So - sell me a Carvex ......

[woodbutcherbower]

My much-loved Mafell P1CC ('the best jigsaw in the world') recently expired at only 3 years old, and with maybe just 300 hours on the clock. My local Mafell-authorised repair dealer has quoted £357 ([eek] !!!!) to replace the open-circuit Cuprex motor - but I can buy a brand-new P1CC in a proper (i.e. not Bott-style) T-Loc Systainer for only £62 more than that. Totally unacceptable to me - not least of all because somewhere in the world, there's a vast pile of broken, cheap, mostly-Chinese, home-user-grade, unfixable, disposable power tools whose existence isn't doing our precious planet any favours. I've fired off an email to Mafell in Germany, but if they don't play ball, I won't be going down the grey-and-red route again. The equipment's great, but I greatly value customer service and - above all - the reliability expected from a top-dollar professional product, along with the facility to get it repaired at a sensible cost.

I recently suffered a chuck failure on a Hilti SF6H combi. I called their customer service team, who sent a courier to collect the tool from me the same day. It was repaired the following day at their national repair centre (Glasgow, Scotland), and shipped back out on the same courier, on the same day, and delivered to the site where I was working -  the same day. Total downtime was less than 48 hours, and total cost was £72 - with a 6-month warranty on the repair, and a maximum 30% of-new-price-capped-for-life-repair-cost on the entire tool. Now that's service. Sure - you inevitably pay for it upfront with the cost of the tool, but for a professional user like me - it's golden.

Front-runner for potential replacement is therefore the cordless 22v Hilti, as I'm already heavily invested in their battery platform. But the Carvex at almost the same price? What does it do really well, what are its advantages over the Mafell? What's good and not-so-good about it? Does it take standard Bosch-type bayonet blades? I'm completely open-minded about this - I just need something reliable and built to a level of quality and performance. My TS55 and OF2200 have been tortured, but still work as well as the day I bought them, so I'm 100% open to another Festool. I've never used the 420, so I'd value your experience.

Thanks in advance for any advice or guidance.

Best wishes from England.

 

[Coen]

For what use? Do you need battery powered?

Can't you buy the Mafell motor as a part and fix the thing yourself?

 

[woodbutcherbower]

For what use? Do you need battery powered?

Can't you buy the Mafell motor as a part and fix the thing yourself?

I already tried, Coen. Mafell won't supply parts to anyone except authorised dealers and country distributors. Uses - mainly decorative scrolling work, plus carcass cutouts for pipework on kitchens etc. Nothing heavy or strenuous. Battery - not especially, I already have 22v Hilti batteries though, 5.2AH and 8.0AH. Really no preference cordless vs corded.

BTW - I lived in your fine country during the late 1960's. I remember running home from school to watch 'De Fabeltjeskrant'  [smile] It always made me smile when I heard the local people describing Valkenburg as the 'Dutch Alps' - 300m above sea level  [big grin] [big grin] I lived in Limburg, right next to the German border. Happy, happy times.

Hallo Meneer de Uil. My sister was in love with Zoef de Haas. My favourite was always Stoffel de Schildpad. Apologies if I got the spelling wrong - it was a long time ago.

Anyway - jigsaws ......

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I had the "industry norm" Bosch for years. I did what I needed, but was the older model with the twist top to lock in the blade, so fiddly, but functional. I also had a Makita LXT cordless, biggest disappointment in tool purchases ever. When I lost at all to a fire, I had the opportunity to truly up-grade.
I had just started getting into Festool a few years before that and decided to go with PS420 when I started replacing stuff. I went with the barrel-grip version, which I never had before either.
I like it, but I'm not an intense user of jigsaws. The one disadvantage is that they are intended to be used with dust extraction, so there is no blower for the chips. You really need to have the extractor hooked up of the dust gets overwhelming, especially if you are trying to stay on a line.
The quick disconnect for the bases is very easy to use. The tilting base is a separate unit, the main base does not tilt, there is no mechanism for it to tilt on the saw itself.
Yes they use the standard T-shank blades.

 

[mino]

The PSC or PSBC are absolutely fine. Some love the PSBC as it has dual controls so can be used "barrel-style" as well as the native "iron-style".

For your uses, you will likely be OK with the base package with the fixed 90-degree base only.

It is probbaly easier to say what it does not do so well. It is simply not that great at streaight cuts, nowhere close to the P1CC. The Blade is not guided as strictly as on the Maffel so if you wanted it to replace your circular saw it is not a good choice. COmpared to any other jigsaw on the market, IMO it is at least as good or better to most. And I will second to avoid the Makitas. Yes, it uses the Bosch style blades system.

If you are not on the Festool platform yet, there are two other tools you should look at to justify/not in my view:
1) The cordless Vecturo multitool. It is an excellent tool with only the best Fein being comparable. But oit beats even that with the accessories availability. And it is reasonably priced too.

2) The cordless angle grinder AGC 18. With speed control it is my second most-used tool with a sanding disc attached 90% of the time and used at minimum speed to rough sanding anything that comes my way. Heh.

 

[Coen]

If you don't need the fancy accessories nor care about the weight, you can just as well get a Trion.

Lame that Mafell doesn't sell spare parts. Festool does.

 

[FestitaMakool]

I just checked the FT UK page.. They carry the Trion too.
It’s an alternative, a more no nonsense Carvex with a standard sole which can be tilted.
What’s missing from the Carvex is the exchangeable soles, and they are only corded.

From what I judge by the extremely high number of sales of used Trion’s it’s widespread by the pros. Many are sold battered and very hard used, but still running.

Mafell uses thick blades, so are many of Festool’s that fit most jigsaws. I’ve a Carvex cordless, a Makita barrel grip corded and a Makita 12V cordless CXT for its compact convenience, when using my 12V Makita drills which shares the battery.

The friction jaws that the Carvex and Trion has really helps. But after testing the Makita CXT with a thicker blade from Festool the cuts were much more perpendicular to the surface. Not as good as the Carvex, and this is most noticeable in deeper cuts, and when perpendicularity are important.

Factor in the blades when judging a jigsaws performance.
(And yes, Mafell with the P1CC have a reputation here too to be the king of jigsaws)

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have never used a Trion. I picked one up at the local dealer and was shocked at the weight.
It does give the feel of quality, but if you ever have to use your saw upside-down, not so great.

Someone at Festool had it right with the light going off when you run it upside-down.
The slow-start "Auto" setting is pretty cool too.

 

[Laminator]

I have corded and cordless carvex. They work very well for what I use them for which is mainly sink and appliance cutouts in laminate countertops.  I still have the trion and it is a very good saw. The trion's biggest drawback is seeing the cut line with the shield in place (necessary for dust collection), which is a real problem for me.  With the shield removed sight is fine.  I do like the carvex much better!

 

[Cheese]

Well that's unfortunate...I assumed the Mafell unit was bullet proof.  [sad]  That Mafell repair price reminds me of the Kawasaki H1 fiasco in the early 70's. The price for a new H1 crankshaft was only $700 less than the price of a complete new motorcycle. [jawdrop]

I originally picked up a Trion when Festool dropped the price about 10 years ago. I then purchased a Carvex about 3 years later thinking it was an upgrade...it wasn't. Then about 5 years ago I picked up a P1 cc thinking it was an upgrade...it definitely WAS.

So I'd rate them P1 cc first, Trion second and Carvex a distant third. The Trion is a really nice jigsaw for the money. A lot heavier and more solid than the Carvex.

 

[peter halle]

Try the Carvex under your country's try it for xx days.  Use some cheaper Bosch blades and DO NOT buy the accessories unless you are happy with the saw.  It will take a little bit of time to get used to it and if you get the barrel grip learn to use you pointing finger to turn the saw on and off - not your thumb.

Just some thoughts.

Peter

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I don't have the Carvex but I do have the Trion. (older version) In fact, it was the first Festool I bought due to the "circumstance of need". Excellent product, IMHO, including pretty darn good accuracy with thick material. And yes, standard blades, although I pretty much use the Festool blades since I have a "whole bunch" of them.

 

[MikeGE]

When I was looking for a replacement for my Bosch jigsaw, I thought I wanted the Carvex PS 420.  My local distributor had some in stock and I was ready to buy.  The guy who handles the customer returns recommended I buy the Trion PS 300 instead because he doubted I would be happy with the Carvex. 

I bought the PS 300 EQ Plus and am happy with it.  My only complaint about the PS 300 is not being able to see the blade with the dust shroud installed.

 

[Lincoln]

I really don't think you'll be happy with the carvex, coming from a P1CC. If it were me, I'd get another P1, after that a Trion.

 

[squall_line]

I echo all of the comments so far; based on what I've read of your past posts and your unfortunate experience with Mafell, I can't see you being happy with the Carvex.  Even Festool's most ardent fans are usually unhappy with the Carvex and although it's not the most disappointing of the tools that they make, it's definitely a love it or hate it tool within their lineup.

I don't remember if the UK has the "try it for xx days" program like the US has, but if it does, I would strongly second (or third) the idea of trying a Carvex before committing to it.

 

[ScotF]

If you go with a Carvex, get a battery version. The weight of the battery helps balance the Carvex. I found the corded version light weight, but hard to control in certain materials because it bounces around. I like the Trion and bought a D handle after selling my barrel grip a few years ago. It cuts well and tracks just fine. My favorite is the Mafell. You already know how it cuts. I also have a Bosch JS572. Plenty of power and cuts well, but some deflection whereas none on Mafell or with Festool saws. I like the convenience of cordless but if I could only have one saw, the Mafell would've it. In NA you can buy the parts, so unfortunate not available to you.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Sincere thanks to all who have responded - this kind of honest objectivity is exactly what I was looking for, and I really appreciate it.

I’ve called a buddy in the trade who’s going to loan me his Carvex for a day. I can also get the local Hilti rep over to bring me their cordless to try out. As said - I’ll wait for a response from Mafell. I’ll post again with the outcome as soon as there is one.

Thanks again to all.

 

[Coen]

I have never used a Trion. I picked one up at the local dealer and was shocked at the weight.
It does give the feel of quality, but if you ever have to use your saw upside-down, not so great.

Someone at Festool had it right with the light going off when you run it upside-down.
The slow-start "Auto" setting is pretty cool too.

Yeah, above the head it gets tiring, fast.

But how often do you do that anyway? I think in 12 years... not even 12 minutes.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have never used a Trion. I picked one up at the local dealer and was shocked at the weight.
It does give the feel of quality, but if you ever have to use your saw upside-down, not so great.

Someone at Festool had it right with the light going off when you run it upside-down.
The slow-start "Auto" setting is pretty cool too.

Yeah, above the head it gets tiring, fast.

But how often do you do that anyway? I think in 12 years... not even 12 minutes.

Upside-down is not necessarily over-head.
You're right about percentage of over-head cut time, very minimal, which is a good thing.
I do some cutting upside-down though. Laminate is not fond of cutting toward the surface, so cutting from the other side can be helpful. Sometimes you simply can't just turn the piece over.
Yes, they do make blades that cut on the down stroke....and they suck. You can absolutely tell that this was the brain-child of some engineer who has never touched a tool in his life. The pendulum stroke is working against the way these teeth are pointing. The only thing you can really do is turn it to zero, but then any jigsaw is being strangled. It also leads to vibration and unstable cuts.

 

[southrider]

For me  - the biggest complaint with the Carvex is that you have to get out a hex head allen wrench EVERY time you change a blade, and re-adjust the adjustable blade guides. Slightly too tight and you have burnt up a blade. Too loose and your cut is all over the place. Mine recently spit the carbide guide out on the wood, and was toast until I ordered new ones. Had to get out the 20 yr. old Bosch to finish.

When trying your friends saw pay particular attention to this and see if it drives you crazy. Some seem not to mind - but I'm ready to sell mine and pony up for a Mafell.

Things I LOVE - the aforementioned soft start is fantastic to help you find the line with the blade at the beginning of a cut. The STROBE light is really neat too - freezing the blade as you are cutting. THIS - with excellent (for a jig saw) dust collection makes it easier to see what you are doing.

I bought all the fancy bases, and have hardly used them at all. Just don't see it in practical use.

If wishes were fishes I'd want a cordless Mafell with universal batteries that had soft start and a great led light!