Square drive bits for Centrotec

[stvrowe]

One thing that I would like to see is square drive bits for the Centrotec chuck.  I suspect the demand for these in the US would be large.
Steve

 

[Jim Becker]

I've asked about this a number of times and the answer to-date has been "too expensive to produce in the quality that Festool owners would accept", more or less. I really do want "native" square/Robertson drive bits as I use those fasteners exclusively when I have the choice. I've "made" some from off-the-shelf bits using my lathe and a file to make do, but it's just not the same as a native solution. Very frustrating.

 

[PeterK]

Not sure where to place the blame here -
McFeelys for convincing me to convert to all square drive? 
Festool for not adopting and adapting the bits? 

 

[bionicus]

This is odd to me. I won't even consider Festool drills until they adopt Robertson bits. In Canada they're the standard for wood screws, and for good reason.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Problem solved.
[attachthumb=#]

I don't get all the fuss and certainly don't get why you'd let this prevent you from owning a great product like Festool's drills.  ???

 

[AlexThePalex]

I've asked about this a number of times and the answer to-date has been "too expensive to produce in the quality that Festool owners would accept", more or less. I really do want "native" square/Robertson drive bits as I use those fasteners exclusively when I have the choice. I've "made" some from off-the-shelf bits using my lathe and a file to make do, but it's just not the same as a native solution. Very frustrating.

Why would it be too expensive, and who exactly told you so? I can't see why a Robertson bit would have a different cost than a Pozidrive, Torx or a Philips.

And if you're desperate to have one, what so difficult about making one yourself? As far as I know, the square is one of the most basic geometric forms. All you need is a steady bench grinder. Take an existing Centrotec bit and grind it down to a square. Easy as pie.

In Canada they're the standard for wood screws, and for good reason.

What exactly is so fantastic about Robertson bits over others? Here in Europe, I NEVER encountered one. I knew they existed because I had to learn about them when I was in college for mechanical engineering, but I never saw them in practice. Here Pozidrive is the standard for wood screws and Torx is slowly but surely becoming the standard in industrial applications.

------

But guys, keep mentioning it here on the Forum and perhaps one day Festool will come to realise they need to expand the spectre with one more bit.

 

[bionicus]

Those holders aren't really the perfect solution. In my experience, at least with Robertson heads, the bits will often enough pull out, remaining stuck in the screw once you've driven it into the wood. Given that probably 95% of the screws I drive have Robertson heads, this tends to become a bit aggravating. I believe Festool might also make a holder with a quick release chuck to use with standard 2" bits, but again, you're adding to the length and space required to maneuver your drill into position, which is sometimes a commodity. I'm nitpicking, I know, but I think that's allowed if we're talking about a premium product here.

As for why I prefer Robertson over Phillips heads, the only other widely available option around here, basically it comes down to how well they grab onto each other before you've even set your screw against wood. With the recessed square in the screw you can pretty much get away with doing things one-handed and don't have to worry so much about gravity interfering. Assuming your bit hasn't rounded over too much with use, the screw sort of locks on. Pozidrive may be the same way, I don't have nearly as much experience with them.

At any rate, I'd just like to see centrotec Robertson bits made available. Make things tempting for me, that's all.

 

[tbellemare]

I know a lot of people over here like Robertson heads but I'm partial to torx...

Phillips was intentionally designed to torque out so the screws can't be broken, which has its value. They make assembly more difficult since they won't stay on the driver. With modern drivers using good clutches they should become extinct or relegated to hand tool applications only.

Tom

 

[woodshopdemos]

I've asked about this a number of times and the answer to-date has been "too expensive to produce in the quality that Festool owners would accept", more or less. I really do want "native" square/Robertson drive bits as I use those fasteners exclusively when I have the choice. I've "made" some from off-the-shelf bits using my lathe and a file to make do, but it's just not the same as a native solution. Very frustrating.

Jim,
  Try thte other way around. Get some of the larger Centrotec bits and file down end to make square.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Those holders aren't really the perfect solution. In my experience, at least with Robertson heads, the bits will often enough pull out, remaining stuck in the screw once you've driven it into the wood. Given that probably 95% of the screws I drive have Robertson heads, this tends to become a bit aggravating. I believe Festool might also make a holder with a quick release chuck to use with standard 2" bits, but again, you're adding to the length and space required to maneuver your drill into position, which is sometimes a commodity. I'm nitpicking, I know, but I think that's allowed if we're talking about a premium product here.

As for why I prefer Robertson over Phillips heads, the only other widely available option around here, basically it comes down to how well they grab onto each other before you've even set your screw against wood. With the recessed square in the screw you can pretty much get away with doing things one-handed and don't have to worry so much about gravity interfering. Assuming your bit hasn't rounded over too much with use, the screw sort of locks on. Pozidrive may be the same way, I don't have nearly as much experience with them.

At any rate, I'd just like to see centrotec Robertson bits made available. Make things tempting for me, that's all.

Bionicus, I use being bit facetious in my reply. You're right the dive tips do come out often on square drive screws and it can be a hassle.

 

[AlexThePalex]

As for why I prefer Robertson over Phillips heads, the only other widely available option around here, basically it comes down to how well they grab onto each other before you've even set your screw against wood. With the recessed square in the screw you can pretty much get away with doing things one-handed and don't have to worry so much about gravity interfering. Assuming your bit hasn't rounded over too much with use, the screw sort of locks on. Pozidrive may be the same way, I don't have nearly as much experience with them.

If Philips is the only alternative then I can understand the popularity of Robertson. I don't like Philips at all, the grip is very bad. Only thing worse than Philips is the plain old groove. Pozidrive has an excellent grip on the other hand. You can get away with a lot of things one handed, even though it does require some balancing sometimes. It is not as good as Torx. But then again, Torx was developed to be used in automated assembly lines, so that the screws would stick on the robot drill bits. I guess Robertson is more or less the same as Torx, when you look at the grip.

But you're saying you hardly got Pozidrive in America?  Didn't know that. There's still so many differences in the small things, between our cultures.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Alex, the only thing we have Pozidrive for here in the US is Euro hinge hardware, we really don't see it anywhere else. Phillips and slotted were pretty much all we had here, in the last 5-6 years the popularity of square and torx has grown tremendously. Phillips is by far the most used type used and for years that was the only option. When that's all you know it works out fine, I don't have a problem with them at all. 

 

[kdzito]

I prefer the Apex brand bits.  Hey, most of all I prefer the quick change bits.  I use the adapter and also have a non-Festool driver with the quick change chuck.  Although I have many Festools, I'm not familiar with their drill/drivers.  The Apex bits seem to last a little longer without losing grip.  I just used Apex #1 and #2 square bits on square drive #6 & #8 trim screws.

 

[EcoFurniture]

As for why I prefer Robertson over Phillips heads, the only other widely available option around here, basically it comes down to how well they grab onto each other before you've even set your screw against wood. With the recessed square in the screw you can pretty much get away with doing things one-handed and don't have to worry so much about gravity interfering. Assuming your bit hasn't rounded over too much with use, the screw sort of locks on. Pozidrive may be the same way, I don't have nearly as much experience with them.

If Philips is the only alternative then I can understand the popularity of Robertson. I don't like Philips at all, the grip is very bad. Only thing worse than Philips is the plain old groove. Pozidrive has an excellent grip on the other hand. You can get away with a lot of things one handed, even though it does require some balancing sometimes. It is not as good as Torx. But then again, Torx was developed to be used in automated assembly lines, so that the screws would stick on the robot drill bits. I guess Robertson is more or less the same as Torx, when you look at the grip.

But you're saying you hardly got Pozidrive in America?  Didn't know that. There's still so many differences in the small things, between our cultures.

hey Alex,

I'm from Germany, moved to Canada 8 years ago. Woodworker/Cabinet maker for more then 20 years... Let me tell you, everything is different here when it comes to wood working! The designs, materials building method, tools, hardware, standard dimensions... just everything! The first little while I thought I have to learn everything again!
Anyhow, I'm so glad we can get German tools here! I even drive a VW Eurovan Cargo.... I tried to become friends with North American vehicles and supplies, couldn't believe that anyone is buying that stuff....

I now own my own little company and make my own rules on how stuff gets build  ;D

 

[alanz]

If the bits sometimes pull out of the extension/adapter... why not just glue the bit into the adapter?  The only downside (or is it an upside) is that the bit with the extension is longer than a native bit.

 

[Daniel_n]

As for why I prefer Robertson over Phillips heads, the only other widely available option around here, basically it comes down to how well they grab onto each other before you've even set your screw against wood. With the recessed square in the screw you can pretty much get away with doing things one-handed and don't have to worry so much about gravity interfering. Assuming your bit hasn't rounded over too much with use, the screw sort of locks on. Pozidrive may be the same way, I don't have nearly as much experience with them.

If Philips is the only alternative then I can understand the popularity of Robertson. I don't like Philips at all, the grip is very bad. Only thing worse than Philips is the plain old groove. Pozidrive has an excellent grip on the other hand. You can get away with a lot of things one handed, even though it does require some balancing sometimes. It is not as good as Torx. But then again, Torx was developed to be used in automated assembly lines, so that the screws would stick on the robot drill bits. I guess Robertson is more or less the same as Torx, when you look at the grip.

But you're saying you hardly got Pozidrive in America?  Didn't know that. There's still so many differences in the small things, between our cultures.

hey Alex,

I'm from Germany, moved to Canada 8 years ago. Woodworker/Cabinet maker for more then 20 years... Let me tell you, everything is different here when it comes to wood working! The designs, materials building method, tools, hardware, standard dimensions... just everything! The first little while I thought I have to learn everything again!
Anyhow, I'm so glad we can get German tools here! I even drive a VW Eurovan Cargo.... I tried to become friends with North American vehicles and supplies, couldn't believe that anyone is buying that stuff....

I now own my own little company and make my own rules on how stuff gets build  ;D

What do you think about the square drives and bits? I understand that they are quite common in Canada (perhaps the US as well?), but they are rarely used in Sweden (torx and to some extent Pz are moste common, and of course Ph for drywall). However, I don't know what you usually use in Germany? Perhaps you were already familiar with square drivers?

 

[ForumMFG]

In my shop all we use are square drive bits.  Thats all I use at home as well.  In fact, you would find the sqaure drive screw & bits are the most commonly used screw in central ohio.  I have not ventured out to other shops outside of central ohio but I'm sure it's pretty common in ohio. The screws stay in the bit, they torque down great.  I buy #8 square drive flat head w/ nibs, Type 17 thread w/ auger point

 

[AlexThePalex]

I now own my own little company and make my own rules on how stuff gets build  ;D

Ah yes, since we got no army of our own, this is how we set out to conquer the Americas, one man at a time.  :

 

[EcoFurniture]

I now own my own little company and make my own rules on how stuff gets build  ;D

Ah yes, since we got no army of our own, this is how we set out to conquer the Americas, one man at a time.  :

I always say to my north american friends: You can be lucky we didn't win the war  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Otherwise you would all have to speak German now LOL

 

[EcoFurniture]

What do you think about the square drives and bits? I understand that they are quite common in Canada (perhaps the US as well?), but they are rarely used in Sweden (torx and to some extent Pz are most common, and of course Ph for drywall). However, I don't know what you usually use in Germany? Perhaps you were already familiar with square drivers?

Well, there not that many other options... you go to your supplier and all there is are square and + screws. That's it. I don't hate them but also don't like them.