Senco 21/23 gauge brad nailers?

[smorgasbord]

Been using my trusty old Hitachi 18-ga brad nailer for trim jobs (like baseboards), but thinking about going for a 21 and/or 23 gauge nailer where I don't need the 2" length and want a smaller hole. The 23-gauge would be for where I can't easily clamp something while the glue dries.

Senco introduced two 23-gauge and one 21-gauge nailers just a couple/few years ago that are oil-less. This is intriguing for me, I never like oiling my Hitachi and my oil-less compress has lasted decades (although I am replacing that with a quieter one).

Anyway, there aren't many reviews on the Sencos (models TN21L1, TN11L1, and TN11G1 - don't ask me why the 21 gauge is TN21L2 while the 23 gauge isn't TN23L1). Maybe they just haven't been around long enough, but anyone here use them?

I could just get the Metabo HPT NP35A, which is a 23-gauge pin nailer for $80. Apparently Metabo bought Hitachi's power tool division out some years ago.

I know the Cadex and Grex get pretty decent reviews, too, but like the idea of going oilless with the Sencos. I know many carpenters that swear by their Sencos, but also that perhaps their quality has gone down since Kyocera bought them out in 2017.

 

[rmhinden]

I purchased a DeWalt pneumatic 18 gauge pin nailer last year.  It is working well for me, and is oilless.  I have been thinking of getting the 23 gauge DeWalt nailer for the reasons you mention.

Before I got the DeWalt, I purchased a Metabo nailer, but returned it because I could get the depth adjustment to work.

Bob

 

[Packard]

I got an early 23 gage pneumatic nailer about 15 years ago.  For 1/2” nails, it’s great.  For 3/4” nails it is OK.  But I had frequent problems with longer nails.

The longer nails so much wants to follow the grain, that there is no telling where it will go, frequently deciding to exit the panels entirely.

I’ve pretty much supplanted it with conventional brads and a brad pusher, or with my 18 gage nailer.

However, if you are using resin moldings, the holes are small enough to get filled with the paint alone.

But mostly my 23 gage gathers dust.

 

[rst]

While I still use an ancient Senco 18ga stapler, 60-70s era, all my current air tools are Grex and I have no complaints.  I bought a 15ga Milwaukee  before they came out with the M18 compressor as my old Senco mini compressor had finally died.  When it died the plan was to convert to all cordless but now I plan to keep all my air tools for remote work, except that I recently bought the Milwaukee M12 23ga pinner to keep in the van for window repair.

 

[Packard]

I would note that I replaced my P-C 15 gage nailer with a battery powered Milwaukee.

I was remodeling a powder room and the pneumatic P-C made the room too crowded. I had a ladder, the compressor, a 15 foot hose, and I had to plug in from the kitchen as there was no wall outlet.

The point being, consider where and how you will be using equipment before deciding on how it should be powered.

I use my dowel jig at my workbench.  I use a corded drill for that.

Most of my sanding is done at my workbench. I’m not interested in a battery powered sander.

The world is too much in love with rechargeable batteries.

My old Logitech wireless keyboard  used 2 double A batteries.  The instructions said that they were good for three million keystrokes, and that there was no current draw when it was idle.

My new, more expensive, Apple wireless keyboard has a rechargeable battery. I’m to recharge once a week (recommended), and when the battery dies, I’ll have to toss it in the garbage.

What possible advantage is the rechargeable?

Oops.  Forgot to mention that Logitech recommended that I replace the batteries once a year, even if they were still going strong.

In any case, consider where and how you use the equipment.  Corded equipment is cheaper, never has to have batteries swapped out, an in terms of my drill, it spins faster without any inconvenient battery changes.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The one I have is an older model. 8F0001N It came before the oilless, but they are still available. I'm not entirely sure what the deal is though? The newer model is considerably cheaper, like $100 cheaper. When I bought mine in '19 it sold for $154, now that same unit sells for $271?
They call the older one "Industrial" but I don't really know what that means? I have had it nearly 4 years and it has never failed me, jambed etc. The one thing it won't do is shoot very short pins. There is a mechanism that locks the trigger which is controlled by the fact that pins are indeed installed, but it is high enough in the magazine that pins under 5/8" cannot depress it. This means that it will not fire them. It doesn't need to happen often for me, but it has been enough of a thing that I know about it.

My 18ga brad nailer is also Senco. FinishPro18mg It has been just as dependable.

The one I occasionally struggle with is the Cadex V2/21 It does jamb once in a while. For the most part it works fine. The jambs are always a mis-fire internally, where the pin just kind of crumbles. It never comes out to damage the workpiece. It's an easy fix, but does take a hex key, rather than a simple buckle. It comes in a Systainer that matches all of the Festool ones, even the color. Not sure how that works?

What is supposed to be better about oil-less? It's not like the regular ones are cumbersome. A drop or 2 once in a while, is all it takes.

 

[smorgasbord]

What is supposed to be better about oil-less? It's not like the regular ones are cumbersome. A drop or 2 once in a while, is all it takes.

No chance of oil getting onto your project is probably the main benefit. I admit adding oil hasn't been a problem for me for my old Hitachi, but my compressor is oil-less and that's been great.

I ordered the 21 gauge Senco. I'll report back after I've used it some. I think I'll do the combo Titebond III with interspaced cyanoacrylate glueing for clamping and not bother with the 23 gauge.

 

[jeh]

I use my 21 gauge Senco all the time instead of a pinner even though I have. It has a head but it is very small so more holding power.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have never had oil from a nail/staple gun foul anything. I wasn't even aware that this was an issue? I have seen exhaust ports from palm sanders get pretty wet from it though, so the potential is there. Sanders use a lot more air, for a lot longer periods of time though.
I worked in a body shop for years, long before I ever stepped into a cabinet shop. There I learned an abusive thing, that is very apparently common in that field. That is to never put oil into sanders....ever. If it happens to die prematurely, so be it. This eliminates one potential source of contamination/fisheyes.
I have continued with this practice to this day. My 5" palm-style random orbit sander and 2 of the 8" geared orbital sanders are all nearly 4 years old and have never been oiled beyond whatever the factory did to them.
I use them less in recent years because of my move into Festool, but they do still get used, probably about 20-25%. The 5" pneumatic is just so quick and easy to get out, that is happens, but I would rather use the ETS EC 125 for the dust extraction. The Rotex sanders have cut into the working time of the big 8"ers, but they really do excel at flattening large surfaces. (seams on solid surfaces)

The problem I find with 21ga nailers is that sourcing the nails is not as easy as the others.

 

[Packard]

The instructions on my pneumatic guns say to add a drop of oil to the inlet port before using. I’ve never seen any residue from that. 

I think my palm nailer suggested 3 drops.  But with that piece of equipment, I would never fret over any oil residue. 

I have Milwaukee 15 gage and 18 gage nailers that use batteries. Being free of the hose and compressor is mostly felt in tight spaces.  When there was plenty of room, I never minded the hoses.

My 15 gage angle nailer (Porter-Cable) had problems right from the beginning and I was glad to be able to retire that gun.  Feed problems were the main culprit, but each time required a $75.00 to $100.00 repair.  None were covered under warrantee.

The Milwaukee guns have been good, but the 15 gage angle nailer will not accept the maximum sized nail that it claims to shoot.  They simply won’t fit in the magazine.  The shorter nails are fine.

 

[smorgasbord]

The problem I find with 21ga nailers is that sourcing the nails is not as easy as the others.

Grainger, of all places, has Sencos at good prices:https://www.grainger.com/search?searchQuery=senco+21+gauge+brads&searchBar=true

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Amazon has a larger variety of Grex brand 21 gauge nails:https://www.amazon.com/Grex-Power-Tools-H8-50L/dp/B01MUDLY2V/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2LT0QWH9W192S

[attachimg=2]

 

[peacefulandpatriotically]

Can you all who use pins share when and why you use a 23 gauge instead of a 21 gauge pin?  Obviously, 21 gauge are large and have more holding ability but other than that, why wouldn't one use a few extra 23 gauge pins and save on time filling the holes?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=79298]peacefullyandpatriotically[/member] I do it in situations needing a little more length. I don't shoot 23ga pins any longer than 1 1/4". The gun I own won't even hold anything longer that 1 3/8". I did that on purpose though. It makes the entire tool far more compact. Even then it's not as small as the first one I had. It was a Senco too, that came in a kit with the baby compressor. At the time I got this one, those were not available.
There are several companies that make them up to 2", but it's not for me. That's the point where I go to 21ga. They are far more stable at those lengths. 23 ga pins can follow the grain of solid wood quite easily, even with best practice awareness, so I keep them short.
Also, once you start needing more length, you start to need more clamping power too. 21ga does that better for me.

[member=77266]smorgasbord[/member] I should have been more clear. "Locally" they are not so easy. You can buy 23ga at home centers, not 21ga. There is a Woodcraft store in my city, but it's not exactly convenient and the selection is not necessarily so good. I would bet that the volume of 21ga users is way lower than 23ga.
Grainger and good prices don't go together in the same sentence. As far as picking up locally, they have everything, sometimes mind blowing, but they are not known for competitive pricing.

 

[smorgasbord]

Grainger and good prices don't go together in the same sentence. As far as picking up locally, they have everything, sometimes mind blowing, but they are not known for competitive pricing.

Which is why I included screen shots of their current pricing. I compared that to Amazon's exact same item pricing, and Grainger was better, but you either pay for shipping or have to/get to pick up.

 

[peacefulandpatriotically]

[member=79298]peacefullyandpatriotically[/member] I do it in situations needing a little more length. I don't shoot 23ga pins any longer than 1 1/4". The gun I own won't even hold anything longer that 1 3/8". I did that on purpose though. It makes the entire tool far more compact. Even then it's not as small as the first one I had. It was a Senco too, that came in a kit with the baby compressor. At the time I got this one, those were not available.
There are several companies that make them up to 2", but it's not for me. That's the point where I go to 21ga. They are far more stable at those lengths. 23 ga pins can follow the grain of solid wood quite easily, even with best practice awareness, so I keep them short.
Also, once you start needing more length, you start to need more clamping power too. 21ga does that better for me.

thank you for the explanation, that was exactly what I was curious about.