanders that are made for exterior deck use now.

 

[jvsteenb]

Nickao,

You are right, of course. But for a deck, I wouldn't finish anyway, and when left bare, even finished to 400 the Ipe will stay non-slip, and will be less susceptible to algae-growth in humid periods.
This may not apply where you live....
IF you finish, the kind of finish will determine if it's slippery or not.

Regards,

Job

 

[ericbuggeln]

The clients feel the "greying" does not go with their color scheme, hence the desire to finish, Eric

 

[lambeater]

Eric once you get it cleaned go with the penofin oil as you suggested. I built a large Cumaru deck (very close to ipe) and oil it once a year with Penofin. You may also want to wax seal the open ends where possible.
Lambeater

 

[nickao]

Hehe than they should have got plastic.

They will be re-staining and maintaining every two years in some areas every year. If they just clean the deck every spring it will not turn gray. The gray usually starts happening about 18 months. Personally I would rather clean it once a year than stain it once a year. My Redwood play land took 5 years and still it is not completely gray. I never pout anything on it. I sanded a part of it and it looks brand new, now my wife is making me sand the entire thing. Cedar turns gray faster than most any of the exterior woods, IME.

You always have to go with what the client wants, that's for sure. Just don't guarantee anything very long.

Cumaru is an awesome material for decking and hard as a rock.   Oiling once a year sounds right to me.