Shelf pins, drawer slides, LR-32

[morts10n]

The holes for drawer slides are for use with 5mm euro screws, or #7 wood screws.... not #6 or #8 wood screws

 

[Sparktrician]

Remember to set the holes closest to the front at 37mm from the front edge of the cabinet sides, then space the second, third, etc., holes at predetermined gaps from the first hole as you progress toward the back of the cabinet, and all reference on the first hole at 37mm from the front.  One example would be the Accuride glides that I use.  You'll note that most gaps between hole lines are 128mm EXCEPT between the second and third hole lines where it drops to 96mm.  All the gaps are multiples of 32mm.  You'll note, too, that the fixed part of the glides set back roughly 2mm from the front of the cabinet when you have the first line of holes at 37mm from the front edge of the cabinet. 

Hole Gap Cumulative
1   37     37
2 128   165
3   96   261
4 128   389
5 128   517
6 128   645

In contrast, when you're boring for shelf pins, it's 37mm in from the cabinet front, 37mm in from the inside of the back panel, and a line centered between the front and rear holes.

 

[DynaGlide]

[member=72312]Rick Herrick[/member] Where are you located? LR 32 is best demonstrated in person. There are lots of videos out there but I didn't really get it all until I made some test pieces.

 

[sheperd80]

Ive been using the LR32 with OF1010 for a couple years now. I initially went down the rabbit hole of trying to incorporate everything into the 32mm system (shelves, drawer glides, and hinge plates). I absolutely love it for shelf pins. The holes are clean and perfectly aligned. But using it to mount doors and drawers is more trouble than its worth imo.

Your boxes have to be a certain height and depth for it to work properly. And the problem compounds when you have some doors hanging flush to the bottom of a cabinet, but others held up slightly, or sharing a horizontal partition, etc. Id much rather bore all my doors the same, and use a simple jig to mount them, or use face frame style hinge plates and no jig at all. Set door on a spacer, screw on the plates, done. Same with drawer glides. Its exponentially faster and easier.

I can make my boxes whatever size i want, just have to be sure to reference the LR32 end stops off the same end of a cabinet component when line boring front and back rows of holes. That way it doesnt matter if youre piece fits perfectly between the stops.

Once you get used to the setup of the LR32 its fast, easy, and near perfect.

YMMV

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[Cheese]

Here's a guide on using the 32 mm system.

[attachurl=1]

 

[Rick Herrick]

Remember to set the holes closest to the front at 37mm from the front edge of the cabinet sides, then space the second, third, etc., holes at predetermined gaps from the first hole as you progress toward the back of the cabinet, and all reference on the first hole at 37mm from the front.  One example would be the Accuride glides that I use.  You'll note that most gaps between hole lines are 128mm EXCEPT between the second and third hole lines where it drops to 96mm.  All the gaps are multiples of 32mm.  You'll note, too, that the fixed part of the glides set back roughly 2mm from the front of the cabinet when you have the first line of holes at 37mm from the front edge of the cabinet. 

Hole Gap Cumulative
1   37     37
2 128   165
3   96   261
4 128   389
5 128   517
6 128   645

In contrast, when you're boring for shelf pins, it's 37mm in from the cabinet front, 37mm in from the inside of the back panel, and a line centered between the front and rear holes.

This is great.  You are answering questions I wasn't sure how to ask.  This is very helpful.  Wish I had this info before I did the first set of cabinets.  Makes much more sense now. 

I had Accuride slides initially, self closing.  4 out of 10 would not engage the self closing mechanism.  I measured every which way I could and it was not perfect but all three drawers (1 per cabinet), fit in all three cabinets so I knew I was close.  There was no spec sheet with them and I went to the seller.  All he could tell me was to make sure everything was square...Thank you Mr. Obvious.  I did a test, holding the slide out and extending it fully and then let it drop, letting gravity do its thing.  The ones I had trouble with in the cabinets still would not engage, the 6 good ones did.  Not sure if thats a valid test but it seemed good to me so those went back.

I measured the holes on the ProSeries 20".  The first three holes match your chart and the forth was 453 which is 192 higher than previous hole of 261 (37, 165, 261, 453) so I think these slides should be easy to work with.

I had a set of Friho 18" (I tend to try several to get an idea which ones might be best).  The first hole was 35, definitely closer to edge than the ProSeries, but the subsequent numbers did come in at 32mm multiples (35, 99, 323, 387).  So, again, I think these can work for me and confirms that most of these slides should work for me but it will take some measuring/testing to set things up with the system before boring the holes.

I need to mock up some side panels and try again with this new information (and figure out how I am going to bore them going forward).  Appreciate your help and the chart.  Thanks again.

 

[Rick Herrick]

[member=72312]Rick Herrick[/member] Where are you located? LR 32 is best demonstrated in person. There are lots of videos out there but I didn't really get it all until I made some test pieces.

I am in Winston Salem.  Spent 20 years in Raleigh and then Wife's new job moved us here about 10 years ago.  As I have a lot of holes to do, I think the LR 32 type of system may bump my Domino purchase out a bit.  I had not planned to buy a new router for a while (have a DW618 right now) but I want to get that into a table set up and leave it there.  If I buy a new router, I think the 1010 may be just right.  The 1400 may be overkill.  But I need to get a full understanding of what all hardware I need for these holes.  Obviously I need the 1010 and the 55" track with holes.  I'll need to figure out how to use that for the spacing for both drawers and shelves.

 

[Rick Herrick]

Ive been using the LR32 with OF1010 for a couple years now. I initially went down the rabbit hole of trying to incorporate everything into the 32mm system (shelves, drawer glides, and hinge plates). I absolutely love it for shelf pins. The holes are clean and perfectly aligned. But using it to mount doors and drawers is more trouble than its worth imo.

Your boxes have to be a certain height and depth for it to work properly. And the problem compounds when you have some doors hanging flush to the bottom of a cabinet, but others held up slightly, or sharing a horizontal partition, etc. Id much rather bore all my doors the same, and use a simple jig to mount them, or use face frame style hinge plates and no jig at all. Set door on a spacer, screw on the plates, done. Same with drawer glides. Its exponentially faster and easier.

I can make my boxes whatever size i want, just have to be sure to reference the LR32 end stops off the same end of a cabinet component when line boring front and back rows of holes. That way it doesnt matter if youre piece fits perfectly between the stops.

Once you get used to the setup of the LR32 its fast, easy, and near perfect.

YMMV

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Thanks for another good vote for LR32 and the 1010.  I used the Kreg 35mm hinge jig on my first cabinets and frankly, it did just fine so I will probably continue that.  I had also tried the Kreg drawer slide jig.  It kind of worked but whether on the cabinet or the drawer, the jig kind of bounced around a bit and I just didn't trust it.  Once I had one drawer done, I just did measurements of it and tried to duplicate them.

But I do want to figure out the LR32 wrt to both slides and shelves.  I think this will be a very cool tool/set up once I can figure it out.  I am trying to make my version of the Paulk bench but without saw horses.  I want a full size 4x8 table and I want it use it for about 80% of what I want to do.  But I have about 20" of height between the base and the Paulk torsion box that I need to fill up with drawers, systainer slots, organizer bins, etc, etc.  So I am trying to figure out the LR32 system so maybe I can use it on all of those side panels I need to make.

You mentioned this..."Same with drawer glides. Its exponentially faster and easier."  Can you elaborate a little more there?  I am with you on the doors/hinges but not sure what system you use that make your slides quicker.  Thank you for your information.  Rick

 

[Rick Herrick]

Here's a guide on using the 32 mm system.

[attachurl=1]

Thank you Cheese, reading it now.

 

[Cheese]

FWIW...I own both the 1010 and the 1400. The 1010 is my go-to router choice, it's used 80% of the time. Plenty of power, light & easy to maneuver I use it with 1/4" & 8 mm bits. I'd probably give up the 1400 before I'd give up the 1010.

 

[Brice Burrell]

As a LR32 user of many years I'd like to offer some general advice.

Here's the short version.  The good, the LR32 is capable of producing professional results.  The bad, there is a steep learning curve.  The ugly, many people will never use this tool enough to even learn how to properly use it, let alone get enough use out of it to justify the expense.

The first piece of advice is to do plenty of research before buying anything.  The LR32 may be the right choice for you, however, there are a lot of options for hole drilling out there that could fit your needs better.  The LR32 is a semi-production tool intended for professionals, and it has a price tag to match.  For a professional it might be a good investment, for the hobbyist this tool is an epic indulgence (no judgement intended, its your money, do as you like with it).  Ask here, and/or go to another forum to see what others are using.  The more you know going in the better.

This next bit is for the people that don't already understand how to use cabinet hardware.  This is another area with a fairly steep learning curve.  I don't intend to ruffle feathers here but the people that suggest you to look into 32mm systems, forget that.  Few people seem to understand the design intend behind these "systems".  These systems are designed for production shops to be used for line boring machines.  The intent is for a one size fits all design, so the employees don't spend time setting up/adjusting the equipment.  These systems are designed so the employees don't have to think, they only pull a lever.  This is great for mass production of set line of products, but offers little to no design flexibility for your projects.  The people that can make good use of the LR32 aren't in mass production.  You'll want flexibility for you projects, and the 32mm systems just don't allow for that.

My advice is to figure out what hardware you want to use, then understand how it works/is installed.  Once you understand the hardware you can figure if you can make the LR32 work.  The bad news is the LR32 doesn't always work gracefully with the different types of hardware.  This is the roadblock that many people run into.  This can be a very frustrating stage in the learning process to overcome.  This is why I can't stress enough that you need to do your homework before you invest a ton money.

If you decide on the LR32. As I said the learning curve is steep.  There is a pretty good chance you'll make a major mistake on your first attempt, so be sure to practice on scraps first. You won't even understand the advice on how to best use this tool until you've grasped the basics of its use.  Read, watch videos, practice, then reread and rewatch the videos, practice so more.  There are a lot of small details to figure out, and you won't understand that until you go through it.  The good news is once you get the hang of things the results can be top notch.

Best of luck to anyone embarking on this journey.
   

 

[sheperd80]

Ive been using the LR32 with OF1010 for a couple years now. I initially went down the rabbit hole of trying to incorporate everything into the 32mm system (shelves, drawer glides, and hinge plates). I absolutely love it for shelf pins. The holes are clean and perfectly aligned. But using it to mount doors and drawers is more trouble than its worth imo.

Your boxes have to be a certain height and depth for it to work properly. And the problem compounds when you have some doors hanging flush to the bottom of a cabinet, but others held up slightly, or sharing a horizontal partition, etc. Id much rather bore all my doors the same, and use a simple jig to mount them, or use face frame style hinge plates and no jig at all. Set door on a spacer, screw on the plates, done. Same with drawer glides. Its exponentially faster and easier.

I can make my boxes whatever size i want, just have to be sure to reference the LR32 end stops off the same end of a cabinet component when line boring front and back rows of holes. That way it doesnt matter if youre piece fits perfectly between the stops.

Once you get used to the setup of the LR32 its fast, easy, and near perfect.

YMMV

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Thanks for another good vote for LR32 and the 1010.  I used the Kreg 35mm hinge jig on my first cabinets and frankly, it did just fine so I will probably continue that.  I had also tried the Kreg drawer slide jig.  It kind of worked but whether on the cabinet or the drawer, the jig kind of bounced around a bit and I just didn't trust it.  Once I had one drawer done, I just did measurements of it and tried to duplicate them.

But I do want to figure out the LR32 wrt to both slides and shelves.  I think this will be a very cool tool/set up once I can figure it out.  I am trying to make my version of the Paulk bench but without saw horses.  I want a full size 4x8 table and I want it use it for about 80% of what I want to do.  But I have about 20" of height between the base and the Paulk torsion box that I need to fill up with drawers, systainer slots, organizer bins, etc, etc.  So I am trying to figure out the LR32 system so maybe I can use it on all of those side panels I need to make.

You mentioned this..."Same with drawer glides. Its exponentially faster and easier."  Can you elaborate a little more there?  I am with you on the doors/hinges but not sure what system you use that make your slides quicker.  Thank you for your information.  Rick

For drawer glides, i first install horizontal dust frames, stacking them on a shop made spacer at the appropriate height for the drawer size, so they all come out even. Then i place the glide on that dust frame and screw the front end through one of the slotted holes. Then square the glide up to the box face, clamp it with an automax and screw the back end, also in a slotted hole. Then use a combo square to set the glide back 1/8" (for 1/2" drawers) from the face of the cabinet box, then screw into one of the non-slotted holes to fix it in place.

This way drawer placement is not dictated by the line boring. If i were mass producing standard sized boxes, i would probably by a line boring machine and use the 32mm system to mount drawer glides, but for custom cabinets i prefer my current method.

Sorry if this is unclear, it can be hard to describe these processes at times.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[sheperd80]

Brice is spot on about the learning curve. The first few times i used it i spent a half hour trying to figure out how to set the end stops correctly, and still goofed a few pieces.

Im now using it in a somewhat dumbed-down way but its perfect for what im doing. I can set it up quickly and crank out panels.

Its kind of niche in that its not needed for most hobby work, and not fast enough for production. My shop is in that gray area where its a perfect fit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[Lincoln]

Totally agree with Brice re. the 32mm System - have never understood why people want holes from top to bottom, inside their cabinets. Looks anything but custom made. Personally, if I were to use the LR32, I'd want it permanently set up, sort of like the 'Schmitt' jig.

 

[Coen]

You can make the holes any diameter you like. 4mm and 6mm bits are also available. But 5mm is the default option.

For LR32 use the 1010 is just best. The 1400 only adds weight...

Totally agree with Brice re. the 32mm System - have never understood why people want holes from top to bottom, inside their cabinets. Looks anything but custom made. Personally, if I were to use the LR32, I'd want it permanently set up, sort of like the 'Schmitt' jig.

I don't understand why wouldn't. If you rearrange stuff it's a pain to have to drill new holes.

 

[Rick Herrick]

As a LR32 user of many years I'd like to offer some general advice.

Here's the short version.  The good, the LR32 is capable of producing professional results.  The bad, there is a steep learning curve.  The ugly, many people will never use this tool enough to even learn how to properly use it, let alone get enough use out of it to justify the expense.

...
...
...

Best of luck to anyone embarking on this journey.
 

Hi Brice, thanks for taking the time to share this information.  I truly understand what you are trying to say and I appreciate you bringing it up. 

I would be the first to admit that my current woodworking skills no where near justify my tool expenses over the last 2 months or those coming up in the next 2 months.  I am not a professional and maybe not even a hobbyist.  I am trying to get ready for retirement and I want to enjoy the crap out of woodworking. 

My house has a tremendous lack of storage so I hope to design and build a lot of cabinets both for inside the house and in my garage workshop.  I also want to replace most of our furniture with my own, hopefully inspired, Mid Century pieces.  I may be wrong but I don't think shelf holes play a big part in MC furniture but making all the cabinets for my shop could benefit.

I have no problem using the Kreg jig for shelf holes but I hate the quality of the hole that their bits provide.  But I would say thats NO reason to spend mucho $$ on the FT system.  I made a lot of errors doing my first 3 drawers for my wife's cabinets but I feel I know a ton more than I did when I started so I can do without the 32mm system.  I have a better idea of what needs to be done the old fashioned way.

As I understand it, I need a router, a track with holes (do I really need a track with holes ?) and probably the LR-32 kit.  I could use a new router and another, shorter track would be nice.  I finally spent a while with my new TS55 this weekend.  I never had so much fun breaking down 3 sheets of plywood.  Right now the only real choice is whether to get the LR32 kit (~ $550), nothing else is lost. 

I do like the idea, especially in the garage, to put lots of holes in side panels so I can make a change from a shelf to a drawer at a later date.  I also enjoy the math and drawing things up. 

I have already learned a great deal from others here, just in this thread.  I may use it all, maybe not, but I like building my knowledge base.

The one key point here is that I am in a sort of unique position.  We both make decent money, don't have a big house and have nice cars that are paid for.  So for the rest of this year we have the 'extra' money to spend, before retiring so I want to get what I can so that the rest of my life is spent doing some fun stuff for my wife and our house.  Instead of learning and then buying good stuff, I am doing it in reverse order...

Your point about figuring out hardware is really the key for me.  Thats one of my biggest challenges.  I don't want to over complicate things so I would like to settle on a couple of types and move on.  But figuring out those few types is a little frustrating.  I bought a bag of 35mm door hinges for about $1.50 a piece.  I think that turned out to be a bonehead move.  They were easy to install but they have 2 way adjustments, instead of 3.  I have seen many other hinges that simply disconnect to remove the door.  I like those.  But I have heard the Blum catalog is huge so I need to find ones that folks have used and are happy with.  I think a $1.50 hinge is probably not the best but I don't want to spend $20 a piece either.

Do I need this system, nah, do I even want it, maybe.. 

I may or may not get the LR32, but its fun trying to figure it out.  I would say that 75% of the reason I jumped on the FT bandwagon was the dust collection.  If the dust collection on the 1010 is as good as the ETS EC 125 and the TS55, then it will fit right in.

Again, I appreciate you bringing the voice of reason and experience to this topic.  It has been very helpful.

 

[Coen]

The dustcollection on the OF 1010 is excellent. The dust channels are integrated in the base of the router, so no floppy plastic. If you want, you can add a plastic lid (with a small hole for the router bit) so even less dust escapes.

You do need the rail with holes; how else are you exactly going to position the router? Well, I guess you can make some other way of doing that, like using a normal guide stop and then putting sticks of 32mm in front of the stop...

You do not need to buy the whole set though. If you have the regular guide rail adapter you can make the springloaded pin thingy yourself. I think someone posted photos of that on the forum before. That saves a bunch of $$. You do miss out on some other edge guides, but those are not as essential as the guide rail plate and the holey rail.

 

[jeffinsgf]

I don't often tout the company I work for here, and I will share that I am personally thinking about a holey rail and an LR-32 myself, but...(you knew that was coming, didn't you?)...the Woodpeckers Shelf Pin Jig might be an alternative to look at. I used it and my OF-1000 to make 32mm system holes in some shop cabinets. It uses a guide bushing to locate the router, instead of locking in along the rail holes. The 5mm holes punched by the little router are pristine and lightning fast compared to using a drill.

So why am I thinking about getting the LR-32? Sadly, I love gadgets and that one has always drawn my attention. But also, the Woodpeckers template requires pretty frequent movement along the workpiece to continue the pattern. I would love to clamp the rail down once and do a whole cabinet side instead of clamping the jig three times.

If I were tooling up to the extent you are, I would look at the Shelf Pin Jig as a way to put a few hundred dollars into other tools while still accomplishing a professional result. Personally, I am fully equipped and stepping up to the LR-32 -- which I haven't done yet nor convinced myself I should -- is a luxury of convenience.

 

[xedos]

Rick, given your stated situation and list of current tooling - I think you've missed a very important consideration already given by JimH.

The mafell dd40 should be given a good look for all of the holes you say you need to bore.  In addition to boring twice as fast , it can also be set up for 8 or 10mm holes for you to use dowels when assembling all those carcasses.  And while its not exactly a domino , it will perform a very similar job with bigger dowels.

Since domino is on your list and you already have a good router , you should really check it out.  The cost of the machine and the track is pretty close to a lr32 + router + a "holey" track.  Which BTW is required..

 

[Rick Herrick]

You do need the rail with holes; how else are you exactly going to position the router? Well, I guess you can make some other way of doing that, like using a normal guide stop and then putting sticks of 32mm in front of the stop...

Yep, that was a brain fart on my end.