Shocking quality from vendors.

[waynelang2001]

Hi Guys,

I just need to come and vent my frustrations with you all. I pride myself in quality, wether its furniture, kitchens and built in cupboards. But I have been completely blown away by the lack of carring with
regards to quality here in South Africa. Just an example for today, I have had alot of work come in and could not handle the load by myself. So I gave some of melamine work out to another company who " specialize " in cutting melamine boards. Well to say that the quality of there cutting was bad would be an understatment. Every single peice they cut was chipped, and not just one or 2 chips, at least one whole length on each piece looked as if it was cut with a ripsaw. I complained and the basically said it was imposibble to cut them perfect. I disagreed because I have cut perfect melamine boards on my hammer C31.

They basically told me to get lost and used the F word abit more then Im used to. Have any of you guys around the world had the same issue when working with vendors??? I find it hard to believe that it could get any worse then this.

Rant over, thanks for reading.

[dead horse]

 

[Kev]

There are people like that all over the world.

Bottom line - don't look for help when you're busy ... the time to look for help is when your are NOT busy ... that's when you have the capacity to assign small jobs and assess quality.

(I know - little help after the event)

You have to treat this as a learning experience and move forward. Annoyed as you are now, what you will gain in experience will help you make more informed decisions tomorrow.

Bitter pill.

Kev.

 

[waynelang2001]

There are people like that all over the world.

Bottom line - don't look for help when you're busy ... the time to look for help is when your are NOT busy ... that's when you have the capacity to assign small jobs and assess quality.

(I know - little help after the event)

You have to treat this as a learning experience and move forward. Annoyed as you are now, what you will gain in experience will help you make more informed decisions tomorrow.

Bitter pill.

Kev.

Thanks Kev, I have decided that only I should be responsible for the quality of my work. This is actually one of the reasons I left my last job as a supervisor for a large cabinet making company, I was tired of having to fight with people to do what they where payed for. The only group of people I have found that care about quality is here on the FOG. Sure not every one is a master craftsman but we all strive for it. We have a group of quality people here.

 

[Alan m]

i would go to the client and tell them you have been swamped with customer looking for high quality goods adn that you are trying to outscource some of the more mundain parts so that you can concentrate on the more specialised parts. tell them you cannot fing the quality you need and that you wont accept what they are giving you. say you would rather loose the job than have your reputation damaged by low quality .
hope fully they will see that you are an honest and trustworthy profetional and worth the wait

 

[peter halle]

Wayne,

Keep your standards high.  You have chosen the route where the ultimate person you have to answer to is the person you see in the mirror.  If you can make that person happy then the odds are that your customers will be more than happy.  You are selling your reputation every day along with the products that you produce.  Others out there definitely have different standards than you and could care less about the guy you see in the mirror.

Personally I think that Alan and Kev have given great advice and as someone who lives and will die by his reputation I feel your situation.  Use the quality emphasis as a marketing tool and also as a self motivational tool.

Sorry for sounding like I think I know it all.  I certainly don't but I have seen your work and your computer work.  You are amazing and I and so many here just want the best for you.

Peter

 

[waynelang2001]

Wayne,

Keep your standards high.  You have chosen the route where the ultimate person you have to answer to is the person you see in the mirror.  If you can make that person happy then the odds are that your customers will be more than happy.  You are selling your reputation every day along with the products that you produce.  Others out there definitely have different standards than you and could care less about the guy you see in the mirror.

Personally I think that Alan and Kev have given great advice and as someone who lives and will die by his reputation I feel your situation.  Use the quality emphasis as a marketing tool and also as a self motivational tool.

Sorry for sounding like I think I know it all.  I certainly don't but I have seen your work and your computer work.  You are amazing and I and so many here just want the best for you.

Peter

Thanks Peter, Whenever i finish a job and I fell that the quality is up there I sleep like a baby because I know i wont get customers phoning me to complain. At the end of the day I know I have to look at myself and be proud of my work.

And with regards to outsourcing the simple jobs, I have done that a few times and still noone can get it right. You would think that cutting melamine with a sliding table saw that was made for it would be a peice of cake. Not so, if the person cutting has no training or doesnt care then it doesnt matter how simple the job is, it just wont work out well in the end.

Thanks guys for the words of encouragement, I feel like a new man and im ready to take tommorrow head on..........BRINT IT !!! [dead horse]

 

[jmbfestool]

Its very hard to find people and companies here in the UK who are up to the standard I want!   I have not had it as bad as you I think well maybe the quality equal or worse but never the service as well but then again what always seems to happen with me a company or person makes or does something I tell the client its crap about 80% of the time they just ask me if I can fix it or make it look alrite.

Then from then on they want me to do everything.  

I know 3  maybe the 4th who are all good enough to work on my jobs  and I know a alot of joiners and have met many ALL CRAP! OKay maybe little harsh but I wouldnt have them working for me.

This one job im on at the moment  their was 3 separate joiners doing their own thing on the job and a large joinery company they where doing all the work on this job!      I have replaced the 3 joiners AND the company  just little old me took this job of 3 joiners and a company which employes 14 joiners.      If they stayed on the job they could get it done much quicker than me!  I only work on the job 2 days a week on average I have a lot of work to do but they seem happy to wait.  

Like you I do need help like on this job my regular joiner helpers are busy and when they would give me 2 days work to would ask me for 2 days! Kinda defeats the point of them helping me lol So I took a gamble and asked DeanSocial here on Fog who I only met here on Fog! to give me a hand on the job like you said  its seems to be the only place where people seem to care and take pride in their work!  Dean Social I rate  2 out of 10!  Only JOKING!  No he's a good joiner! Just hes being a crap head and only giving me a odd day or 2!

Best thing to do is  well tha is what I do is just make the clients wait if they dont want to wait then its their loss! They will get some one else who will do a crap job and they will then wish they had you.

JMB

 

 

[waynelang2001]

Its very hard to find people and companies here in the UK who are up to the standard I want!   I have not had it as bad as you I think well maybe the quality equal or worse but never the service as well but then again what always seems to happen with me a company or person makes or does something I tell the client its crap about 80% of the time they just ask me if I can fix it or make it look alrite.

Then from then on they want me to do everything.  

I know 3  maybe the 4th who are all good enough to work on my jobs  and I know a alot of joiners and have met many ALL CRAP! OKay maybe little harsh but I wouldnt have them working for me.

This one job im on at the moment  their was 3 separate joiners doing their own thing on the job and a large joinery company they where doing all the work on this job!      I have replaced the 3 joiners AND the company  just little old me took this job of 3 joiners and a company which employes 14 joiners.      If they stayed on the job they could get it done much quicker than me!  I only work on the job 2 days a week on average I have a lot of work to do but they seem happy to wait.  

Like you I do need help like on this job my regular joiner helpers are busy and when they would give me 2 days work to would ask me for 2 days! Kinda defeats the point of them helping me lol So I took a gamble and asked DeanSocial here on Fog who I only met here on Fog! to give me a hand on the job like you said  its seems to be the only place where people seem to care and take pride in their work!  Dean Social I rate  2 out of 10!  Only JOKING!  No he's a good joiner! Just hes being a crap head and only giving me a odd day or 2!

Best thing to do is  well tha is what I do is just make the clients wait if they dont want to wait then its their loss! They will get some one else who will do a crap job and they will then wish they had you.

JMB

 

well said JMB, My last job i was late by 2 weeks because of veneer lifting from boards i bought. My client was not impressed with waiting, but when the job was done he was so happy with it he gave me more to do. I have never advertises before, all my work is through referrals. I dont think I would keep up if i hade to advertise. [scared]

 

[waynelang2001]

I now a problem with thes guys who cut the melamine for me, they are asking for there payment and I honestly will not pay for it, I have to recut everything myself. Any suggestions.

 

[Sparktrician]

I now a problem with thes guys who cut the melamine for me, they are asking for there payment and I honestly will not pay for it, I have to recut everything myself. Any suggestions.

One of the most impressive things I've ever seen was the clean cut made in melamine surfaces using the TS55 with the guide rail when I was introduced to Festool products in '03.  One does not need a sliding table saw to get a clean cut in melamine.  I think I would demonstrate that kind of a clean cut to them and tell them that their response earlier, "They basically told me to get lost and used the F word abit more then Im used to.", was unacceptable as was their workmanship.  Since you likely had to re-cut the work before installation, you essentially negated the vendor's justification for a claim.  I think I would pay them for materials only and point them to their own statements to "get lost" as to payment for unacceptable workmanship.  Just be sure to fully document the shabby workmanship with high-quality photos, just in case you need to defend your actions.  Look at this as a lesson on what not to do in the future and stick to your own level of acceptable quality so you sleep better at night. 

[smile]

 

[Peter James]

Send them an offsetting invoice for your labor involved as well.

 

[nydesign]

Are they are large company? Maybe the person doing the billing does not know the job was botched.

I would let them know (again) the quality was not acceptable, tell them you had to buy materials twice and cut the job yourself, send them pics if needed.

 

[waynelang2001]

I have had to just bite the bullet and pay them now. They are not the largest company around but there shop is literally 10 meters away from the biggest board supplier in the city. The man that basically gave me the finger is the boss, Keith. I sent them an email to state my claim for not paying for the work done, I was then phoned by Keith today and threatened with physical violence and he said if I didnt pay he would find me. Seeing as how I gave them a business card that would be easy for them. I work from home and love my family, if I lived alone I would tell him to come try but that is not an option for me, not with my family involved.

I am now physically sick from this whole event and I fell like digging a hole and barring myself.

There are some very sick people in this world.....................

I feel like im back in school getting bullied again, Im my own man now but still people just think they can do what they like and screw everyone else.

 

[Kev]

Reacting to a situation with violence and anger is a sign of the smallest mind possible (while still having enough grey matter to keep a heart beating).

You're a better person and you'll continue to notice there's lots of arrogant pigs on the planet.

Also remember, you're not giving in - you are making a choice. Being able to think rationally and decide on the best action is the difference between an intelligent person and the example of sub human you've just been dealing with.

Sure it cost you some money - but in terms of life lessons, it cheap.

Kev.

 

[waynelang2001]

Reacting to a situation with violence and anger is a sign of the smallest mind possible (while still having enough grey matter to keep a heart beating).

You're a better person and you'll continue to notice there's lots of arrogant pigs on the planet.

Also remember, you're not giving in - you are making a choice. Being able to think rationally and decide on the best action is the difference between an intelligent person and the example of sub human you've just been dealing with.

Sure it cost you some money - but in terms of life lessons, it cheap.

Kev.

Thanks alot Kev that really helps, and I mean that honestly. Im one of the most gentle people you will meet but right now I am filled with such anger and hatred I honestly dont know what to do with myself. I think a trip to my pastor is in order.

And a thank you goes out to all my fellow FOGers who have given me so much good advise, you guys are awesome.

 

[tiralie]

I'd be pissed too.
Forget about it, or rather remember to never use them again.
Not worth your time.
Tim

 

[nydesign]

That situation sucks. What a piece of cr@p person to have to deal with.
I don't understand how someone like that can stay in business let alone open one.

Being mad is completely understandable, but like others said its not worth letting it eat you up.

 

[waynelang2001]

That situation sucks. What a piece of cr@p person to have to deal with.
I don't understand how someone like that can stay in business let alone open one.

Being mad is completely understandable, but like others said its not worth letting it eat you up.

I know how they stay in business now I figured it out. They are nextdoor to the biggest board supplier in the city, so they dont sell boards themselves. They tell you to buy boards next door and bring it to them for cutting, so it wont matter how rubbish of a job they do you only have two options. Either pay up and take the boards as they are, or dont pay and they keep the boards that you bought from nextdoor. Its a win win for them. Im pretty sure they dont survive on repeat business. There are dozens of new people buying boards nextdoor and they think it is so great that they can have there boards cut right next to the place they bought it from.

I am 100% sure that if these guys where not next to the board supplier they would have been out of business years ago.

 

[colyn]

Tell them to Voetsek.. [laughing]