Slop in Parf Dogs

[kwolfe]

So I just got my replacement MTF3 top and parf dogs in the mail yesterday and had a few minutes to play with them last night.  The parf dogs came very nicely packaged from Lee Valley in clear plastics tubes with a foam disc separating the two pieces (got short and tall).

However I was a little disappointed when I put them in the holes.  I know they are milled to 19.90mm for a 20mm hole, but I didn't think I would notice that much wiggle in them.  The tall dogs definitely move a fair amount when you push laterally on them up higher where the rail would sit.

I did get star knobs with the set and when you use them with the tall dogs, they are absolutely rock solid.  The shorter dogs only wiggle a little but I was under the impression that the fit would be wiggle free.

Are my expectations unrealistic?  Should I return them and try Qwas dogs & rail dogs?  What do they measure?  I'm more worried about accuracy and less about speed of set up as I am only a weekend hobbyist.

 

[sl_1800]

I just bought a set and noticed the same thing.  I just use them with the knobs.  I also have some qwas dogs and they fit so tight they often won't go in the hole.

 

[rljatl]

The qwas dogs have a tiny bevel where the top meets the shaft.  This bevel keeps them tight.

 

[kwolfe]

So it sounds like the qwas are better/more accurate than the parf dogs?  I like the parf prices but I'm planning on having these for a long time so I really don't mind spending the extra a couple of dollars.

 

[kwolfe]

Does anyone know if rail dogs will fit a dewalt track?

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Same here, received my parf dogs and bench dogs the other week and I too was surprised by the wiggle as I expected a solid fit. 
Perhaps a mild taper would have provided a better fit? Might look into the Qwas dogs.

 

[grbmds]

I haven't noticed any "slop" in the Parf dogs which I bought some time ago. I have some dogs with a set for ripping on the MFT from Rip Dogs which do fit tighter, but I have found that there are some holes in the MFT top that must be an infitessimal amount smaller in diameter. Putting the Rip Dogs dogs in those holes makes it difficult to get them in and out. Seems like it's a balancing act, but I haven't noticed that either the Rip Dogs dogs or the Parf dogs affect accuracy, regardless of how tight they fit. I suppose you'd want them tighter rather than looser to start but they are both very useful for my work.

 

[PreferrablyWood]

Mine fit tight as can be, If they are too tight then it becomes somewhat difficult to work with...

 

[mazmes]

Does anyone know if rail dogs will fit a dewalt track?

Yes they do.

 

[kwolfe]

All packed up and ready to go back tomorrow. Now I need to decide between par for precision dogs. I like the precision rail dogs that have the collar. Nice addition. Plus they have low profile dogs.
Any thoughts if anyone had both?  I want to make sure they don't have slop since this is replacing my table saw.

 

[Len R]

I also have the tall Parf dogs from Lee Valley, and am surprised at the amount of wiggle room.  On a long piece, it is enough to result in an out of square cut. The movement is the same no matter what hole I place the dog in.  And this was in the summer, with higher humidity.  In winter, as the top dries out, the holes will get a touch wider, and the slop will be more.  They are nicely machined and finished, very high quality, but the size is just off.

 

[bkharman]

All packed up and ready to go back tomorrow. Now I need to decide between par for precision dogs. I like the precision rail dogs that have the collar. Nice addition. Plus they have low profile dogs.
Any thoughts if anyone had both?  I want to make sure they don't have slop since this is replacing my table saw.

I have both Qwas and Precision dogs. I use a lot of the other Precision tools/accessories and a lot of it works together. All in all, I have about 6 different manufacturers in my dog pile... They each have their purpose.

Good luck and let us know how you end up.

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[kwolfe]

Bryan,
Curious on your perspective. I would be getting a pair of regular dogs, shirt dogs and rail dogs with the collars and knobs. Seems like the shorter set might come in handy and definitely couldn't hurt to have. All of the precision stuff has tapped holes which could come in handy also. As far as the rail dogs, seems like with the collars you could convert to a parf style set up as well.

I guess I'm asking, is there any reason to go with qwas instead?  Is the fit better because that is my primary concern here. If they fit equally as snug than the choice seems like a no brained.

 

[bkharman]

Bryan,
Curious on your perspective. I would be getting a pair of regular dogs, shirt dogs and rail dogs with the collars and knobs. Seems like the shorter set might come in handy and definitely couldn't hurt to have. All of the precision stuff has tapped holes which could come in handy also. As far as the rail dogs, seems like with the collars you could convert to a parf style set up as well.

I guess I'm asking, is there any reason to go with qwas instead?  Is the fit better because that is my primary concern here. If they fit equally as snug than the choice seems like a no brained.

Like I said, they both have room in my shop. I like the fit about equal on both. I have the Precision Plate, and their parallel guides and a handful of the dogs. They fit snug and have a small relief on the inner collar that keeps them flat on the MFT. The Qwas dogs are also nice but are more of a plug or stop kind. Again, I use both... And to be honest, I almost don't think about them. My brain just clicks in and I reach for the appropriate ones for the job.

I wouldn't hesitate to get a set of both. They are both really strong products. I do lean towards the Precision stuff because I have a bit of it and I can mix and match when I need to. Jerry at Precision is a great guy to deal with.

Bryan

 

[Ivanhoe]

I have qwas dogs, short, regular, and the rail dogs and they fit my mft replacement top very well. I will prob get some dogs that are tapped in the near future though to have on hand. I have to use the short dogs with my Mafell rails so the saw will clear them. Precision makes great products. I have their parallel guides and they work well.

 

[Claimdude]

I have several brands of dogs as well. My Parf dogs have too much slop for my taste. They are fine with the knob attached to the bottom but that tends to be too much trouble most of the time. I have a top cut by a cnc guy in Shreveport, LA so the holes are 20 mm exactly much like the newer MFTs as I understand it. When I get LeeValley dogs I get the larger ones. Qwas made some for me that are a perfect fit. The Park dogs really should be slightly larger. I checked mine and if I remember are between 19.8 & 19.85 mm. The dogs that fit really well are 19.9 mm and maybe a smidge over.

Jack

 

[HaKLc]

I have Parf dogs and custom made MFT top and dogs fit like a glove. My dogs are exactly 20mm in diameter and holes 20.1mm.

I ordered them from Dieter Schmid Fine Tools and they are made by Veritas.
It also says that dogs are 19.9 mm in diameter and fit snugly in 20mm holes on MFT 3.

I also made 20.2 mm hole for a test and dogs wiggle a bit.

 

[Bob Gerritsen]

I have Parf dogs and custom made MFT top and dogs fit like a glove. My dogs are exactly 20mm in diameter and holes 20.1mm.

I ordered them from Dieter Schmid Fine Tools and they are made by Veritas.
It also says that dogs are 19.9 mm in diameter and fit snugly in 20mm holes on MFT 3.

I also made 20.2 mm hole for a test and dogs wiggle a bit.

So how do you make an 20.2 mm hole exactly? I reckon you don't use woodworking tools for that, right?

Cheers, Bob.

 

[HaKLc]

I made 20.2mm with a CNC router.

I went for exact 20mm hole but dogs fitted too tight, so I made another one with 20.1mm in diameter which was excellent...
So at that point I made 20.2mm hole just for test and it was too big - wiggle appeared.

The thing is that my Parf dogs are 20 mm in diameter and not 19.9 mm as they should be but I'm fine with that because I can make my own MFT top. Or I can ask my friend to reduce diameter of those dogs for 0.1mm but it was more fun doing tests on CNC router.  ;D

 

[kwolfe]

Just got my assortment of precision dogs in the mail this afternoon and I will say that they seem to be machined very well. Definitely lighter than the parf dogs as they are not stainless. They really fit the holes of my replacement mft better. Hairy any noticeable wiggle (and I'm being really nitpicky here). I will say that Jerry over at precision has provided me with A+ customer service. He answer all my questions and was great to work with. I would highly recommend his stuff.