Should I upgrade or eliminate my tablesaw?

[alanz]

What have you folk done?

I've been enjoying using the TS55 with an MTF/3 table.

However, there are many operations that tend to lend themselves to a table saw.

I'm not happy with my current table saw (a portable Ryobi BTS21) and I am at a crossroad.  Do I invest in a much better table saw, or learn to do similar operations with the TS55/MFT combinations.

Recently I've been playing with making some small boxes, and working with small pieces is not the Festool strongpoint, though I've seen some examples that seem to be ok. 

I know some of you have given up your tablesaws entirely, and I'm wondering what your experience with this transition has been.  What kinds of adaptations and jigs have you made to make tasks previously done on the table saw easier/safer?

It would be great if I can eliminate a tablesaw, both from a footprint standpoint (I have a very small shop) and from the safety point of view.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Warrior]

Upgrade the tablesaw IMO. The TS55 and rail will do most of what you used to do on the tablesaw. But getting consistant rips narrower than the guiderail is inefficient. It can be done, but why sacrifice your time like that? I do not bring my jobsite tablesaw to the job anymore because the increased space in my truck and saved time from not setting up the saw on site then cleaning up all of its mess is well worth a little effort on the guide rail for narrow rips on site.

In the shop is a different story. The quality of cut and ease of use of a cabinet saw is tough to beat. I did go from a 52" fence to a 30" fence and now rarely rip wider than 8" on the tablesaw. Everthing else gets cut with my TS75.

The table saw is a narly beast. If you can afford it get the SawStop or Powermatic.

 

[Warrior]

Another thing you could do to save the space is to switch to a bandsaw. I have heard that alot of woodworkers start with the bandsaw as the primary machine vs the tablesaw. I have never used a bandsaw so I do not know for sure but am intrigued by the idea.

 

[alanz]

Consistant rips narrower than the guiderail is the first thing that comes to my mind too.

I was wondering if anyone uses a setup like this:

• An Incra fence system to the left of the guiderail that pushes...
• a thin spacer block that acts as a fence for the wood under the guiderail.

The Incra can be set up parallel to the guiderail and can be moved in predictable increments.

I'd also be able to use the Incra fence on my router table, so it could be a multi use device.

Just thinking out loud....

 

[alanz]

I actually have a small bandsaw (new 10" Craftsman) with some great blades from Iturra design.  Yes, it does handle small pieces well, and I've been using it quite a bit lately.

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Although I have had my MFT3 / TS55 for about a month there is NO way I am giving up my Unisaw.  I have been using it for over 20 years and it is simply too useful to give up.  That said I do have another Unisaw that I was planning to setup as a dedicated dado, groove and rabbit cutting machine that I have now pretty much decided to sell.  I am also thinking of going from the 50" Unifence to a 30" Unifence as I just will not be crosscutting really long pieces with the Unisaw. Instead this will be done with the Festool setup.

So, if you have room for a good quality table saw I still think they are worth having in a stationary dedicated workshop.

Best,
Todd

 

[johnsonri]

This is one of those perennial questions. Answers to that are far and wide with many variables.

From a personal standpoint, I believe that 99.9% of tablesaw operations can be completed with a Festool system. I have a Festool system with no tablesaw. I haven't come across anything yet that I am not able to do efficiently with my Festool that I would otherwise do on a tablesaw.

Notice though, that I refer to a Festool "system". After several years of having Festool tools, they have collectively grown into a system capable of completing almost any woodshop tasks.

A plunge saw and mft combo with no other accessories or jigs would likely quickly present limitations...just the same as a tablesaw with no fence, slide table, etc. would be limited.

But, as you get into fences, clamps, jigs, and other complimentary items, the Festool system becomes very robust, repeatable, precise, taking up a small footprint all the while giving excellent dust management. 

Largely, it will come down to a matter of preference. Some people would never give up their TS regardless of anything.

It like wearing eye-glasses, then getting contact lenses. 
Tablesaw = glasses
Festool = contact lenses
Some people keep the glasses and use both, some people toss the glasses ang go just with contacts.

 

[alanz]

I like tools (toys), and your comment is significant  "if you have the room".

It would require quite a bit of juggling and space engineering to make room for a 'proper' table saw (as opposed to the portable one I have now), and space is at a premium.    These kinds of constraints might have tipped others over to removing the table saw and replacing with the Festool lineup.  Also, if I upgrade the saw, I'd want one with an integral riving knife and all of the other modern goodies aimed at a safer tool.

 

[nickao]

Upgrade your table saw if you do not like it.

I still see no way to do certain operations without taking 4 times longer without the table saw. I use the table saw and step over to my TS75 all the time.

I must have my table saw. A TS 55 or 75 is a nice complement, but no replacement for a table saw.

 

[Frank Pellow]

Upgrade.

I have two shops 1,000 kilometres apart.  At one I have a tablesaw (a General 650) and at the other I do not.  Thanks mostly to my portable Festool tools, there is nothing that I can not do at the shop without a table saw -but it does take me a lot longer for some tasks.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Consistant rips narrower than the guiderail is the first thing that comes to my mind too.

I was wondering if anyone uses a setup like this:

• An Incra fence system to the left of the guiderail that pushes...
• a thin spacer block that acts as a fence for the wood under the guiderail.

The Incra can be set up parallel to the guiderail and can be moved in predictable increments.

I'd also be able to use the Incra fence on my router table, so it could be a multi use device.

Just thinking out loud....

I have both a table saw and Festool MFT with TS 55, and perhaps a little more space than you do.  Having both saves me a lot of time having to change my MFT setup to cut some additional strips, e.g. when I have switched to working with the Domino machine or some other operation and realize I need a few narrow strips, or if I mess up a piece.  To help conserve space, I mounted a router is in an extension table on the table saw.  

The Incra (or JoinTech) indexing machines could be used as you propose, but I prefer to leave mine on my table saw/router table.  I believe other members of FOG have used an MFS system much as you have described.  Jerry Works MFS manual describes such usage.  However, an MFS is not required, any single graduated extrusion acting as a fence together with a square piece of plywood or MDF of the needed thickness under the Festool Guide Rail could be used, such as extrusions from Woodpeckers, Kreg and others together with a steel tape which can also be made fixed or adjustable.  To me, this MFT based approach is less efficient than a table saw because of the need to place a piece under the Guide Rail of the same thickness as the stock you want to rip into narrow strips.   And, if the strips you need are longer than your MFT Guide Rail cross cut setup, you have to make a different setup, which takes more time.   In contrast, with your table saw, all you have to do is set the position of your fence, no matter what the thickness of length of the strips you want to make.  And, maybe, you have to move your saw to provide enough space in front and behind to accommodate the length of the board you are ripping.  I have a mobile base on my table saw to address that problem and to facilitate storage when I want to put my car in the garage.

I bought my table saw after buying a TS 55 and MFT and several accessories.

Dave R.

 

[Jesus Aleman]

This may not answer the original question, but I was intrigued by the comment about the INCRA jig.  I'm actually working on a setup that will let me use the INCRA positioner/fence in the MFT/3 as a router fence and for the TS (rips and cross cuts). My shop space is limited and the 17" positioner requires a router table the size of the MFT.  To minimize space and maintain flexibility of using the fence, I'm building a MFT table extension where I can put the router on the left side of the table [22"x24"] (I believe festool has a similar product NAINA).  The idea is to mount the positioner on a sub-base that has been pre-drilled to take bench dogs or dowels that fit into the MFT holes.  This way I can lift the fence and drop in place for router, rip or crosscut.  this setup would be self squaring due to the use of the MFT holes (clamps would be required obviously).  When I don't need the fence or router extension simply un-clamp lift and store on the wall.  I only have sketches right now and lots of ideas.  I'll start a thread when I have something to show.

JGA.

 

[alanz]

Jesus,

I've arranged my CMT router table so that it's to the left of and at the same height as the MFT/3.  You and I are thinking along the same lines with a base that plugs into the MFT/3's holes.  I was thinking that pointing the fence to the left would let me use it on the router table, and turning it around to the right would point it towards the Festool guide rail.

So, this thread is already on the right two tracks

• Reasons to upgrade or eliminate the table saw
• Using the MFT/TS55 to replace table saw functionality

Keep the thoughts coming, I appreciate the discussion and brainstorming.

 

[johnsonri]

nickao,

You gave me a laugh. I saw your post, then I saw your signature  

I still see no way to do certain operations without taking 4 times longer without the table saw.

The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it. (or designing / contemplating it)

Surely, I am joking here....you do outstanding work and I enjoy your posts.

Rey

 

[alanz]

Rey,

I agree that learning to do things on the MFT requires different accessories than might be obvious.

What are the tools, clamps, jigs etc. that you've found most useful, and how do you use them to do tasks that you would otherwise do on a table saw?

 

[johnsonri]

Rey,
What are the tools, clamps, jigs etc. that you've found most useful, and how do you use them to do tasks that you would otherwise do on a table saw?

Here is a link in this forum to details some of my personal use...dadoes, grooves, etc.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=4747.0

The Incra fences and accessories are great additions. Kreg parts go well. The Festool MFS is a HUGE plus as a companion. For me other things like 8mm bolts are used pretty extensively. But I have the older 1080 and 800 MFTs. 8mm bolts let me add any number of jigs attachments to my MFTs.

I haven't really played with the MFT3s yet. My current setup works so well, I am hesitant to make the jump to the MFT3. After 5 or so years growing my Festool system, my feeling is that I can do probably 99% of what a tablesaw can do...and in most cases, as fast or faster.

Though, I do have other tools...bandsaw, router table, planer, etc. that compliment the Festool system.

 

[nickao]

nickao,

You gave me a laugh. I saw your post, then I saw your signature  

I still see no way to do certain operations without taking 4 times longer without the table saw.

The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it. (or designing / contemplating it)

Surely, I am joking here....you do outstanding work and I enjoy your posts.

Rey

Well I see know way to do certain things, but I would not stop anyone from trying to do something or talk them out of it, even it it takes a lot longer..   

 

[johnsonri]

Well I see know way to do certain things, but I would not stop anyone from trying to do something or talk them out of it, even it it takes a lot longer..   

nickao...yeah, I know you weren't....it just struck me as being funny....I have an odd sense of humor sometimes. Though, what are a few of the things that you have in mind being out of scope for the Festools?

alanz, one think that dramatically helped me with speed a few years ago was keeping track of my configurations on the MFT. It was such that I could complete an operation in say, August....and in September when I needed to do exactly the same thing, I'd be starting from scratch (what goes where, where the fence is located, if clamps are used, etc).

Before I had many things committed to memory, I would snap a quick picture of a given configuration if it worked out well for me. For example, cutting a quick cove, would have a corresponding picture saved to remind me that stops were used, how it was measured, etc.

 

[nickao]

Oh yeah its funny  Kidding! 

 

[johnsonri]

Oh yeah its funny  Kidding!   

Tablesaw or not, the awe-inspring items on your website speak for themselves...so I'll keep my funnybone in check.