Jiggy Joiner
Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2018
- Messages
- 1,103
It’s nice to see plenty of metal still being used, even if it is for the molds to make the plastic parts! [big grin] [thumbs up]
Someone was having an off day at festool recon
- Thread starter harry_
- Start date
Michael Kellough
Member
Thanks again, it’s very interesting to me.
Do you have any problem with epoxy melting the styrene cup?
Do you have any problem with epoxy melting the styrene cup?
DeformedTree
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2018
- Messages
- 1,397
As cheese mentions, draft is what drive a lot of the design. I don't make stuff for injection molding (experience with them was long ago), but I do design for castings. Drafts are part of the deal, but make stuff complicated fast for the person designing it. Plus you have to think in reverse for everything. A fillet is actually a radius, a radius is a fillet, since you may be modeling your end part, but what you are really designing is the mold/tool, so it all gets machined the other way around. I have nice 3D solid modeling to spin around and see it, section it, how the old timers did it, I really don't know, of course I also have to re-create stuff that goes back into the 1940s and the basic answer is they made plenty of mistakes on the drawings that the foundry person fixed. (side note, if you want to know a reason why I hate inches and fractions, it is in part because I'm forced to deal with old ass drawings and bring to the computer age and you see constantly why fractions and inches in fact do not work, .38+.25=.62 according to old timers). Files and sandpaper on wood can fudge a lot of things to work when math says it doesn't. Injection mold die people don't get to work with wood for their tooling.
When it comes to injection molded stuff with straight walls, I can really only imagine the very complex tools to make them, as you can't just pull in one direction, they will have to look like some sort of transformer exploding to get everything together and back again. On a simple level, it explains why things like totes and containers with straight walls cost so much more than their taper walled cousins.
When it comes to injection molded stuff with straight walls, I can really only imagine the very complex tools to make them, as you can't just pull in one direction, they will have to look like some sort of transformer exploding to get everything together and back again. On a simple level, it explains why things like totes and containers with straight walls cost so much more than their taper walled cousins.
Cheese
Member
Michael Kellough said:
None at all, look at the Simpson door refinishing review and you’ll see several of those cups in use. For me it’s the most inexpensive method to accurately measure the mixing of epoxy because I don’t use the stuff that often. However when you need to use it, it’s best that you’re proportions are accurate.
If you need a 3:1 mixture, I’ll take a shot glass and pour in 3 units of water into the styrene cup, mark it with a magic marker and then pour in 1 unit of water and mark it. Pour out the water, dry the cup and add the real deal.
Cheese
Member
Thanks for that [member=68063]DeformedTree[/member]... I tried to keep my synopsis about the project and not about me but you’re description of the design process is telling. [big grin]
You do have to literally think inside out in order to design an injection mold, especially if it was before the advent of CAD. I did everything on “the board” so the design had to be within your head or you’d be toast.
Just curious if Starrett shrink rules are still used in die casting? I know it sounds stupid...but I always wanted to use one but the shrink rates of metal are obviously different than the shrink rates of plastic.
You do have to literally think inside out in order to design an injection mold, especially if it was before the advent of CAD. I did everything on “the board” so the design had to be within your head or you’d be toast.
Just curious if Starrett shrink rules are still used in die casting? I know it sounds stupid...but I always wanted to use one but the shrink rates of metal are obviously different than the shrink rates of plastic.
Cheese
Member
Jiggy Joiner said:
Jiggy...you’re funny. [big grin] From a denier to a believer in just 3 days... there is a God. [smile]
Michael Kellough
Member
Cheese said:
Now that you don’t need them (for a couple of reasons) you could easily make one-off custom shrink scales. Temporary with an inkjet printer or permanent with laser engraving.
DeformedTree
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2018
- Messages
- 1,397
Cheese said:
I think I know what you are referring to. So I think most folks have moved on from the old ideas of shrink, now with computers, you can just take the model, enlarge it the correct percentage for shrink and have the mill carve based on that bigger model. I think when they make the part it's like anything else, soon as it's solid enough to get out of tool, die, mold, get it out so it can keep shrinking.
Bob Marino
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2007
- Messages
- 3,263
Peter Halle said:
Agree 100% Pete. Well done Tyler[member=6061]festool[/member].
Bob Marino
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2007
- Messages
- 3,263
I get that plastic doesn't necessarily mean cheap and as stated in many instances can be the prefereed material of choice.
But there is plastic and there is plastic. Case in point on the CT vac hose garage area. The other day I dropped a tool on it and a chunk of the hose garage cracked - the tool was not that heavy. Yesterday as a customer (who bought my CT 36) was taking off the Work Center, the small "prongs" that you place the WC on snapped/cracked. Great vacs for sure and I bet over the years I don't think I had more than 1 or 2 returns and that speaks volumes, but I do wish they made that plastic less fragile.
And this is just me but I have a Milwaukee corded drill I bought 20 or so years ago, and there's a lot of metal in that drill and has enough power to snap your wrist off if not careful, came in a metal box too. I am no drill expert or engineer, but I would bet that drill would outperform and outlast any "similar" drill made today. Yep, it's heavy, but an example of "they don't/can't/won't make 'em like this anymore."
But there is plastic and there is plastic. Case in point on the CT vac hose garage area. The other day I dropped a tool on it and a chunk of the hose garage cracked - the tool was not that heavy. Yesterday as a customer (who bought my CT 36) was taking off the Work Center, the small "prongs" that you place the WC on snapped/cracked. Great vacs for sure and I bet over the years I don't think I had more than 1 or 2 returns and that speaks volumes, but I do wish they made that plastic less fragile.
And this is just me but I have a Milwaukee corded drill I bought 20 or so years ago, and there's a lot of metal in that drill and has enough power to snap your wrist off if not careful, came in a metal box too. I am no drill expert or engineer, but I would bet that drill would outperform and outlast any "similar" drill made today. Yep, it's heavy, but an example of "they don't/can't/won't make 'em like this anymore."
Jiggy Joiner
Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2018
- Messages
- 1,103
Cheese said:
Haha! Thanks Cheese, as old as I am, I’m still open to persuasion. I must be learning, as yesterday and today, two CTM 26’s arrived, and that’s a lot of plastic but, I still found myself gazing in amazement at them! [eek] [big grin]
Michael Kellough
Member
I like some features of the Festool vacs a lot but not the large number of parts made of relatively brittle ABS plastic. They rattle, make noise, and are much more prone to breaking than the thick polyethylene that some manufacturers use.
I hope the good features serve you well and nothing breaks.
I hope the good features serve you well and nothing breaks.
Jiggy Joiner
Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2018
- Messages
- 1,103
Michael Kellough said:
I can only agree Michael, mine obviously have the new type garage/tops, and they certainly don’t look like they’d take much more than a glancing blow from a knee when bumping into them? Maybe a thin alloy top might have been a better albeit more expensive solution? I must resist the urge to think metal can take the place of plastic on a modern machine though. [tongue]
Joking aside, I put one of the CTM AC’s to task today, and I am honestly very pleased and impressed with them. I’m even getting used to the noise of the AC doing it’s thing!
vorsprung durch plastik! So to speak [wink]
Similar threads
