Sawstop PCS 36" with industrial mobile base

[Deke]

My secret to woodworking is to use the shop to make things for my wife and the house. Result? Wife encourages tool purchases. She practically forced me (kidding) to buy a new table saw, though only as long as I build her new stuff. We just moved and prior to doing so I sold my old Delta contractor saw. We did a lot together and despite the apparent limitations I was able to do almost anything - had a nice cross cut sled, tenon jig, dado... So, last week I ordered a new table saw, the Sawstop PCS 36" fence with the heavy duty industrial mobile base. With a basement shop, my Woodcraft store offered to deliver it to the basement (Bilco doors, thank the Lord) and for an extra $100, they set it up too. I was actually looking forward to putting it together, but they did it in no time.

So, I have only had this a week, but this is a whole new world of table saw power, precision, dust collection and smoothness for me. It is even less noisy. Ripping a 2" thick board of sapele was a huge difference than my old 1.5 or so HP contractor saw.

I know Sawstop often invokes endless arguments on safety, but set that aside and this is a saw that compares to any cabinet saw. I will add one thing. Some people theorize that the safety feature will make people careless. I don't buy that. My primitive brain still sees a 5000 rpm spinning blade and wants nothing to do with it. I have actually found myself being more careful thinking, "Don't hit the blade, it will cost you $75 for a cartridge and a blade sharpening." I realize that sounds absurd, but that is where my mind went while cutting some boards!

Fit and finish are really outstanding. The top is beautiful and I like the fence quite a bit. The hydraulic mobile base is brilliant. It even tilts a bit so the two legs holding the extension lift even more to help you move it. My salesman practically insisted I get this over the standard built in PCS mobile package. Glad he did.

Okay, this is turning out to be a very disorganized review with little useful info. I just need to tell someone how happy I am with the new tool.

 

[rljatl]

You were smart to buy it now.  Let's just hope Festool doesn't screw it up for future buyers.

 

[Deke]

You were smart to buy it now.  Let's just hope Festool doesn't screw it up for future buyers.

Sorry, I'm not up on things. What do you mean exactly? Festool table saw?

 

[live4ever]

Festool bought Sawstop.  Or more precisely, Festool's parent company bought Sawstop earlier this summer.

Congrats on your new saw.  [big grin]

 

[ChuckM]

If one can afford (or is willing to buy) a SS PCS model, the mobile base (upgrade kit) -- unless one does not move the saw at all -- and the over-the-table dust collection are worth every penny of it. If you have a small dust collector (e.g. 1.5 HP) but could connect the over-the-table hose direct to a shop vac, dust is a thing of the past, in all but a few types of cuts (where you can use the riving knife only).

As regards safety, I have not changed how I feel about the spinning blade or how I work in the shop since owning a SS. In my case, it could be a $250 loss anytime a sawstop is triggered (unlike the Bosch version that gives you a second chance or more). The only thing that has changed is the quality of cuts.

 

[ben_r_]

Love mine. Really is the top quality table saw for the price. Ive got the 3HP PCS 36" with the ICS mobile base. Very nice tool. Add some Forrest blades to go with it and youll wonder how you got by without it!

 

[Birdhunter]

I've been extremely pleased with my Industrial Sawstop. I bought the pump up mobile base and it allows me to reconfigure my shop to ammodate larger projects. The saw has exceeded all my highest expectations and I am picky about tools.

I have the same feeling about triggering the safety device. I did however do that. I was using a tenon sled and just barely nicked the blade. Bam! Forrest blade and cartridge done for. Scared me big time.

 

[ChuckM]

Festool bought Sawstop.  Or more precisely, Festool's parent company bought Sawstop earlier this summer.

Congrats on your new saw.  [big grin]

Wonder if down the road, FOG will create a sub-forum for SawStop owners and users. 

 

[ben_r_]

Festool bought Sawstop.  Or more precisely, Festool's parent company bought Sawstop earlier this summer.

Congrats on your new saw.  [big grin]

Wonder if down the road, FOG will create a sub-forum for SawStop owners and users. 

Huh, thats an interesting thought. Cant see why they wouldnt.

 

[cpw]

I agree that the Industrial Mobile Base on the PCS is fantastic.  I wish my other tools (in particular bandsaw and jointer/planer) had the same base available.

 

[ChuckM]

I agree that the Industrial Mobile Base on the PCS is fantastic.  I wish my other tools (in particular bandsaw and jointer/planer) had the same base available.

Didn't it make you wonder why such a simple feature has been ignored by so many other manufacturers of heavy woodworking machinery? Perhaps under the new ownership, SawStop or Festool will start looking into adapting all of SawStop strengths (not just the finger-saving tech.) to other machines (inside and outside Festool). They include the safety feature, precision, dust collection and mobile base. Even the SawStop manual (which can still be further improved, another weak point for most machines) is better than most others.

If they came out with a Kapex that has got rid of any real or perceived motor issues and is equipped with sawstop, I would be among the first buyers of their new mitre saws.

 

[jeh]

If one can afford (or is willing to buy) a SS PCS model, the mobile base (upgrade kit) -- unless one does not move the saw at all -- and the over-the-table dust collection are worth every penny of it. If you have a small dust collector (e.g. 1.5 HP) but could connect the over-the-table hose direct to a shop vac, dust is a thing of the past, in all but a few types of cuts (where you can use the riving knife only).

As regards safety, I have not changed how I feel about the spinning blade or how I work in the shop since owning a SS. In my case, it could be a $250 loss anytime a sawstop is triggered (unlike the Bosch version that gives you a second chance or more). The only thing that has changed is the quality of cuts.

You can't compare the "not sold in the US" Bosch Contractor Saw with safety feature to the SawStop PCS. Completely different class of tool. I have nothing against the Bosch especially since it is better built than the equivalent SawStop Jobsite saw even though the prices are close to each other. As for the $250 it does not matter. If you have health insurance there is a good chance the emergency room deductible is that much or higher.

 

[ChuckM]

As regards safety, I have not changed how I feel about the spinning blade or how I work in the shop since owning a SS. In my case, it could be a $250 loss anytime a sawstop is triggered (unlike the Bosch version that gives you a second chance or more). The only thing that has changed is the quality of cuts.

You can't compare the "not sold in the US" Bosch Contractor Saw with safety feature to the SawStop PCS. Completely different class of tool. I have nothing against the Bosch especially since it is better built than the equivalent SawStop Jobsite saw even though the prices are close to each other. As for the $250 it does not matter. If you have health insurance there is a good chance the emergency room deductible is that much or higher.

North of the border, our medicare provides for free medical services at the Emergency Room (but not the ambulance , if needed). I would feel more pain with a physical cut than any pain associated with loss of money in an accident. Like many SawStop owners, I have one of those Forrest blades and the thought of ruining a fine blade with a trigger of the SawStop feature is an added incentive for me to be extremely careful whenever the saw is powered up.

For the record, if you trigger the sawstop with the contact of a finger or body part, SawStop will replace the cartridge free if you send the used cartridge back to them for analysis and verification. Of course, you will lose the shop time unless you have a spare cartridge. You have no luck if you cut a wet wood and trigger the stop, forgetting to turn the safety feature off. In my former workplace, one fellow employee nicked the corner of an aluminum fence attached to the mitre gauge (or was it a cutting sled?) and triggered the stop while he was holding the mitre gauge. $200 down the drain in a split second (but we had spare cartridges around).

 

[live4ever]

I really wish I had gotten the industrial mobile base with my PCS back in 2009, but it wasn't as widely known that was such a great idea back then.  I have the PCS mobile base, which is just fine for the once-in-a-blue moon I need to move the saw but not nearly as slick as the industrial. 

As far as a Sawstop Owner's forum, that would be interesting.  I doubt they'd make it part of FOG, but rather perhaps its own site off the main Sawstop site.  It does beg the question though to what extent they will merge the branding of SS/Festool or keep them as relatively separate entities with a common parent.

 

[ChuckM]

I really wish I had gotten the industrial mobile base with my PCS back in 2009, but it wasn't as widely known that was such a great idea back then.  I have the PCS mobile base, which is just fine for the once-in-a-blue moon I need to move the saw but not nearly as slick as the industrial. 

I suppose you already knew that you could still convert yours to an industrial mobile base by buying their upgrade kit, if you want to. The conversion is pretty simple by following the instructions that come up the kit. May be someone has shown it on YouTube as well.

 

[live4ever]

I know a Canadian or two too... [tongue]

I think this thread is also a good place for a discussion of extraterrestrial life.  Would aliens use Sawstop, or would the technology be useless on alien flesh?  We know it would work if they are hot-dog based lifeforms...

 

[ChuckM]

I worked with a French Canadian from Quebec around 2008 to 2009.  When I asked him what he thought of the Canadian health care system, he said two things: 
1. Canadian health care system does not triage walk-in emergency room patients.  He had a friend that lost two fingers because someone started the car while he was working under the hood.  His mates rushed him to the emergency room with his cut off fingers carefully saved.  By the time it was his turn in the emergency room, the doctors said it was too late to sew them back on.
2. The only reason the Canadian health care system "works" is because 90% of the population lives within a two hour drive of the U.S.

Never lived in Quebec for more than one week and certainly can't speak for his health care system (the provincial health systems are different in Canada). Don't know if his system has remained the same since 2009, either. My provincial health services have adopted triage screening for many many years in an effort to improve quality of care and to reduce waiting times which are a key factor in monitoring service commitments. Waiting times for acute care, diagnostic (MRI, etc.) services, etc. are all accessible to patients in my province so we can tell how good or bad we do, compared to other provinces.

If a Canadian travels to the US and gets sick, the provincial governments in general do not cover the treatments incurred by the traveler. The Canadian traveler is responsible for the bills charged by the US care giver. A Canadian who goes to get an MRI from a US diagnostic center pays. e.g, for his or her flights, hotel, and MRI charge (about $500 - $1000 US, more depending on the exact MRI performed).

A few years ago, a Canadian mom on vacation in the US gave birth to a baby (weeks ahead) which required NICU care. They were hit with a $950K bill (almost 1 Mn!) that their insurance company refused to cover. Google should be able to find that piece of news with ease.

So it doesn't matter whether one lives within two hours or twenty minutes from the US border, one cannot use the US medical services for free or expect them to reimbursed by the Canadian government, unless the Canadian health care system sends the patient over.

As far as I know, 95% (probably more) of Canadians receive their regular healthcare service from their provincial health care systems in Canada and that figure 90% of pop. living close to the US has no practical relevance here.

Now, are the majority of Quebecers (90% of them?) rich enough to get their treatments across the border by default? I am 99.9% sure they aren't. I'd like to be proven by any record that I am wrong here.

 

[ChuckM]

I know a Canadian or two too... [tongue]

I think this thread is also a good place for a discussion of extraterrestrial life.  Would aliens use Sawstop, or would the technology be useless on alien flesh?  We know it would work if they are hot-dog based lifeforms...

Perhaps some aliens have a self-healing function as we see in some movies. rendering the SawStop feature a piece of useless thing to them!  [big grin] [tongue]

 

[cpw]

Didn't it make you wonder why such a simple feature has been ignored by so many other manufacturers of heavy woodworking machinery? Perhaps under the new ownership, SawStop or Festool will start looking into adapting all of SawStop strengths (not just the finger-saving tech.) to other machines (inside and outside Festool).

Minimax has Johnson bar based mobility kits for 930lb machines (combo jointer/planer).  If there was a hydraulic mobile base like the SS one that was adjustable to it's size, I would buy it in a heartbeat.  I understand how for them it might be an afterthought, not aiming quite so squarely at the hobbyist market where space and mobility are at more of a premium.

But, heck, it doesn't even need to be the manufacturer that decides to do that.  There are plenty of third party mobile bases too; like the one I had for the RIDGID jointer the Minimax replaced.

 

[Deke]

Alas, I should have known the discussion would veer into many topics. I work in healthcare and that included exposure to some superior OR efficiency techniques in Canada. There are no shortage of problems in the US as well. I try to be optimistic.  Different countries (let alone hospitals within any given country) do some things quite well and we can all learn from each other. 

I was sort of joking about thinking about the cost of a cartridge and blade while sawing. The primitive part of my brain focused on self preservation is still the main factor in keeping my hand away from the blade! 

Hope this helps anyone considering any Sawstop cabinet saw, from 1.75 vole up to the industrial, in considering the industrial mobile base.

Thanks for the news on Festool and Sawstop. I am out of the loop, but it will be interesting. Politics on patent law, enforcing safety technology and other opinions aside, these are two very innovative companies, so it will be interesting. I often use Festool as an example of the best "user centered design" around - too many people think Apple (who have slipped) and others, but Festool is, IMO, superior. Think about it. Beyond all the super clever engineering, they took their branding (the color green) and incorporated that into the usability of their tools by making every single tool control green. That is ridiculously smart (and I see other tools copying this all the time now, though hardly ever as clever).