some people just don't get it

[HowardH]

I'm one of the 500,000,000 who own a Camry that was subject to the recall.  [crying]  I took it in to a local dealer yesterday and as I was standing at the cashiers window this morning, I was proudly wearing my Festool cap.  Some guy, obviously a contractor of some sort, said something to the effect of what expensive tools my cap represents.  I asked him if he owned any and he said no, he couldn't afford them.  I responded with if he was making a living with his tools, he couldn't afford not to have them.  Turns out he owns a cabinet shop and likes horsing around 4 x 8 sheets of plywood onto his PM2000 (which he thought was underpowered with a 5hp motor) and must love dust!  [scared]  I tried to explain the value of the system, the fantastic dust collection, the ease of breaking down sheet goods but to no avail.  I don't expect him to become a FOG'ger anytime soon.  I guess he thought I was just some rich guy (far from it, unfortunately  [sad]) who had money to burn but I think owning festools will save me a lot over the long run.  No desire or need to be constantly replacing them with something I may perceive as better.  Some folks just don't get it. 

 

[Frank Pellow]

I suggest inviting the guy to your place for a demonstration.  I have done that several times and everyone has been impressed.  This has resulted in more than one (probably about half a dozen) sale for Festool.

 

[Dan Clark]

I'm one of the 500,000,000 who own a Camry that was subject to the recall.   [crying]  I took it in to a local dealer yesterday and as I was standing at the cashiers window this morning, I was proudly wearing my Festool cap.  Some guy, obviously a contractor of some sort, said something to the effect of what expensive tools my cap represents.  I asked him if he owned any and he said no, he couldn't afford them.  I responded with if he was making a living with his tools, he couldn't afford not to have them.  Turns out he owns a cabinet shop and likes horsing around 4 x 8 sheets of plywood onto his PM2000 (which he thought was underpowered with a 5hp motor) and must love dust!   [scared]  I tried to explain the value of the system, the fantastic dust collection, the ease of breaking down sheet goods but to no avail.  I don't expect him to become a FOG'ger anytime soon.  I guess he thought I was just some rich guy (far from it, unfortunately  [sad]) who had money to burn but I think owning festools will save me a lot over the long run.  No desire or need to be constantly replacing them with something I may perceive as better.  Some folks just don't get it.  

Howard,

Here's the rules...  

If they don't have any, Festool tools are extremely expensive!!!  When they buy their first Festool, then the tools are "pricey, but worth it".   When they buy their second Festool, the tools are "reasonably priced".  By the time they buy their third, the Festools are "Dirt Cheap!"  

Regards,

Dan.

 

[JohnDistai]

But if you don't know him well and you invite him over, he then knows where to break in and steal some expensive tools....

I once learned long ago that it isn't my job to sell people on stuff.  If they are interested, they will show genuine interest and ask to be shown.

 

[HowardH]

This guy didn't look like the most trustworthy guy either.  Of course, I could be and probably would be wrong in my judgement but why tease the tiger?  It was one of those "poor me" kind of things.

 

[Frank Pellow]

Howard and John, I refuse to go through life suspecting people.  I am convinced that most people are decent, that they respect your trust, and that they respond in a good way to it.

Until they prove otherwise, I trust everyone.  And, I have seldom been dissapointed.

 

[JohnDistai]

I applaud your trust and belief in the common man.  Didn't Ronald Reagan have some quote like "trust the man but still tie up your camel" or "trust but verify".  There was some quote by him that was to that effect.

Perhaps a better response to the guy would have been "hey, if you're interested in the Festool system and its advantages, go visit to check them out."  That way you get to come across as friendly, leave the sales pitch to those who would deliver and benefit from it, and maintain your privacy.

 

[HowardH]

Frank, I used to be that way but some guys broke into my truck last year not once but twice and stole radar detectors, gps's, a laptop and projector.  In my driveway.  The cops say this is happening more and more since the economy went down hill.  Now, I don't leave anything of value in my truck.  Ever.  I close the garage door even If I'm going to be in the house for 5 minutes.  It would be too easy for people who don't give a s...t about taking someone else's hard earned property to run off with some of it.  We live in Plano, considered to be a pretty safe town.  However, that being said, I also think most people are trustworthy.  It's the very small minority that cause all the trouble.  I have bought and sold many things on Ebay without issue.  I have also sold many things on the FOG and I'm always amazed how we trust someone to send us hundreds of dollars to someone they have never laid eyes on and then that same person grants us that same trust that we will deliver to them what was represented in good order.  I was burned once on Ebay when I was trying to buy a Leigh FMT.  It was a classic phishing scheme and I should have known better.  $800 down the tubes.  As it turns out, they were overseas somewhere (the weasily bastards) so I had no recourse.  Never again.  Unfortunately, we have be more like what Reagan said, "trust but verify".  

 

[tallgrass]

No ,i do not think that you get it. he is your competition. Eat his lunch, take his work, be glad you found him, i would go look at his operation, take notes and not do what he does. It is time to expand into his customer base.  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

 

[tallgrass]

then buy more tools [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I am keeping them a secret from other carpenters in my
area, I don't want them to figure out how I do it.

 

[harry_]

Howard,

I hear what you are saying about some people just not getting it. There is a hardwood flooring contractor that I have been on many job sites with. On the job we met on he saw my TS75 and made a comment about me having deep pockets to be buying Festool. I pointed to a piece of 3/4 MDO and asked him how I was supposed to break it down "that" (pointing to my tablesaw) by myself. Of course he mentioned 2 or 3 ways I _could_ do it. As we (those with TSx5 saws) are well aware we abandoned those methods for a reason or several reasons. His response was 'well I don't really have the need'. To that, and for him I could agree.

Then on another job, I had just gotten my RO125. Again with the 'deep pockets' and 'look at who is making all the money'. By this time I had enough time with the sander to know what it was all about as well. I told him straight out `you just don't get it do you`. His response was basically 'I get it just fine. No hand sander is worth $400! who can afford that?! (heavily peppered with expletives).

It was but just a few days later when his Rigid sander died on him as he was working some edges. I had been using the Rotex on some rail work and was about 10 minutes to being done. I talked him into going for coffee while I finished up. When we were done with our coffees I handed him the sander. He was very happy with my offer of a loaner so he could finish his task at hand and I moved on to other things in the house.

It wasn't very long after he came to tell me he was DONE and had gotten about twice the work done in about one half the time. he also told me the next time I see him he would be OWNING one.

I guess you could say.......... he (finally) got it. As for me, now that I own one, I would be quite comfortable in saying that the Rotex would still be a bargain at twice the price!

 

[HowardH]

I'm not a contractor so I don't usually have to be worried about time being money, however, I still value MY time so when I can get something done quicker and better by using this system, I appreciate it!  A perfect example was when I started using a T15 with the centrotec torx drivers with the centrotec drill/countersink on some chairs I have been building.  Being able to pop a bit in and out has saved me a lot time.  Using my MFS as side fence to rip repeated seat slats saved huge amounts of time and each slat was perfect.  I also like not having to spend 30 minutes to an hour cleaning up, either.  I would imagine that alone would be worth a lot for someone who does this for a living. 

 

[mwhafner]

Most in the US have lost perspective of the value of things.  It is near impossible to explain to the masses, but true.  We pay a premium for Festool, but it isn't near the perceived premium.  

I bought a Makita circ saw 21 years ago, and I paid $129 for it (5007NBK).  You can buy the "same" model for $99 at many of the big box stores.  The laws of economics dictate that, all things being equal, the same saw should cost about $210 now.  Have we spent the last 20 years in a deflationary economy?  No.  Obviously, Makita is -

a) more efficient in making the product
b) making the product to a lower standard

I think the answer is both of the above.  I doubt that you can expect 20 years or service out of the one you buy today.

Take a look at what DeWalt and Makita have done in the last couple of years with their "track saws".  When they put the design effort into a product that Festool does, price becomes a non-issue.  Both their track-saws are essentially the same price as a TS55.

How does Festool deal with the perception that they are too expensive?  They don't, as there is nothing to be gained.  Let the competition come to them in innovation, and price won't matter anymore.  

I really don't get the short-sightedness of so-called woodworking professionals.  For what Howard's example spent on a PM2000; I could buy a TS55, OF1400, CT22, and a PM64.  I can do anything with that setup he can do, and considerably safer.  

 

[PaulMarcel]

I like tallgrass's thinking   Take his business, buy more tools to be yet more efficient!!

I think the problem is the US market is wrought with the idea that everything is disposable and that everything should be replaced every year with the latest and greatest model.  Our automotive industry definitely promotes that (although strike the 'greatest' part).

I'm just a hobbyist, but in conversations with my Phoenix homie Marc Spagnuolo (The WoodWhispererWoodWhisperer), I was convinced that these were the best quality tools.  Obviously, long-term durability isn't as much an issue for hobbyists as we'll rarely run the sander continuously for 4 hours straight,  but the efficiency factors we all know and appreciate were there.  Oh, and I hate it when my hand is numb for days after sanding (I pay for the sander typing).

But to add something to this thread rather than tell you what you already know   I am selling some tools on CL.  A PM64 and C12 are the decent tools, but I also have several I was unfortunately left with when my dad passed away.  When a contractor came over with his glitzy pimped F-250, he basically wanted me to give away a miter mobile stand and a NIB dado stack.  He then commented that the PM64 looked pretty nice, but unfortunately he just bought another of those (pointing to my dad's very entry-level Craftsman TS that makes me nervous).  So here's a guy making money on his tools and based on our longer conversation, i know he only buys tools

 

[L2theP]

I guess you could say.......... he (finally) got it. As for me, now that I own one, I would be quite comfortable in saying that the Rotex would still be a bargain at twice the price!

Dont push it now Howard, it's not like these tools aren't the most expensive tools on the market already, lets not give festool ideas [poke].

 

[joiner1970]

I bet a lot of people who now own Festool tools used to look at them before they owned them and think  [eek] they are expensive I could never justify buying them, I know I did.

As soon as you own them you know that the system is great, the quality is great too, service, and in the long run they work out cheaper than all the other makes as you dont have to replace them as much.

 

[JohnDistai]

I just buy them for tool-snobbery.  I don't really build anything, but I had fun selling all my old tools and telling people I was getting Festool and seeing the look on their faces.  One day I'll practice by making some stuff and put them to real use by making some built-ins and toy boxes and stuff like that.

I sold my old Ryobi tablesaw just before I got my MFT.  I had it listed on Craigslist, and the first offer was 50% of what I was asking.  I told him that the offer was very generous, but no thanks.  After a lot of dickering, I got 4/5ths of what I was asking.  The guy told me that needed the saw to make extra money because he was on disability, and could barely make his mobile home payments.  I wasn't about to say "hey, thanks for buying this, I'm upgrading to Festool!"

I find it interesting that you point out the pimped out F-250.  I remember hearing Dave Ramsey talk about this on one of his shows.  He noticed that construction contractors commonly buy new pickups when they are just going to take it on site and get them dirty, scratched up, banged up, etc.  He was puzzled as to why this was the case, when an older truck that wasn't as expensive and could have served the same duty would have done the trick.  This isn't meant to be a comparison of other tools to Festool, just an interesting observation.

 

[bruegf]

John,

If you don't mind my asking what did you get for the Ryobi?  I have a Ryobi BT3000 that I will be selling once I finally take the plunge and buy a Sawstop.

Fred

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

There is really only one reason to this.
In general, America is a throw-away society.
We want it cheap and we want a bunch of it.
If it falls apart and breaks a few months later, we toss it and get a new one.

That is a way of thinking that is hard to change.

PS  I drive an 11 year old 3/4 ton suburban, pre-dented. [big grin]