Sharpening tools

[Sanderxpander]

Being new to woodworking I've been "told" (mainly by YouTube and various forums) about the importance of sharp tools. It's almost useless to buy chisels or planes if you have no way to sharpen them. The local store sold me a Japanese waterstone and one of those jigs to set and keep the angle on your blade. But reading about the process it honestly seems incredibly tedious - soaking the stone for at least 15 minutes before use, constantly managing the flatness of the soft stone and keeping both sides parallel etc., not to mention spending a lot of time actually sharpening items (with limited skill).

Thinking there must be an easier way I found the obvious Tormek machines which do seem faster but again with the stones and the water etc...
So another alternative seems the Robert Sorby ProEdge. Does anyone have one? Is this a quicker and more hassle free solution? Do you still get sharp clean edges? Are there other options as easy/quick, or even better?

By the way I appreciate that grinding/whetting by hand is part of the craft but there's only so much time in a day and I enjoy "making stuff" a lot more than I do "fixing" tools. I'm already annoyed having to square the fence on my miter saw etc.

 

[nclemmons]

I have quite a few stones and the Tormek.  I don't have the ProEdge and had never heard of it.

Tormek works really well for me when I want to go through and sharpen an entire range of chisels or knives.  It's worth it then to set it up, add water, true the stone and sharpen and then shift to burnishing with the leather wheel and honing compound.  It does an incredible job.

If I'm doing work on a project and only want to dress an edge while cutting a dovetail or paring something, I'll use my stones and make a few quick strokes to bring it back to sharpness.  Shapton stones you can spray with a little water.  Other stones I find I can work fine with a little water without soaking them for 15 minutes. 

My experience is to first get your tools sharp and then they are easier to KEEP sharp.  That's why I went with the Tormek as a base machine.

I'm sure the ProEdge might offer similar results but I have no experience with it.

The other tool I see mentioned from time to time is the WorkSharp.  I think you might search the Forum here and find some write-ups.  It's less money than the ProEdge or Tormek, but also looks to offer less flexibility in terms of what you can sharpen.

 

[Bob D.]

I can sharpen chisels and plane irons up to 2" wide, and lathe tools on my Worksharp.

 

[Bob Wolfe]

I keep my water stones in a appropriate sized Tupperware container of water, always soaked, use them as you need them. Just add a few drops of javex to the water to stop any growths. I keep mine in a heated shop or they would break if frozen. After you get an edge, you can touch it up when it dulls a bit using a strop with polishing/grinding compounds or on a felt wheel on a grinder charged with grinding compound. The grinder is faster but a strop works too.

A felt wheel on a grinder with grinding compound is the fastest way to put an edge on that I have found.

Putting a wicked sharp edge on a cutting tool is a satisfaction in itself, using the tool with the wicked sharp edge you put on is addictive. When you get good at it you become somewhat anal about dull tools including kitchen knives.....

BW

 

[huntdupl]

Make a kit, check Bob van Dyke everything in its place, sharpening should be a quick touch in go not a chore, except in the beginning. Sharpening IS tedious, no doubt about it, but taking the time to build a good foundation is key. Most of my planes and chisels are hand me downs or used from eBay, most require a fair bit of time.

Given the secondhand user aspect, if I could start from the beginning I would have invested in the Worksharp I think. Seems pretty straightforward and easy. I have the old school $12 honing guide which works fine.  Plate glass with adhesivebacked sand paper (Klingspor). No experience with stones, but I have a fair amount of gouges and sandpaper was familiar - didn't want to deal with flattening the stones for what it's worth.

I also use a FastTrack system by MPower, this makes touch-ups super quick and easy and quick to microbevel. I would also maybe save the $12 and invest in the Veritas guide, setup looks easy and I like the idea of wider roller. So again, start over, I would have maybe gone with Worksharp as a one-tool to master...lots of ways to skin a cat but this was my path.

 

[ear3]

I'd be interested to hear from those who find the worksharp to be a useful tool for doing plane irons.  I got one when I started working with a lathe a number of years ago, and I found it to be ok for my turning tools.  But I don't find it to be good for plane blades.  The wheel wobbles and is overly sensitive to pressure, and when you put a wide plane blade on it you are removing material at differing rates depending upon which part of the wheel is running across which part of the blade, which very quickly can ruin a square edge on the blade.  So I no longer even try to do plane blades with it.

 

[Sanderxpander]

That would rule it out for me as well. I don't currently have any need for rounded profiles but just want a quick hassle free way to sharpen (or fix) regular chisels and plane blades.

 

[RKA]

The simplest way (I think), without incurring additional large expense and more tools that require set up and maintenance, is probably adding a microbevel using the jig you already purchased.  That way you’re just touching up that tiny microbevel at each sharpening.  Add a few ceramic stones (shapton pros or glass stones) that don’t require pre-soak, just splash with water and go, plus a diamond plate (Atoma or DMT) to keep the stones flat.  And since each sharpening only removes a sliver of metal, Your stones don’t dish so quickly and the require less work to keep flat.  Each minor sharpening is 2 minutes, and when the microbevel becomes too large, 5-10 minutes to reshape the main bevel and add a new microbevel.  Initially, you will need a little more time to flatten the back.  You’re probably looking at $350 for 3 good stones and a lapping plate. 

Adding a hollow grind can also simplify the minor sharpenings, while also allowing you to eliminate the jig from your process (sharpen freehand), but you need a grinder of some sort the grind that shape into your bevels initially and periodically.  Without messing with a jig, you can touch up the blades with a handful of swipes before each use, so day to day sharpening is really quick.  You might consider paying someone to do this for you on an as needed basis if you don’t want to deal with a grinder (which is probably another can of worms).

 

[Sanderxpander]

Thanks for the advice! But honestly, if I'm looking at 350, for 50 more (in effect the price of the Veritas jig) I could get a Sorby ProEdge which seems way faster with almost no maintenance at all. Even so, thanks for laying out options, at least when I decide I'll know what I'm deciding!

 

[grbmds]

I've been through several phases with sharpening; all costing money of course. I currently own a Tormek (older version) which I haven't used in some time. I am, however, upgrading the square jig and the tool rest to the micro adjust because I think the Tormek is a good way to put a primary bevel on chisels and plane blades. Before I sell it for lack of use, I am giving it one more try.

I also own a Worksharp, which I do love. It is very easy to put an edge on a square blade. However, I found that, when I started flattening the backs of chisels and blades (never knowing it was needed until about 6 or so years ago), I found that the Worksharp tended to scratch my nicely polished chisel and blade backs; polished on an 8000 Shapton stone. The reason for this is the paper that is put on the tool rest to hold the chisel in place and remove the bur on the back. No matter what grit sandpaper I put on there it leaves scratches. I still use the Worksharp but for other sharpening.

So I now have invested in a set of diamond stones, a diamond lapping plate, and a 4000 and 8000 Shapton glass stone. Right now, since I generally don't need to create a fresh primary bevel I am using the stones to freshen the micro bevel and that doesn't take very long; the 4000 and 8000 Shapton stone taking all the real work out of it.

I'm not an expert in sharpening and especially not with the stones. However, I do own a Veritas MKII and recently bought the Lie Nielsen jig which came out about a year ago. The Veritas jig works OK, but sometimes it slips with larger blades because of the top holding screw. The side holding jig for smaller chisels works better. The Lie Nielsen should eliminate any slipping because it is a side-holding jig.

The best advice I ever read was to stick with one method and master it. If I had done that years ago, I'd be an expert by now. I think that method is hand-honing with a good jig and stones. Maybe the Tormek is a good tool for putting new primary bevels on a chisel or blade, but that is about all for me. Plus, I recently started turning and I think the Tormek (with extra jigs) might be the answer for gouges and skews, etc.

 

[ChuckM]

If this is the system you are referring to:

, I don't think it is a good system for sharpening chisels and plane blades:

- it might handle longer chisels or larger blades, but it would struggle otherwise.

It is basically designed for turning tools with some flexibility for other tools and as such, it is not one that I will use for chisels and blades.

There is no magic bullet when it comes to sharpening. You either use money (Tormek, e.g.) or develop skills (free hand, e.g.) to meet the needs, or take a hybrid approach. Any one of them will work once you take it up AND use it often enough.

I use a micro-bevel approach wiht free hand sharpening, but for change of angle, removing nicks or whatnot, I go with the grinder before finishing it freehand. I still believe and find hand sharpening gives a keener edge than with a machine, although the difference may not really matter in most of our work.

I have water stones, but use this set most of the time:http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=68943&cat=1,43072

- honing fast, no water, no maintenance (flattening) and long lasting, better than all other micro-film sandpapers I have tried.

For some hard-to-freehand-hone edges, I made my own jigs.

 

[Bob D.]

I'd be interested to hear from those who find the worksharp to be a useful tool for doing plane irons.  I got one when I started working with a lathe a number of years ago, and I found it to be ok for my turning tools.  But I don't find it to be good for plane blades.  The wheel wobbles and is overly sensitive to pressure, and when you put a wide plane blade on it you are removing material at differing rates depending upon which part of the wheel is running across which part of the blade, which very quickly can ruin a square edge on the blade.  So I no longer even try to do plane blades with it.

You can also do wide blades like plane irons and chisels on top.

 

[Josh F]

Torment here. I love the thing, plus so many attachment from drill bits to planar blades. I set it up once a month and sharpen everything. I work on sites out of a trailer or in the house when doing interior trim. When I finish my garage/ workshop it will be setup in there full time.

 

[Sanderxpander]

ChuckM, you said:
"I don't think it is a good system for sharpening chisels and plane blades:

- it might handle longer chisels or larger blades, but it would struggle otherwise.

It is basically designed for turning tools with some flexibility for other tools and as such, it is not one that I will use for chisels and blades."

Can you explain why? The basic version is marketed as perfect for flat stuff and you need a bunch of jigs for turning tools.

 

[Stone Message]

Being new to woodworking I've been "told" (mainly by YouTube and various forums) about the importance of sharp tools. It's almost useless to buy chisels or planes if you have no way to sharpen them. The local store sold me a Japanese waterstone and one of those jigs to set and keep the angle on your blade. But reading about the process it honestly seems incredibly tedious - soaking the stone for at least 15 minutes before use, constantly managing the flatness of the soft stone and keeping both sides parallel etc., not to mention spending a lot of time actually sharpening items (with limited skill).

Thinking there must be an easier way I found the obvious Tormek machines which do seem faster but again with the stones and the water etc...
So another alternative seems the Robert Sorby ProEdge. Does anyone have one? Is this a quicker and more hassle free solution? Do you still get sharp clean edges? Are there other options as easy/quick, or even better?

By the way I appreciate that grinding/whetting by hand is part of the craft but there's only so much time in a day and I enjoy "making stuff" a lot more than I do "fixing" tools. I'm already annoyed having to square the fence on my miter saw etc.

I had the top of the range Tormek, with all the extra gizmos, for a few years but realised it was a bind to set it up and clean everything after use each time. Don't get me wrong, the product is very good but it just took too much time.

I eventually was persuaded to try "Scarey Sharpening" which is simple, cheap and very effective. You just need a small rectangle of float glass (about £8 here in the UK), some diamond paper from 3M or someone similar and a honing guide.

Needless to say I made a couple of videos:

Part 1:

Part 2:

Some people use water but I prefer very fine oil to provide the lubrication. The Veritas honing guide is brilliant.

Peter

 

[ChuckM]

ChuckM, you said:
"I don't think it is a good system for sharpening chisels and plane blades:

- it might handle longer chisels or larger blades, but it would struggle otherwise.

It is basically designed for turning tools with some flexibility for other tools and as such, it is not one that I will use for chisels and blades."

Can you explain why? The basic version is marketed as perfect for flat stuff and you need a bunch of jigs for turning tools.

At 6:55 or so in the video, you can see the chisel tang is in contact with the jig. If the chisel blade was shorter, the edge wouldn't be getting sharpened at all.

You may also find it harder to sharpen smaller blades (apron & block planes) since the "jig" is basically a slider and you have to hold the blade with your hand.

Peter's post above (MKII) is another approach and one that I also used before developing the skill to sharpen freehand. (I still use that jig for back bevels.)

As I pointed out in my last post, any system will work if you stick to it once it works the first time. If you can take a sharpening class, you may be able to try out different systems before you decide.

 

[Sanderxpander]

Chuck, thanks, that does make sense, although tbh that is the shortest chisel I've ever seen (probably speaks to my experience), all of the ones I have seem to be at least twice as long.

Peter, yes those were my feelings about the Tormek too. Thanks a bunch for that video, that actually seems to make hand sharpening fast and easy. I already have the Veritas jig. I'll probably go that route then, I'm assuming the diamond paper won't set me back 150 bucks but I'll google it.

 

[Birdhunter]

I use a Worksharp for chisels and plane irons. I mark the cutting edge with a Magic Marker so I know cutting progress. I have not had a problem with the plane irons ending up off square. All my planes are L-N but I don’t know if that makes a difference.

I get a mirror finish with the Worksharp and the tools are amazingly sharp. I get shavings that are almost transparent.

I learned I have to be patient with the Worksharp. Pushing too hard and leaving the tool in contact with the abrasive too long can burn the metal. The correct technique is to push the tool against the abrasive for a few seconds then withdraw it for a few seconds.

I tried water stones, but found them both slow and messy.

 

[Jaybolishes]

Found my Tormek on Craigslist for $300. I collect old chisels and slicks and the tormek is so fast at grinding a beaten blade into one that can shave.  So many attachments to be had as well.

 

[Stone Message]

Chuck, thanks, that does make sense, although tbh that is the shortest chisel I've ever seen (probably speaks to my experience), all of the ones I have seem to be at least twice as long.

Peter, yes those were my feelings about the Tormek too. Thanks a bunch for that video, that actually seems to make hand sharpening fast and easy. I already have the Veritas jig. I'll probably go that route then, I'm assuming the diamond paper won't set me back 150 bucks but I'll google it.

When I started I bought some diamond paper from Lee Valley. I still have it and, if you are careful, it will last a long time.

I do not think that it cost very much either. When I sold my Tormek I got enough to buy diamond paper for the next 500 years !

Peter