Sliding Table Saw Advice

[Tom the Remodeler]

Following up on Cider's comment about no router table in the Hammer/Felder machines, I'll include the comment that there is an option for an integrated shaper, with the option of including a router spindle. I ordered my KF700 with a 1-1/4" shaper spindle, as well as a router spindle with 1/2" and 1/4" collets. The Hammer B3 machines have an integrated shaper with multiple, swappable spindle options.

The benefit of the KF500/KF700 and B3 machines is that the shaper/router also uses the sliding table, making for easier work on end grain joinery.....

 

[cider]

I never bothered with the router spindle since it’s limited to 10k rpm, but the shaper is a joy to use

 

[RussellS]

• I rarely use the rip fence, and I've only actually ripped with it a couple times.

This seems odd to me.  How would having a slider reduce, eliminate the need to rip wood?  For instance, making a kitchen cupboards with rail and stile cabinets and raised panel doors.  You need a hundred feet or more of 2 inch wide strips for the rails, stiles, doors, etc.  So you use the slider to straight line rip one edge of every piece or hardwood you are using.  Get the nice straight line so you can run it against the rip fence to make many strips that are 2 inch wide.  A 10 inch wide board would be run against the rip fence about 4 times.  And you would end up with 32 feet of 2 inch wide strips if the board is 8 feet long.  Do that 3-4 times with boards to get to the 100+ feet of 2 inch strips you need for the kitchen.  Lot of ripping it seems to me.  Regardless whether you have the slider or not.

 

[cider]

It’s my bad communication skills. I still rip, but on the slider instead of the rip fence.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

• I rarely use the rip fence, and I've only actually ripped with it a couple times.

This seems odd to me.  How would having a slider reduce, eliminate the need to rip wood?  For instance, making a kitchen cupboards with rail and stile cabinets and raised panel doors.  You need a hundred feet or more of 2 inch wide strips for the rails, stiles, doors, etc.  So you use the slider to straight line rip one edge of every piece or hardwood you are using.  Get the nice straight line so you can run it against the rip fence to make many strips that are 2 inch wide.  A 10 inch wide board would be run against the rip fence about 4 times.  And you would end up with 32 feet of 2 inch wide strips if the board is 8 feet long.  Do that 3-4 times with boards to get to the 100+ feet of 2 inch strips you need for the kitchen.  Lot of ripping it seems to me.  Regardless whether you have the slider or not.

Many sliders have an auxiliary parallel attachment for the slider so you can make parallel rips on the slider, instead of using the rip fence. So, the “keeper” is ripped on the slider, and the excess is on the far side. So, in terms of safety, the user is standing perpendicular to the blade (reduced risk of kickback injury), and if you’re using clamps you never have to get your fingers anywhere near the blade.

See example at 3:00
=40s

With shorter sliders, long boards can still be straight line ripped using a sled that rides in the slider t-slot.

Again, some guys with sliders still use the fence for certain ripping operations, others only use the rip fence as a bump stop for repeat cross cuts.

 

[Picktool]

From a fellow hobbyist:

I've never owned a Sawstop, but I think they make a beautiful saw.  I had one in my online cart a couple times, but somehow ended up with a Hammer B3.  Here are some random thoughts:

• I do miss a zero-clearance insert at times, but the scoring blade works as advertised.

Ramon Valdez has a ZCI for Hammer K3 so not sure if it fits the B3 (same model no?)

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I never bothered with the router spindle since it’s limited to 10k rpm, but the shaper is a joy to use

Ah yes, that makes sense on the Hammer since the swap is only at the top.


On my KF700 the entire spindle is swapped, so the router spindle get 15,000 rpm. I received my first batch of shaper tooling from Rangate a few weeks ago, looking forward to putting it to work this Winter.....

 

[cider]

Ramon Valdez has a ZCI for Hammer K3 so not sure if it fits the B3 (same model no?)

Hey, cool link--thanks!  I have one of these for the dado blade, but it's expensive, and I thought it might be too floppy if I cut a slot for the splitter.

On my KF700 the entire spindle is swapped, so the router spindle get 15,000 rpm. I received my first batch of shaper tooling from Rangate a few weeks ago, looking forward to putting it to work this Winter.....

Lucky!  Of course that spindle costs nearly as much as an OF2200  :-X

I don't have much shaper tooling yet, but I just used a Rangate shear rabbet two nights ago with the spindle tilted (love that feature) and it was so smooth I did a double-take to make sure it was actually cutting.

 

[MikeGE]

Many sliders have an auxiliary parallel attachment for the slider so you can make parallel rips on the slider, instead of using the rip fence. So, the “keeper” is ripped on the slider, and the excess is on the far side. So, in terms of safety, the user is standing perpendicular to the blade (reduced risk of kickback injury), and if you’re using clamps you never have to get your fingers anywhere near the blade.

Here are a couple of images for my work in progress.  This is the Minimax SC2 Classic with an Incra LS25 positioner attached to one of the auxiliary tables.  I can set the distance on the Incra up to 570mm from the left side of the blade.  Any more than that, and I'll use only the crosscut fence.  The auxiliary table attaches to the sliding sled at the side and can slide along the length of the sled.

This is what ripping a narrow board would like like using the LS25 as a second reference point.  This is only a simulation, and I attached a spare Woodpeckers T-track to the positioner for display only.  The final version will have a different piece of extruded aluminum, a sacrificial board, and a stop block.

 

[Svar]

Ramon Valdez has a ZCI for Hammer K3 so not sure if it fits the B3 (same model no?)

Hey, cool link--thanks!  I have one of these for the dado blade, but it's expensive, and I thought it might be too floppy if I cut a slot for the splitter.

Marius Hornberger (Youtube) made one too. Would be nice to add something to the sliding table, just like one on track saw rail.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Nice work MikeGE!

The parallel rip assembly is available for a variety of machines from Lamb Toolworks. The round end allows for repeat tapered rips.
https://lambtoolworks.com/parallel-fences

 

[MikeGE]

Hi Tom, I'm familiar with the Lamb Toolworks products, and they are impressive.  However, the Incra LS25 and auxiliary table combined was about half the cost of the analog positioner from Lamb Toolworks.

 

[derekcohen]

Ramon Valdez has a ZCI for Hammer K3 so not sure if it fits the B3 (same model no?)

Hey, cool link--thanks!  I have one of these for the dado blade, but it's expensive, and I thought it might be too floppy if I cut a slot for the splitter.

Marius Hornberger (Youtube) made one too. Would be nice to add something to the sliding table, just like one on track saw rail.

I converted a standard dado insert by inlaying an aluminium strip along the inside.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[cider]

Slick!  IIRC, you have a custom router table solution too?

 

[derekcohen]

Slick!  IIRC, you have a custom router table solution too?

I am not sure if you are referring to my K3, but I actually am in the process of rebuilding the router table in its outfeed ...

This is how the outfeed looked in original shape ...

This is how the re-built router table ...

This has a router lift and above table bit changing.

I am in the process of building a new fence.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Climber39]

Wow,  that's a lot of info to digest.  You guys here on FOG never disappoint.  The amount of knowledge and experience here is simply staggering.  I want to thank everyone that took the time to weigh in on my questions. It would seem that a  majority think going to a lower end saw,  just to get a sliding table,  would not be a wise move. After reading some of your responses,  I think in agree. In light of that,  I'm leaning towards giving the Sawstop sliding table a try... And of course I'll continue to save up (or at least attempt to) until i can afford a good slider.  I'm going to check around on FOG to see if anyone has done a comparison of the 2 different sliding tables that Sawstop offers.  Thanks again for all the info.  I really appreciate everyone's time.

 

[RussellS]

Wow,  that's a lot of info to digest.  You guys here on FOG never disappoint.  The amount of knowledge and experience here is simply staggering.  I want to thank everyone that took the time to weigh in on my questions. It would seem that a  majority think going to a lower end saw,  just to get a sliding table,  would not be a wise move. After reading some of your responses,  I think in agree. In light of that,  I'm leaning towards giving the Sawstop sliding table a try... And of course I'll continue to save up (or at least attempt to) until i can afford a good slider.  I'm going to check around on FOG to see if anyone has done a comparison of the 2 different sliding tables that Sawstop offers.  Thanks again for all the info.  I really appreciate everyone's time.

?????????  Hmmmm.  I got the exact opposite opinion from reading the posts in this thread.  A vast majority thought the sliding table on the Hammer was far far far superior to the SawStop sliding table and that the Hammer slider far outweighed the safety feature of the SawStop itself.  So get the superior Hammer sliding table over getting the SawStop safety feature and its inferior sliding table.

 

[cider]

I can only speak for myself, but I don’t find the Hammer “far” superior, but it is my preference. I respect Sawstop’s safety features, but a slider can also be used more safely than a traditional (non-Sawstop) saw.

To be more direct, if I were the OP, and I really wanted a slider, I’d get a euro-style one. Otherwise I’d keep and enjoy a really nice cabinet saw

 

[Lbob131]

I have  the Hammer  C3 31  combination machine.
It has a 2.5m  slider.

One  of the jobs I do quite  often is  slice  2.4m  plywood  into  narrow  strips.
And  these  are  my findings....
With a  cabinet  saw  the  accuracy  quickly  deteriorates.
With  my  festool  track saw, it has  reasonable  accuracy  but  is  time  consuming.
With my  standard  (skil)  circular  saw  using the  fence  guide  it  has  reasonable  accuracy  and  reasonable  speed.

With  the slider  it is  fast  and  accurate.
So I would class  the slider as  superior  to all the other  options.

 

[ChuckM]

To be more direct, if I were the OP, and I really wanted a slider, I’d get a euro-style one. Otherwise I’d keep and enjoy a really nice cabinet saw

The most objective comment I find in this whole thread. [thumbs up]