Saw Shield -- New Finger-saving Technology for Table Saws and Band Saws

JimH2 said:
I will add that the fact that the SawStop destroys your blade is meaningless because you still have your hand, all fingers and only need a band aid. If it does trigger and you have to buy a new brake and blade you will not care. The plus to it is you are forced to stand down until you can replace them, which you need to do when you have avoided a life altering injury. The weak point of the Bosch is that you can fire it right back up and keep cutting, which is a terrible plan.

But, the other way around is if you have just one saw/blade, if you destroy the saw/blade you won't be able to finish the job, but if you loose a hand, you still have another hand and a functioning saw, so you will be able to work thru and get the job done.  If you have saw stop, you may have both hands, but you have no saw and can't complete the job. Do you want to risk upsetting the customer or being late on a job?
 
HarveyWildes said:
I'm with the skeptics - I want to see some reviews before I'm buying it.
Add me as a skeptic too.  I suspect this is not going very far.  Hopefully nobody looses their money. 

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DeformedTree said:
JimH2 said:
I will add that the fact that the SawStop destroys your blade is meaningless because you still have your hand, all fingers and only need a band aid. If it does trigger and you have to buy a new brake and blade you will not care. The plus to it is you are forced to stand down until you can replace them, which you need to do when you have avoided a life altering injury. The weak point of the Bosch is that you can fire it right back up and keep cutting, which is a terrible plan.

But, the other way around is if you have just one saw/blade, if you destroy the saw/blade you won't be able to finish the job, but if you loose a hand, you still have another hand and a functioning saw, so you will be able to work thru and get the job done.  If you have saw stop, you may have both hands, but you have no saw and can't complete the job. Do you want to risk upsetting the customer or being late on a job?

For many SawStop users, the finger-saving tech is an insurance policy. For businesses,  they should keep a spare cartridge. I'm sure no cabinet shops have only one blade around  (I have 4, including the stock blade that came with the saw, still new and never used). If the SawStop fires, still happy ending for both the shop and customers. [big grin]
 
ChuckM said:
Data supplied by SawStop concerning the number of table saw units sold and the number of reported blade contact incidences, demonstrates that operators are nearly five times more likely to contact the saw blade of a SawStop saw as opposed to the operator of a conventional table saw.

I think that's mostly an increase in reported contacts. Fact is, if you touch the SawStop, it triggers and you have to get a new cartridge. But if you touch a normal saw's blade, nothing gets reported unless it is an injury worth going to the hospital. As dangerous as a saw blade is, I am sure there is also a very large number of contacts where there is no damage at all or only minor nicks not worth mentioning.

DeformedTree said:
The first time you use a table saw, you are nervous.  Of course your shop teacher or father/mother told you how dangerous it is when you learned how to use it. But over time, you get used to it. 

I must be a special kind of coward then, when I fire up that thing, I am still as nervous as I was the first time.  [unsure]
 
"The weak point of the Bosch is that you can fire it right back up and keep cutting, which is a terrible plan."

Is that true? I thought you had to remove the cartridge and flip it over to use it a second time. Plus you have
to manually raise the blade back up into the operating position which requires you manually release a lock
mechanism. If I am right that does force a time out during which you have to flip the cartridge which is not
unlike SawStop. If you have a spare blade and cartridge for the SawStop you can be back in business in a few
minutes as I see it. Same with the ReAXX after you flip the cartridge, blade is not damaged supposedly.
 
I must be a special kind of coward then, when I fire up that thing, I am still as nervous as I was the first time.  [unsure]
[/quote]

I with you Alex- a saw that can cut through hardwoods like butter always has my full and undivided attention.  I don't have a SawStop (yet) but would still not trust it by getting my fingers too close.  I don't care how reliable the technology is- I'm not trusting it.

Regards,
Gerald
 
Gerald_D said:
Snip.
I don't care how reliable the technology is- I'm not trusting it.

Regards,
Gerald

That's the right attitude to have when using a SawStop or a power tool. Any SawStop users who behave recklessly just because they're protected by the finger-saving tech will sooner or later get hurt or maimed by using some other machines that require proper safety behavior and attitude.
 
I'm always kind of stunned by the number of posters who seem to think that most people who buy a Sawstop are doing it so that they don't have to pay attention when they are using the tablesaw. I really doubt that is the case. Couldn't the reason for buying a Sawstop be that, because users have so much respect for the damage a tablesaw can do, they just want that extra safety edge so that they know if they ever do make a mistake it won't be a finger eliminating mistake? I know that's the reason I bought one. Sure I never had a finger endangering accident on a tablesaw because I am careful and attentive and use the safest practices I can. However, what's the point of taking a chance that someday you will, in fact, just not be quite as attentive or some rare unexpected event happens on the saw or the law of averages finally catches up with you? I don't know about how effective this new technology but I do know the Sawstop tech works.  Is the cost of replacing the blade and cartridge a little high? In comparison to losing a finger or serious injury to a hand . . . not really. I'm not interested in a discussion about this really. It's just my opinion about being safe and the chance, no matter how small, that I might one day make a mistake. None of us is perfect.
 
Folks don't buy safety items to become reckless,  they buy them because they see/know/understand/fear the danger.  It's what those systems do to us after we have them that is the issue.  People slowly become less careful/attentive/etc as the danger has been reduced/mitigated/etc.  It's not a change that folks actively do, it creeps in slowly to where we don't think about it any more. You can look around you and see people using the safety features all the time on items when they shouldn't be, lots of items on cars, sticking hands in elevators doors to get in there (they know it will open back up), etc.

It doesn't mean this happens in every case, but it very much happens.  It's how people later get injured, they got so use to a safety system they begin to forget about it, be less careful, and/or if when needed one day it doesn't function right, they have let their guard down.

No one is just going to over night not care about the blade, it's a danger people see very clearly.  But even if they don't consciously think it, most will over time be less fearful because they know the tech is there, they will be more likely to push just a bit closer, even if they don't think they are.

If you are business, the best path would pound safety in like a crazed shop teacher, yet have saw stop in the saws, but find a way the employees can't tell it's there. That is one of the downsides with it, you know a saw has it.  If you had no way to know, you would always think of the horror stories.
 
HarveyWildes said:
I'm with the skeptics - I want to see some reviews before I'm buying it.

As is said, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." This could be just one of those moments.  [tongue]

This is a photo of the brake cartridge, nothing special from the outside and also not particularly confidence inspiring. For this product to work 2 things have to happen, the brake pucks must actuate properly and neither them or the brake cartridge can be ripped from its mountings.

[attachimg=1]

Keeping the above in mind, I then ran across these FAQ's on the Saw Shield website.

Is Saw Shield compatible with my table saw?

After ordering, you will receive an email asking you the make and model of your saw. We will use this information to provide you with an installation bracket designed to fit your saw. We have saw specific brackets already designed for many table saws. However, if we don't have a bracket designed for your table saw, we will work with you to make one.

How do I install the dado cartridge?

The dado cartridge simply snaps into place, and can be easily installed in under a minute while changing blades.

I don't know about others, but to me, these statements are also not very confidence inspiring. I guess I'll wait until the summer of 2021 to sign up for this program.
 

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When I traded in my Unisaw, I could have bought any table saw (but not room for a big slider). The finalists were Powermatic and SawStop.

I decided on SawStop based on many features. The safety system was important, but not top of the list.

I’ve had my Industrial SawStop (biggest model) for years. I know the safety system is there, but I am extremely careful around the saw as if the safety system wasn’t there.

My best safety system is to think through what could go wrong and how to minimize the threat. If I am uneasy about an operation, I walk away. Usually, I can figure a safer way of achieving the goal. I also put away the tools if I’m tired or distracted.
 
Well, this was inevitable. Capacitive sensor, actuator, and a break.
My only concern is mounting it on a regular saw not designed for this kind of extra stress. But then it depends on the type and position of break(s) relative to the arbor and how they stop the motor.
It would be unfortunate if SawStop tried kill this competitor.
 
Svar said:
It would be unfortunate if SawStop tried kill this competitor.

SawStop must be watching closely if this Saw Shield technology (which we know nothing about!) is infringing its patents, as did the Bosch technology. I recall seeing somewhere suggestions that other major PTI saw makers have already been developing and working on prototypes in anticipation of the expiry of the critical SawStop patents (some say (without proof) in 2 to 3 years).

On second thought, I wonder if these inventors had approached existing saw makers, and explored selling their Saw Shield technology to them.
 
I doubt Saw Stop or any others are paying attention to this adventure.. Not to discourage but this is a long shot at being successful especially with the complex requirements that must be satisfied from a couple of guys working out of their garage. I would wait until real venture capitalists jump in with some real money to ensure quality of the product.   
 
DeformedTree said:
JimH2 said:
I will add that the fact that the SawStop destroys your blade is meaningless because you still have your hand, all fingers and only need a band aid. If it does trigger and you have to buy a new brake and blade you will not care. The plus to it is you are forced to stand down until you can replace them, which you need to do when you have avoided a life altering injury. The weak point of the Bosch is that you can fire it right back up and keep cutting, which is a terrible plan.

But, the other way around is if you have just one saw/blade, if you destroy the saw/blade you won't be able to finish the job, but if you loose a hand, you still have another hand and a functioning saw, so you will be able to work thru and get the job done.  If you have saw stop, you may have both hands, but you have no saw and can't complete the job. Do you want to risk upsetting the customer or being late on a job?

I'll assume you are being sarcastic. Or maybe if it happens on site they will be happy to help clean up the blood/skin and locate any portions for possible reattachment.
 
I think Felder was working on same thing (PCS). I smell a lawsuit coming....

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JimH2 said:
I will add that the fact that the SawStop destroys your blade is meaningless because you still have your hand
If all you have is SawStop, than yes. If there is equally effective alternative, which spares the blade and cartridge, then the choice would be obvious.
 
Svar said:
JimH2 said:
I will add that the fact that the SawStop destroys your blade is meaningless because you still have your hand
If all you have is SawStop, than yes. If there is equally effective alternative, which spares the blade and cartridge, then the choice would be obvious.

Svar has outlined it succinctly.

Jim - your argument is flawed in that not every brake trigger is caused by flesh detection.    Brake deployments, along with trashed blades can happen when one forgets to deactivate the system and cuts moist lumber like PT, or encounters concealed metal or changes blades without re calibration.  Or carbon fiber.
 
I have been a user of a SawStop since at least 2011 and have never had a false trigger. In the end I could careless about $175 or so if I still have my fingers and hands. I'll add that SawStop has well over 10 years of data and proof their product works which is more so than any other competing product.
 
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