Shop Cabinets

[electricald]

Hey Folks,
For the last two years I have been building a workshop for myself. Because of my work nature (I work four weeks on and four weeks off, on an oil rig) it has taken time. And I promised myself I would not move a tool in there until the thing was completed. It has taken some time to do and especially when you have to do it yourself. I have everything done except to put a finish (I haven't decided that yet) on the concrete floor.

The first thing I would like to do is to build a bench against the wall with fully extendable drawers. I have allowed 10' for it and plan on using 3/4" birch plywood for everything. The other thing that I want to incorporate into the bench is my Kapex mitre saw. You guys have seen it many times where the mitre saw is set into the bench so that the table of the mitre saw is level with the bench.

The only problem I have is I am brand new to woodworking and have never built cabinets, let alone anything with a drawer in it. I have no clue about building them. So that creates a big hurdle for me. I know I can do this, but I need some direction. One thing I have done is collect Festool gear in the process and I want to list them as it might affect the response I get.

I have the: TS55 plunge saw, 2 X 55" rails, PS 300 jig saw, Kapex scms, RO 90 DX & ETS 150/3 sanders, OF 1400 router, DF 500 domino, plus the CT26 dust extractor with the complete boom arm assembly as well as many accessories with the router, the domino systainer assortment and clamps. I have ordered the MFT/3 and it should be here tomorrow. Now, I have to be honest here, I have never used a router, I have never used the Domino. But I have been working in industry for the past 25 years and have used much machinery, so I am not afraid of this stuff. Plus, for what it is worth, I have read much and surfed much on the woodworking craft as to get some insight or theory into my head. I know theory and practical can be two different things.

Can you guys direct me to a starting point. I know I have to get a plan in place. So the first thing is knowing what to do. I have seen many people recommend, "Building Traditional Kitchen Cabinets" by Jim Tolpin. What do you think or can you recommend something else.
Should I have a section of the bench with cabinet doors instead of all drawers? Any comments on that.
I have just down loaded Google sketchup and it looks like maybe a good layman's auto cad, maybe?
I have seen there are face frame cabinets and the frameless or Euro style. Looking at that I am leaning toward the face frame style. WHat do you think.
And I am going to mention Domino vs pocket hole or other type of joinery? And I know you who have the Domino are more than likely Domino-pro. But I am wondering should I use it at my first substantial project?

But before I do anything, as soon as I get the MFT3 I am going to play with the router and the Domino and get lots of practice on them. I welcome all comments and I need help,Thanks.
Regards,
Dan

 

[erock]

I would recommend that you look at the Parallel guides for cutting up all the sheet goods.  This will help you get

repeated cuts.  I have two 55" rails that I join to rip a sheet of ply and I'm seriously considering the FS3000.

The two 55" rails at times can flex at the connection and cause them to bow.  Especially after moving them

around a couple times.  So keep an eye out for that and try to keep them straight.

The bad thing about having a clean slate to work with is that your head goes in a million directions about what you

want to incorporate and need in a shop.  I know this is the case for me ( I'm rearranging my shop).  

Personally, I like drawers for base cabinets, but at times a door will be better. I like frameless cabinets over

face framed,  it reduces the cost of the cabinet which means more money for tools.  Cabinets are easy to build.

If you can put together a box, you can build a cabinet.  I like using 6mm domino's with pocket screws for 19mm

(3/4") plywood.   Try using 5mm (1/4") ply for the backs of the cabinets,  it will lighten the weight, plus reduce

the cost of the cabinet by not needing so much 3/4" ply.  

And, if you plan on having a lot of doors and adjustable shelving, maybe check out the LR32 system.

There are a lot of methods to go about building a cabinet.  I like to use a 5mm dado for the back panel.

I use adjustable legs for leveling the cabinet.  Plus the legs keep the wood from making contact with the concrete

floor. And, pocket holes and domino's make for a strong box.  It will be nice to see how you progress with this

project. Please try to post pictures as you progress.  

Eric

 

[Kev]

Hi Dan,

You recognise the need for a plan - that's a good place to be, buying material and "just building" could be a downer!

Your range of Festool tools is good for the bench build, but do you have the tools you need to measure, square and clamp?

Cabinet carcass building methods should be your personal preference, but I doubt you'll get any of the Domino fraternity here saying much against pocket screws - they're a great way to fasten a Domino joint and save time and effort clamping.

My suggestion would be to build a small cabinet as an experiment - something that has a carcass, a cupboard at the bottom and a drawer at the top. If you want the experiment to have a future you could size it to be a module that could slide into your bench design (maybe ultimately making a couple of them).

On routing - I'd actually start playing with some MDF and work up through ply and to grained timber.

As a general rule and particularly as you're starting out, experiment with small pieces and perform test cuts. Ensure everything is securely clamped, not taking any short cuts. Check you depth of cut over and over and over - you want be happy if you saw through your new MFT.

In regards to the bench design itself, how will you use it? It may be better as a timber frame structure. You could do something very nice and again modular by having a centre section of the bench for the KAPEX that you could remove and replace with a section that gives you one long assembly/work bench.

On the KAPEX still - you may want an open area in the centre beneath the KAPEX that would accept you CT26 (short hose an power to the CT, just need power to the CT).

Lastly in my "stream of consciousness" response - don't forget cleanup, it can be frustrating if you don't factor it tidying up afterwards (things like having a gap under a bench high enough to collect debris, but not high enough to get a vacuum nozzle in.

Hope this helps - you'll get heaps more useful info when the northern hemisphere shift takes over  [wink]

Kev.

 

[electricald]

Hello Eric,
Thanks for the reply. I just finished reading all your blog about your house. I am interested to see all of it, Can you contact me as as it unfolds, if you haven't already posted it? The photo of you kissing the TS55 made me laugh and I can relate to the need or want of this stuff. The more I use it the more I love it.

The parallel guides I have not looked at yet. I just used the 2-55" rails together to rip the clear pine for the window's furring and checked every cut and they were all as straight as a whip. And I lifted and moved the 2 rails together and not once did I find them to be out of kilter. But the single rail would certainly eliminate any "could-be" errors.

And your comment about the endless thoughts of what I can do with an empty shop, well let's just say the wheels never stop turning and I am constantly web browsing the issue. The only issue I was totally confident with was the electrical side as I have been in the field for the past 25 years, so I think I did a pretty decent job of that.

The cabinets for the time being is just the 10' section that will sit on the floor. I might get into a cabinet on the wall but that will be later as I have some pretty big windows that take up the wall space. So I will have to wait and see on that. I am planning on drawers for the whole bottom section as they are easier to access.

I have seen a few instances where people have used adjustable legs for their cabinets and I have tossed that idea in my head. How did you find it?

Thanks for the response and again I am looking forward to seeing the rest of your story.
Regards,
Dan

 

[electricald]

Hello Kev,

Well the first thing I need to mention here is that I am a methodical and neat and tidy type of person. I actually contracted the flu over the Christmas season and then got Bronchitis on top of that. And at that point I bought the boom arm assembly as well as the Oneida ultimate dust deputy that sits on top of my CT 26 and it works well.

The other thing I need to add here as well and I didn't mention it in my post was I also have the Clearvue CV1800 cyclone for my shops dust collection system. It was the first thing I bought before I bought anything Festool. The reason I did that was because I have read much on it and the effects of dust and the reviews posted by the users of this. And it is not a tool so the tendency is not to give it as much attention as say purchasing a Domino. Thus, the plan is to keep the CT26 around the shop as needed and pipe the Kapex to the Clearvue system.

I am also anxious to get at these cabinets so the fun will be in the design as well as the construction. But your idea of staring with just a door and drawer set is kinda nice as the rest then with be just a copy of that, with only the dimensions changing. Good Idea!

I just bought 6-1/4" Freud router bits that I got for a great deal as a local supplier was clearing them out. So I  got some pine left over, and some 1/2" plywood and some MDF to practice on but am waiting on the MFT table to arrive tomorrow and as well as I mentioned to get to know the Domino as well. So I am looking forward to using those bits.

As far as Festool clamps go, I have 2 of each of the ratchet and rapid type and coming with the MFT3 are 2 of the clamping elements and 2 of the 300mm screw clamps.

As far as the bench goes it will be just a general purpose bench, but want also to be able to crosscut boards with it on the kapex. So I need to have something there that I can remove when not using it. Something like the Kreg precision trak and stop system.

I have no big clamps yet but will be ordering that in the days to come. I do have good squares and other good gear for measuring and marking that I have been buying over the years. Thanks Kev for taking the time to respond and for your points. I appreciate them.

Regards,
Dan

 

[mhch]

One topic to seriously consider is ... how you will store wood, wood to cut, wood crap, etc ... There is always too much of them.

Better give that a thought abd ask for advice when you plan your shop and before you commit to a specific plan ...

 

[erock]

Hello Eric,

I have seen a few instances where people have used adjustable legs for their cabinets and I have tossed that idea in my head. How did you find it?

Thanks for the response and again I am looking forward to seeing the rest of your story.
Regards,
Dan

Dan,  I bought some adjustable cabinet legs from IKEA.  A pack of 4 was cheaper then any other place I have shopped.
I believe that they are rated for 750 LBs, but don't quote me on that.  Plus, they come with a clip to attach a toe kick if
you wanted to. 

Eric

 

[Tinker]

:-[>>> I have everything done except to put a finish (I haven't decided that yet) on the concrete floor.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Dan,  I bought some adjustable cabinet legs from IKEA.  A pack of 4 was cheaper then any other place I have shopped.
I believe that they are rated for 750 LBs, but don't quote me on that.  Plus, they come with a clip to attach a toe kick if
you wanted to. 

Eric

Eric, you got a link to these legs?

 

[Brice Burrell]

Dan, since you're starting from zero experience you should get a book, or a half dozen of them, on the subject.  Also, Youtube is your friend.  Watch as much as you can about shop cabinets.  Here a whole series that shows the a cabinet from start to finish.  Very detailed, 10 or so videos long.  Here's the first two videos.  Go to the Youtube page for the second video and you'll find a play list for the rest of the videos. 

 

[erock]

Brice,
 

  Ikea AKURUM Legs     4 pack for $6 !   [big grin]

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30076319/

Eric

Edit:  they support 125Kg.  Which is about 275LBs.    So four legs will support  1100 LBs.

 

[Rocky]

Thanks Eric.  Just ordered 5 packs.

Mike

 

[electricald]

Hey Tinker,
As I mentioned in my post, nothing is going in the shop until everything is done. The only thing left to do is the floor and because I live in Canada and the temperature here in my province at present is about -3 to 5 degrees C (roughly hovering around the freezing still) I cannot do anything with the floor until the temperature rises considerably. The floor is staying concrete and the plan is to use a proper epoxy coating on it. And I have done much reading and research on it.
Thanks for the response.

Dan

:-[>>> I have everything done except to put a finish (I haven't decided that yet) on the concrete floor.

 

[electricald]

Eric,

Thanks for the link on the legs. I am certainly going to check this out.
Dan

 

[electricald]

Hey Brice,
Thanks alot for the link. I have one book by Tom CLark on shop cabinets and it makes for an interesting read. I plan on getting Jim Tolpin's book as previously mentioned. I am constantly surfiing for info on cabinet builds as well as carcass construction. By the way nice job on the Systainers with Sketchup. I am planning on going to a bookstore and looking at the dummies book for it this morning.
Dan

 

[Tinker]

Hey Tinker,
As I mentioned in my post, nothing is going in the shop until everything is done. The only thing left to do is the floor and because I live in Canada and the temperature here in my province at present is about -3 to 5 degrees C (roughly hovering around the freezing still) I cannot do anything with the floor until the temperature rises considerably. The floor is staying concrete and the plan is to use a proper epoxy coating on it. And I have done much reading and research on it.
Thanks for the response.

Dan

:-[>>> I have everything done except to put a finish (I haven't decided that yet) on the concrete floor.

 

[Tinker]

I did have one other experience with epoxy that is more in line (on topic) many years later.
I was asked by the local Dairy to look at a floor in there plant.  The concrete floor was spalting over the entire area, some patches spalting to more than an inch deep.  The milk spillage, foot traffic, moving milk cans and caustic cleaners were all taking their toll.  I told the owners there was no way i could resurface the floor with any cement patch materials i knew about.  I called my friends who had given me the epoxy to cover my boat many years before and asked about epoxy as a possible covering.  He told me what to get, how to mix and apply.  He had a substance to neutralize the effects of cleaning and flushing the floor surface so the epoxy could be applied within an hour or so of the flushing activity.  The floor could still be damp as we applied the epoxy.  I could not start work on the floor untl the dairy people had finished their operation.  They would do the cleaning and would be finished by around 10 am.  I would then have until around 6 am the following morning to get my work completed and hope the finish would be hard enough to work on with the dairy operation.  nobody knew for sure if the surface would actually be hard enough, or even if it would really adhere properly.  The owners were willing to give it a try.  The supplier guaranteed it would work.  The "old friend" told me he was confident the surface would hold up.  Me, i seemed to be the only one who was worried about the results.  I started in first by troweling material in under all of the machinery and tanks, having to crawl under with my face practically touching as i troweled and flattened epoxy.  I had one man mixing and another sliding epoxy to within reach of my stretching arms. 

I had been warned not to use my best trowels, as it might be difficult to keep them clean.  I had bought myself several cheapy trowels.  I am not sure how I was keeping them clean. This was at least 50 years ago, so some of the details are a wee bit hazy.  you know, when you get to be 39, things like details that happened 50 years ago can get just a little bit non-specific.  Any how, by the time I got out from under all of those tanks and machinery, i was somewhat drunk from breathing the fumes from the epoxy.  By the time i got to working on the open floor areas, i was able to putone of my helpers onto the troweling part of the operation with me.  I think by the time we finished with the application, it was quite late at nite and we were all staggering around as if we were quite drunk. 

Even tho I was not too happy about the appearance, the floor was smoother than before we started.  A big difference was that before, there were big hollows all over; now there were bumps from rough troweling all over, especially under the equipment and tanks.  Those bumps, at least, were not as high above their surroundings as the hollows had been deep.

Dan, I think you will be using a paint on type of epoxy and you will probably have plenty of stand up space to work in.  I have never used epoxy again.  I am sure the improvements have been terrific, but I am sure that good ventilation will be a requisite. 

Oh, BTW, I don't know how long my finish would have lasted.  The dairy went out of business two years later and the building was torn down and a nursery moved onto the property.  All principals were still friendly to me for many more years, so i guess I did not do too terrible a job.  : However, I decided I never wanted to work with epoxy floors again.  If I was going to "tie one on", it was a lot more fun to guzzle a few beers.  The hangover never lasted as long from beer as with that epoxy. [wink]
Tinker

 

[Jeff Zanin]

I've started watching the PCC videos that Brice linked.  They are good quality audio and video and the instructor does a good job explaining what he is doing.

He shows some techniques I haven't seen (tapping the edge banding with a block, guillotining and trimming with a plane blade) and also what seems to me like an unusual method for machining and joining the top and bottom to the sides.  He cuts a stopped rabbet in the side short of the face, then joints a notch in the front part of the top and bottom to clear the un-rabbeted portion of the sides.

It works well but this method seems to use an odd combination of tools and techniques.

There are many different ways to do this, so I am wondering how other members are joining their sides when building this type of cabinet.  In particular when working with melamine type material would a Domino type of joint (perhaps with pocket screws to hold it in lieu of clamps) be a reasonable alternative to the stopped rabbet / notched edge technique for those of use who are not equipped with a jointer?

Jeff

 

[Kevin Johnson]

I once built a bar and the storage below was all melamine. I used confirmat screws and it worked very well. I got the screws from Mcfeeleys

 

[Brice Burrell]

I've started watching the PCC videos that Brice linked.  They are good quality audio and video and the instructor does a good job explaining what he is doing.

He shows some techniques I haven't seen (tapping the edge banding with a block, guillotining and trimming with a plane blade) and also what seems to me like an unusual method for machining and joining the top and bottom to the sides.  He cuts a stopped rabbet in the side short of the face, then joints a notch in the front part of the top and bottom to clear the un-rabbeted portion of the sides.

It works well but this method seems to use an odd combination of tools and techniques.

There are many different ways to do this, so I am wondering how other members are joining their sides when building this type of cabinet.  In particular when working with melamine type material would a Domino type of joint (perhaps with pocket screws to hold it in lieu of clamps) be a reasonable alternative to the stopped rabbet / notched edge technique for those of use who are not equipped with a jointer?

Jeff

Jeff, I completely agree with your observations.  These videos are good quality, and show the whole process.  I like that series for someone new to the process as the case for the op.  However, I wouldn't used the methods in the videos. 

I like butt joints.  As Kevin suggested confirmat screws are very good for melamine but any screws will work if properly pre-drilled.  The Domino and pocket screws is also an option.