Square drive bits for Centrotec

[Frank Pellow]

Festool has known about this requirement for at least 5 years.

I am very disappointed in their lack of support.  

My reaction is never to purchase another one of their drills (I do have a TDK 12) until they provide such bits.  I know that it's not much pressure but, other than notes like this that seem to get ignored, its all that I can do.  I am frustrated.  

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Are you guys dense, or just illiterate?

Wera makes the same shaft.

Jesus christ!!

And what the hell is wrong with the bit holder?  I have no issues with it.

 

[sw1211]

Here's everything Wera, http://chadstoolbox.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=577

Not to mention, many other options to lighten your wallet.

 

[ForumMFG]

Thanks steve

Are the Wera stainless steel bits the way to go?

 

[Christian93117]

Hello,

We are well aware of the need of square drive bits with Centrotec shaft. It is not that we don't want to sell square drive bits. We are a company, our purpose is to sell product. And
McFeely's is a company that wants to sell product. If we get requests for something, we look into it. Exactly this is what we did a long time ago, together with McFeely's.

So, why do we not have square drive bits in the program? It was not possible to find a supplier that could provide bits with Centrotec shank and square drive tips at an acceptable quality for an acceptable
price. We had numerous samples and did tests both here in the US and in Germany in the R&D department. The manufacturer of our bits doesn't have any expertise in square drive tips. Square drive bit manufacturers
couldn't manufacture the Centrotec shank at an acceptable price at the quality level Festool requires.

Yes, we want to fulfill all of your wishes, and we would like to provide square drive bits. And no, we are not going to fulfill those wishes if we have to compromise on quality. We want to be sure that if we provide a product,
it is at the quality level you came to expect from us.

Christian

 

[stvrowe]

Are you guys dense, or just illiterate?

Wera makes the same shaft.

Jesus christ!!

And what the hell is wrong with the bit holder?  I have no issues with it.

I see no need to resort to name calling and hurling insults at other members of this forum.
You want to know what is wrong with the bit holder OK - It is 0.02mm across the flats too small.  Now I have no idea whether the ball detent will work in the centrotec or not and at this point, really don't care.  The problem is more than just the centrotec, it expands to the eccentric chuck and right angle attachment as well.  Neill is spot on regarding Festool telling us what we need instead of providing us what we want.  It seems that if Festool marketing is smart enough to recognize that supplying 1/4" collets with their routers makes sense, the same argument could be made for centrotec bits.

 

[ForumMFG]

Christian,

Thanks for the information.  I didn't get the impression that Festool is still looking for a supplier?  Knowing Festool, they are but it didn't sound like it.  Secondly, it is shocking to me that it's so hard to produce a square drive bit at a affordable cost.  Just by looking at the bit it does not look like rocket science and if you ask me, the square drive would seem to be one of the easy bits to make because it square.  But, there's alot of things that go into the design of a product that a end user doesn't know about or appreciate or understand the complexity of it.

-Dave

 

[Frank Pellow]

Hello,

We are well aware of the need of square drive bits with Centric shaft. It is not that we don't want to sell square drive bits. We are a company, our purpose is to sell product. And
McFeely's is a company that wants to sell product. If we get requests for something, we look into it. Exactly this is what we did a long time ago, together with McFeely's.

So, why do we not have square drive bits in the program? It was not possible to find a supplier that could provide bits with Centronic shank and square drive tips at an acceptable quality for an acceptable
price. We had numerous samples and did tests both here in the US and in Germany in the R&D department. The manufacturer of our bits doesn't have any expertise in square drive tips. Square drive bit manufacturers
couldn't manufacture the Centronic shank at an acceptable price at the quality level Festool requires.

Yes, we want to fulfill all of your wishes, and we would like to provide square drive bits. And no, we are not going to fulfill those wishes if we have to compromise on quality. We want to be sure that if we provide a product,
it is at the quality level you came to expect from us.

Christian

Christian, there are lots of manufactures of square drive screws  and bits other than McFeely's.  Are you continuing to attempt to locate such a company that can make the Centronic bits that we want?  For example, have you contacted the Robertson Company (http://www.robertsonscrew.com/) that invented square drive screws (or Robertson screws as they are better known in Canada)?

 

[Anthony]

If you already have your favorite square drive bits...this might work.

As mentioned by Martin, I find the Festool Centrotec adaptor with mechanical bit locking is the answer for me, so I can easily use square square drive bits I already have.

 

[score0matic]

Christian, there are lots of manufactures of square drive screws  and bits other than McFeely's.  Are you continuing to attempt to locate such a company that can make the Centronic bits that we want?  For example, have you contacted the Robertson Company (http://www.robertsonscrew.com/) that invented square drive screws (or Robertson screws as they are better known in Canada)?

Frank
I looked on the site you just listed and on http://www.robertsonscrew.com/product_4100.html  the last line states.  "Other types and styles of drivers and bits made to order. "

Why don't we just have some made.  find out how much they would run for a batch and  see if they would drop ship them direct to FOGers

Craig

 

[ForumMFG]

I bet you a production run is thousands.

 

[AlexThePalex]

The manufacturer of our bits doesn't have any expertise in square drive tips.

I don't know, but it sounds like a strange excuse. Having gone through engineering college myself (not finished though) I know that engineers get an incredible large amount of maths and trigonometry. I'm sure their engineers could work out the shape of the bit, even if they never made one before. They also learn a lot about material properties and I'm also pretty sure they could work out a way to make the bits really strong. 

Square drive bit manufacturers
couldn't manufacture the Centrotec shank at an acceptable price at the quality level Festool requires.

That's weird. Acceptable price? Other manufacturers have no problem putting quality bits on the market for less than half what Festool charges.

 

[Jim Becker]

If you already have your favorite square drive bits...this might work.

I use it. But it has the disadvantage of extending the length of the drill/driver/bit combination and obviating some of the compact advantage of the Festool product.
---

At this point, I remain skeptical about the supposition that quality Robertson/square drive bits cannot be manufactured in a Centrotec format at an acceptable price point. In fact, I would think that they would be easier to make than the more complicated Posidrive and Torx formats, even with the subtle tapering that's required. CNC machines are pretty good at that...

 

[lcc]

Hi,fellow festool fanatics; just use a grinder to knock the edges of of the hex of  a 2" long #1,#2,#3 square drive and grind a detent relief
so that it is captured in the chuck.Don't grind a tip you will lose the surface hardness. All ss exterior finish and inside finish screws are now Robertson drive.There are other "phillips" type screws,reed and prince,phearson these two previous are used in wooden boat building.one size bit will fit #4 to an #16 screw. The taper is the same , the cross grows exponentialy as the size screw increases and the shaft size of the bit gets larger yet they will work .

 

[Brice Burrell]

If you already have your favorite square drive bits...this might work.

I use it. But it has the disadvantage of extending the length of the drill/driver/bit combination and obviating some of the compact advantage of the Festool product.

Jim, this is where I don't understand the problem, Festool's Centrotec bits are as long or longer than the locking bit holder and screw driver tip. The advantage Centrotec bits have over the the locking bit holder is a smaller diameter so they'll fit into a deep recess like a pocket screw hole. The need for is deep recess ability is very limited and can easily be accomplished by using a regular long bit in the keyless chuck.

I don't mean any disrespect but I think people have really blown this issue out of proportion.

At this point, I remain skeptical about the supposition that quality Robertson/square drive bits cannot be manufactured in a Centrotec format at an acceptable price point. In fact, I would think that they would be easier to make than the more complicated Posidrive and Torx formats, even with the subtle tapering that's required. CNC machines are pretty good at that...

That's my knee jerk reaction too but giving it more thought I'm not so sure. My understanding is the price to manufacture something goes way up once the tolerances pass a certain point, that could be the case here. And we have no idea what Festool considers an acceptable price.  

 

[tbellemare]

just use a grinder to knock the edges of of the hex of  a 2" long #1,#2,#3 square drive and grind a detent relief

Though a regular hex drive bit can be ground to fit into the Centrotec chuck, it must be deep enough to engage the internal hex of the output shaft of the drill. The image below shows the anatomy of the Centrotec system. The part in blue is the output shaft of the drill...

[attachimg=#1]

Tom

 

[lcc]

There is no problem with that on non tapered shafts the detent is matched up to festools bit. I have a set of high speed drills and bits with hex all ground to fit centrotec. I wish that I could make vix bits work but the shafts are too short. :

 

[HowardH]

I second the GRK screws.  I found some locally at Rockler, they had a decent selection and when combined with the centrotec Torx pattern bits, they work great!  It's nice being able to quickly switch between the driver and drill bits and those torx patterns simply don't slip.  I always thought one screw is like another (don't go there, please  ) but there is a difference!  I have a supply of square drive I have to use up but after that, it's GRK all the way.  I will need to buy a few thousand of them this fall when I replace my deck.  Their composite screws should work well. 

 

[Martin Johnson]

I like the GRK as well.  The guys here like both Wurth and GRK...I tried the the GRK for the first time this week, as Rockler carried them, and I stocked up on about $70 of various lengths...I've used square drive and like them as well, but I have to confess that I am now a GRK Torx convert.  They went into hard maple and maple ply clean as a whistle, no pre-drilling and no tear-out when they went below the surface.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Glad to see you guys were able to use some of the GRK's and were happy with them.

The only screw I have been using for the last few years, minus drywall screws for drywall.

The GRK's are champs.  Torx heads are the way to go, no slip out.