chelseaboy
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Sawstop - You have to watch this, AMAZING
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WarnerConstCo.
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The guy that made it is a lawyer, and is now trying to mandate that it be installed on all cabinet and hybrid type saws.
HowardH
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I need a new table saw and was seriously looking at the SS until I started doing some research on the Hammer B3 slider. You don't need a brake if you are sliding a table with the work piece clamped to it rather than moving the material itself. Hand's never get close to the blade. Just like the TS's. It appears to be a lot more accurate as well. It's a big bite cost wise but should be worth it in the long run.
Tim Sproul
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WarnerConstCo. said:
I'm not weighing into the whole bit about them trying to mandate.... but will offer this.
Volvo developed seat belts for autos. Is it a good or bad thing that all autos have seat belts?
I think it would be a good thing for a number of reasons. First in foremost the obvious safety reasons. Also on the list is maybe, just maybe it will drive a few hacks out of the business for the investment may be prohibitive. It is one thing to go to the Borg and buy a table saw for $149 it is another thing entirely to go buy one at $500+.
To go this one step further, and maybe just wishful thinking, the average Joe home owner will go back to hiring craftsmen when they realize that certain tools cost a small fortune.
Yes I realize that the SS costs well more than that. I was just throwing out some numbers ($149 for a cheap table saw & $350 worth of SS licensing & related mfg costs to go into it).
Caveat: I recently purchased a DeWalt tabletop sawDeWalt tabletop saw. Smallest model they make. I love the saw for what it is and how I use it. However if this saw were to employ SS technology and it ever engaged, how far would 2.25HP throw a 45pound saw off of the table it was sitting on? I am guessing it would make for a pretty good back-flip!
To go this one step further, and maybe just wishful thinking, the average Joe home owner will go back to hiring craftsmen when they realize that certain tools cost a small fortune.
Yes I realize that the SS costs well more than that. I was just throwing out some numbers ($149 for a cheap table saw & $350 worth of SS licensing & related mfg costs to go into it).
Caveat: I recently purchased a DeWalt tabletop sawDeWalt tabletop saw. Smallest model they make. I love the saw for what it is and how I use it. However if this saw were to employ SS technology and it ever engaged, how far would 2.25HP throw a 45pound saw off of the table it was sitting on? I am guessing it would make for a pretty good back-flip!
harry_ said:
And factories should hope that only industrial-grade machinery is available, so that the small contractors out there would not have a job anymore. And, no, I'm not a hack - I'm a hobbyst who can afford a variety of tools, but is not snobbish or stupid enough to look down on people because of how much they spend or don't spend on tools. There is a whole lot of "hacks" producing incredible work with very cheap tools and a lot of talentless hacks pretending to be something because they spent a small fortune on their tools. The truly big, professional guys do NOT hang out at forums, unless they stand to profit from their participation...
jonny round boy
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Tim Sproul said:
Of course seat belts are a good thing, but I've said it before, and I'll say it again here - Comparing seat belts with sawstop is not a fair comparison.
- Sawstop technology protects you from injuring yourself.
- A seat belt protects you from injuring yourself, but also protects you from injury caused by someone else's stupidity/neglect/lapse in concentration etc.
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I'm ambivalent about the whole thing but I would like to make an observation...
I've worked in a lot of different environments where the risk of injury was real - from construction sites & garages to chemical plants, to offshore rigs, to unloading/loading of ships, and engineering labs. I would have to guess that of all the injuries I've seen or sustained, about half of them were someone else's fault other than the injured.
There's nothing scientific about my method for drawing this conclusion but rather I've tried to add about 35 years of stuff up in my head and that's my recollection - that it's about 50/50 whether the fault was primarily with the injured.
If that observation is even half accurate, it lends some credence to greater safety requirements.
I don't think you can ever make something foolproof. There are too many fools that invent too many clever ways to be themselves.
I just think that for personal safety, one needs to watch out for the other actor as much as they watch out for themselves.
Tom
I've worked in a lot of different environments where the risk of injury was real - from construction sites & garages to chemical plants, to offshore rigs, to unloading/loading of ships, and engineering labs. I would have to guess that of all the injuries I've seen or sustained, about half of them were someone else's fault other than the injured.
There's nothing scientific about my method for drawing this conclusion but rather I've tried to add about 35 years of stuff up in my head and that's my recollection - that it's about 50/50 whether the fault was primarily with the injured.
If that observation is even half accurate, it lends some credence to greater safety requirements.
I don't think you can ever make something foolproof. There are too many fools that invent too many clever ways to be themselves.
I just think that for personal safety, one needs to watch out for the other actor as much as they watch out for themselves.
Tom
irvin00 said:
Irvin,
I think you took my intent further than I meant it. It was not to imply that strictly because one owns a high-end tool (s)he is a high end carpenter. Nor was it meant to mean that because one owns low end tools, you are a low end carpenter. A craftsman truly cares about the quality of the job that they doing, and can and will get it done regardless of the tools at hand. These are individuals that have a passion for what they can produce.
You have also presumed that $$$ is the only investment.
I was merely trying to suggest that maybe if a couple of tools were pricier for safety reasons, maybe the some would give pause to think about 'is this really what I want to be doing?'.
Am I a hack? Professionally, no. I have way too much at stake, not the least of which is my reputation. I would rather sub the task out or decline the job outright, than do it half-fast. I save my hacking for at home, when I am being a hobbyist like you, trying to master a new technique, tool or skill set.
And as for hanging out in forums,..... I do profit from my participation. I learn.
Jesse Cloud
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We have had sawstops at the school I go to for a couple of years now. There have been a couple of incidents. In one a finger was clearly saved. Personally, I'm glad they are there. Even skilled craftsmen get tired at the end of the day and do things they know they shouldn't. I have a buddy with 20 years in the cabinetmaking trade. Tripped over an offcut and fell into the saw. Put out his hand to break the fall and lost most of the hand. Now he has five years in the liquor store clerk trade.
I don't think the sawstop technology should be required, but hopefully someday it will be cheap enough that more of us can afford it.
We just starting getting saws with riving knives in the US a couple of years ago. I guess it added a little cost to the saws, but somehow the sky hasn't fallen yet. Sure beats the splitter.
I don't think the sawstop technology should be required, but hopefully someday it will be cheap enough that more of us can afford it.
We just starting getting saws with riving knives in the US a couple of years ago. I guess it added a little cost to the saws, but somehow the sky hasn't fallen yet. Sure beats the splitter.
CharlesWilson
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So how do you use that saw to cut aluminum? Or conductive plastic?
Love the Saw Stop idea as much as I despise the thought of making it mandatory (or lesser humans using it as a foundation for litigation to cover their own stupidity).
For me, safety features are important, if the SS was $50 extra, sure (a riving knife would cost a few dollars) but for hundreds of dollars, mandatory should not even come into it.
Given the woodworking/carpentry interest of FOG, everyone on here "knows a guy" who might have benefitted from something like the SawStop but I'd say everyone else knows another 99 guys who would never need it. Yes, accidents happen, but thats why they are called accidents.
What seems to be in short supply with those that seek to mandate anything is a sense of personal responsibility. That usually the part of most SawStop discussions that saddens me the most.
For me, safety features are important, if the SS was $50 extra, sure (a riving knife would cost a few dollars) but for hundreds of dollars, mandatory should not even come into it.
Given the woodworking/carpentry interest of FOG, everyone on here "knows a guy" who might have benefitted from something like the SawStop but I'd say everyone else knows another 99 guys who would never need it. Yes, accidents happen, but thats why they are called accidents.
What seems to be in short supply with those that seek to mandate anything is a sense of personal responsibility. That usually the part of most SawStop discussions that saddens me the most.
jonny round boy
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Mike B said:
So it has a safety system that you can turn off? That seems a dumb idea, and kinda defeats the object of the exercise. He's a lawyer & I'm not, but it seems to me that if a guy can successfully sue Ryobi 'cos he cut himself using one of their saws in a stupid way, then someone could turn the SS sensor off & say "I didn't realise it was turned off, and when I stuck my hand in my fingers fell off - give me $250k..."
What happens if you have an 'oops' whilst cutting conductive material?
jonny round boy
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harry_ said:
Baddum-tsh.....
bonesbr549
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jonny round boy said:
You buy a new cartridge get the blade repaired (forrest will reset teeth) and move on. I'd rather have that oops .vs. the oops dang, now I have less than 8 fingers and two thumbs. I'd get one if I had the money. For now I'll just keep on using the Grizzly 10" TS and being extra carefull and now using the TS55 for most things. I find myself using the TS less and less although it still is perfect for some operations.
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