SawStop Video

Fred, obviously you're the only one that can answer this question. I think there are several ways to look at it. Is having the 240 voltage in your work space a good investment in itself? Are you going to want 240v for a table saw other than a Sawstop? Are there going to be other larger 240v stationary tools in your future? The next set of questions are about the Sawstop. They are very nice saws without factoring in the brake system. Contractor or cabinet, to me this is a no brainer. If you have the space go for the cabinet saw. These things are quality saws so I imagine the resale value will be pretty good in the future you decide to sell.   
 
Another thing to consider is adding the 240v circuit yourself.  There is not much to it and you can quite easily learn all that you need to know by reading one of the many good books on the subject.  I am partial to "Wiring a House" by the Taunton Press.  I hate to see competent folks pay too much to do something that they could do themselves.  You are talking maybe 150.00 dollars in materials and morning to do it.  For the last house that I built, I did the entire wiring job.  I passed inspections with no problem and I simply read that book and followed the instructions.  Something to think about.
 
Brice,

At the moment I'm not planning anything else that needs 240V.  My jointer is 120v and I expect that a lunch box planer would be 120v as well when I get around to buying one.  Obviously it would be nice to have the 240v option if I ever need it for anything else, but for the few hours a month I spend in my shop its difficult to justify that much larger of an expense.  After all, you can be a fair amount of Festools for $2100.  I've definitely decided to go w/ the sawstop, just a matter of picking the contractor or cabinet saw.  Both are a bit large for my shop, but according to the dealer and the specs they have the same footprint so there's no much help in making my decision there.  All things being equal I'd prefer the CS because of its claimed 99% dust - doubt the extra power would be important to me very often, but $2100 is a steep jump for dust collection.

Dane,

I would do the wiring myself if my main panel was big enough to just add a breaker and run a line to a new subpanel, but I have to tie the line for the subpanel into the main off the meter and I'm not comfortable attempting that.  I only have 100 amp service for the house and don't have any empty breaker slots.  I suspect that's why the price is so high.  I need to get another couple quotes, but I don't think it will make much difference.  I've used the same company before for a generator transfer switch and quotes from other electricians were comparable for that job.  $1300 was for a 60 amp subpanel, price jumped to over $1600 for a 100 amp panel.

Fred
 
Oh, yeah that is a bit of a tougher wiring project.  Well, one more thing to think about would be having the electrician just upgrade your panel to a 200amp.  Sounds like he will essentially be going through that process anyway, and it is always nice to have room in the panel.  Then you could take it from there with a nice clean panel to work with.  I guarantee half the cost of that job is him just pulling wire across the whole house to get to the shop.  Something you could take off his hands over a weekend.  I can never bring myself to pay someone 60.00/hour to yank wire around.
 
Do you have an electric dryer circuit in the basement? how 'bout an electric water heater circuit?  Essentially I'm asking if you already have a 240V circuit in there available.  In my garage, I have 3 240V tools and run a 240V A/C in the summer (so it is just a shady version of hell instead of all-out hell).  All of them are off my hot water heater, which is a 30A circuit.  Only 1 tool runs at a time and my hot water heater timer is off during the day (plus it has an override on the timer so very easy to shut off).  The A/C runs all the time, but its load combined with 1 tool is within the 30A circuit.

In my case, I added the receptacles right by the water heater and ran extensions I made for 240V (12g extensions you can get at HF, cut the ends off, wire in a male and female plug; 15 minutes tops each).

The suggestion for "Wiring a House" by Taunton Press is a good one although I will say the edition I have was pretty lacking in 240V details.
 
Joe,

My original plan, when I first started thinking that I might seriously consider spending enough money to buy a better saw to replace my Ryobi BT3000 was to buy a bosch 4100 w/ digital fence.  But then I saw the saw stop saws and even their contractor saw looks to be so much better quality than the bosch.  It uses the same 60mm bearings their cabinet saw uses and it weighs 365 lbs with the cast iron wings and bies style fence - certainly not a very portable saw - compared to the 426 lbs of the cabinet saw.  I'm guessing that even the contractor saw will feel like a cadillac compared to my yugo Ryobi, but I've not had a chance to actually try one anywhere.

But then I noticed that the cabinet saw has a dust port on the shroud under the blade and another dust port on the blade guard above the blade.  They're claiming 99% dust collection - so taken with a grain of salt even if its 80-85% in real usage, that's festool type dust collection.  From individual reports on SMC and JLC it sounds like the contractor saw is a bit better than 50% dust collection, and while not bad compared to many saws, will still put a lot of dust into my basement for the furnace to distribute to the rest of the house.

Dane,

Thanks for the tip on the book.  Based on your comment I plan to ask the electrician to give me a quote on just wiring a simple box with main breakers only at the meter and then I can run the wire down to the basement and install a subpanel.  I couldn't agree more about paying 60/hr to pull wire.  Shouldn't take me more than an hour or two to pull the wire, as I have good access to almost every area.

Paul,

I asked the electrician about using the electric stove circuit that runs into my shop area before it goes up through the floor into the kitchen, but he told me because its 3 wire and code requires 4 wire he wasn't able to use that feed to hookup a subpanel, but that's another thought.  It may be good enough to extend the stove feed and wire a socket for the saw at the end of the extension.

Thanks for the input guys.

Fred
 
Well spotted, Peter.  Thanks for the heads up.

Thankfully I have the 2nd edition that doesn't contain the errors.  I did a bit of research on what the issue was and it looks like whomever the photo editor was mis-labeled two photographs in the 3rd edition.  One has the neutral and ground wire labels reversed and the other has the upstream and downstream labels reversed- both related to wiring a GFCI.

I still contend that Rex Cauldwell is the best writer on the subject, hopefully they will reissue the book with the photos corrected.
 
I second the comment about Rex Cauldwell... excellent writer on electrical -and- plumbing (even if his 'above code' stance on installing plugs upside-down seems a bit too excessively "let us hold your hand and protect you from the most unlikely of situations").

Ah, yes, sorry, I missed that you were wanting a subpanel.  For that you indeed need both hots, neutral and ground.  If you are able to tap off of it to make a plug outlet then make your own extension, you are set.
 
An interview with Steve Gass, developer of Saw Stop, will be broadcast at around 1:30 PM EST here. You can listen to it at any time after via the same link.
 
bruegf said:
As I mentioned above, I've been seriously thinking about the sawstop and have a question regarding which model.   As many hobbyists do, I have a limited area for shop space.   The space is also severely power challenged, no 220V feeds anywhere in the area and not even enough 110 outlets for good load balancing.  Turning on my current Ryobi BT3000 table saw tends to dim the florescent lights for a second.

I was leaning towards the new contractor sawstop model as it is also 110V, but have been wondering whether I would regret not getting the 3hp professional cabinet saw in the long run.   I've worked a bit with 8/4 stock but most of the things I've done use either 3/4 sheet material or 4/4 solid stock.
Click to expand...

I have seen talk that there will be a portable SawStop sometime this year in the $1000 ballpark. It will be interesting in conjunction with a track saw.

 
While I appreciate the technology for what it is, I believe TS accidents can be prevented by operators following standard powertool safety practices. Its simple - keep your fingers or any appendages of value to you FAR away from spinning blades. Use push sticks, etc. I never take unnecessary risks on the tablesaw, afterall It is cheaper to replace a workpiece than it is to sew a finger back on. In my world I could never justify the added expense of the Sawstop - but that's just me. Besides, I've heard that the inventor of this machine is a lawyer who is pushing legislation to make the device mandatory on ALL manufacturers saws. I'm not ok with that.
 
I'm not in favor of mandating the technology either, but after having owned the SS contractor version for almost 2 years now, I've not once regretted buying it.  Its a quality piece of equipment and the safety factor is a huge plus.

Fred
 
I'm certain it is a well built & safe machine and I'm glad the owners of Sawstop enjoy their tool - I just don't want to be told that I HAVE TO buy it. I like the choices offered in a free market. We have enough regulations as it is in this society. If I am willing to take the risk of cutting off my fingers then I should be able to do so and I can assure you that I would not sue the saw manufacturer if I did (unlike the idiot in the Ryobi incident). Its called accountability for your actions. Something that is sadly lacking in our current world.
 
BarBuilder said:
I'm certain it is a well built & safe machine and I'm glad the owners of Sawstop enjoy their tool - I just don't want to be told that I HAVE TO buy it. I like the choices offered in a free market. We have enough regulations as it is in this society. If I am willing to take the risk of cutting off my fingers then I should be able to do so and I can assure you that I would not sue the saw manufacturer if I did (unlike the idiot in the Ryobi incident). Its called accountability for your actions. Something that is sadly lacking in our current world.
Click to expand...

Okay fine, just as long as people do have an accidents pay for all the medical costs out of their own pocket.  Face it we all end up paying for the free choice for someone to cut their fingers off.  Safety standards move forward slowly because of attitudes like you've expressed here. 

I understand the urge to resist change that might cost us more money.  However, it's not like we aren't going to be getting something very valuable in return, that is increased safety that might just save our fingers/hand and our careers in the event of an accident.  Add to that the possibility of lower insurance premiums.  I thing it would help in we started to look past the knee jerk reactions to mandated safety and focus more on what we are getting in return..... 
 
"Okay fine, just as long as people do have an accidents pay for all the medical costs out of their own pocket."

Please refer to my statement about personal accountability. This includes covering the financial impacts of ones decisions. I do not expect society to cover the cost of a careless act.
 
BarBuilder said:
"Okay fine, just as long as people do have an accidents pay for all the medical costs out of their own pocket."

Please refer to my statement about personal accountability. This includes covering the financial impacts of ones decisions. I do not expect society to cover the cost of a careless act.
Click to expand...

You mean you'll pay (or try to pay back) what your health insurance doesn't pick up.  I don't know your personal finances but I doubt you could afford to pay the bill racked up by a serious table saw injury.  I'd bet you'd be talking well over a million bucks.  Besides, it's easy to talk tough when you're still typing with all digits.  You'd probably feel a lot different if you're were ever unfortunate enough to experience an accident.   
 
I looked really hard at the SS professional as well as the Hammer slider.  They weren't all that different cost wise but I ended up ordering the Hammer.  The sliding table, especially when used with a clamp, will keep my hands several inches away from the blade.  The fence can also be slid forwards and backwards so there is no way a cut off piece can be caught between the blade and the fence and become a projectile.  I'm somewhat surprised the Powermatic's of the world, aka, American iron, have not developed their own true Euro slider.  In the end, any woodworking machine demands the ultimate in respect, not doing so invites disaster.  I have made a couple of mistakes along these lines and I'm lucky I still have all my digits, albeit with a couple of new scars.  Never again...
 
Brice - I believe that no matter what my response is, you will continue to make assumptions about me and my situation, financial or otherwise. I believe it is a mistake to make judgements about people you do not know personally and have only interacted with in cyberspace. Your judgements might just be inaccurate. Let's just say that we will have to agree to disagree on this topic. Maybe this is just one topic you happen to be very passionate about and while I respect that, I also disagree with it. I enjoy the idea of an unencumbered market full of choice. Let the consumer decide what is right for them. All choices will have consequences. Accepting those consequences means being accountable for them. I do not need the government to protect me nor do I expect them to pay for my lifestyle choices. I sincerely hope that you enjoy your sawstop if you own one but on the same token, I would hope that you could respect my choice not to own one or be forced to have sawstop (or a saw with their technology) as the only choice in the market.
 
BarBuilder said:
Brice - I believe that no matter what my response is, you will continue to make assumptions about me and my situation, financial or otherwise. I believe it is a mistake to make judgements about people you do not know personally and have only interacted with in cyberspace. Your judgements might just be inaccurate. Let's just say that we will have to agree to disagree on this topic. Maybe this is just one topic you happen to be very passionate about and while I respect that, I also disagree with it. I enjoy the idea of an unencumbered market full of choice. Let the consumer decide what is right for them. All choices will have consequences. Accepting those consequences means being accountable for them. I do not need the government to protect me nor do I expect them to pay for my lifestyle choices. I sincerely hope that you enjoy your sawstop if you own one but on the same token, I would hope that you could respect my choice not to own one or be forced to have sawstop (or a saw with their technology) as the only choice in the market.
Click to expand...

barbuilder said "I've heard that the inventor of this machine is a lawyer who is pushing legislation to make the device mandatory on ALL manufacturers saws."

barbuilder also said, "I would not sue the saw manufacturer if I did (unlike the idiot in the Ryobi incident)."

Do you also think in the well known broadly heard about case of the woman who spilled hot coffee in her lap she was just trying to extort money from McDonalds?
 
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