Squaring Melamine & Working myself to death - Suggestions?

[LaserGecko]

Hi everyone,

I am currently not working as efficiently as I could with the trusty Festools. In fact, it seems like I'm chasing my tail quite a bit and working myself to death. My current project involves basically some big melamine cabinets. This is the first time I've been able to work with the material at MFT level since I found the perfect sawhorse at OrangeBorg. Previously, all my cutting was on the floor and I thought that was the reason for the extra workout.

I have two 1400 rails for slicing and dicing, the 48" Sommerfeld T-square, various other smaller squares, along with the semi-trusty Festool angle guide. There's nothing with ultra-high precision in my arsenal yet, but it is accurate enough to let me know when I'm off.

Today, I was taking the rough edges off in anticipation of making two 24"x72" pieces. I started with the short end, then the long edge and checked the alignment five or six times before I made the cut on each. Even though most people wouldn't, I went ahead and used the guide rail clamps just to be sure I didn't screw anything up. Well, as I was preparing the 72" chop, I discovered that the long edge wasn't perfectly square since the line was a bit askew. Sure enough, I checked the newly cut corner with my LED light and saw just enough light (and a tee-iny bit of wiggle) to make the whole damned thing significantly off at 6' out.

So, I recut it and did it perfectly.

It just seems that on any long cut, that it's so damned much work to get it just right. Am I missing something?

Would the best way to have done this would be to make a rough cut at about 73" to lop off the extra material, then make the final cut after the end was done?

How can I do this more efficiently?

Thanks!

 

[Corwin]

If I understand correctly, you are using a T square to align your Guide Rail?  For both cuts?

I would either purchase something like the Stops for the Hole Drilling Kit (and get longer rods) or make a jig to accommodate those long parallel cuts (I like Incra's Incremental Track for this).  These methods seem quicker and more reliable to me than using a square to align these cuts.  I would save the square for the perpendicular stuff.

Hope this helps,
Corwin

 

[Michael Kellough]

I'd make the long cuts first the full length of the stock. Use a third straight edge to ensure the joined guide rails are straight or buy a longer guide rail.

Whatever angular deficiency your layout tools posses will result in your long cut being further off the mark if you reference it (the long cut) from the short end of the piece. If you reference the short end from the long cut it may still be .x degrees out of square but it will be 1/3 as far off as the long cut.

Push the two long pieces together and use you T square from opposite sides to make a common center line across both parts to measure to the ends of the pieces to make marks to align the guide rail and cut the ends of both pieces at once. That will give you more precision require half as many cuts.

If you cut the ends with an .x degree off "square" and both tops are oriented in the same direction on your workstation, when you stand them up to become the cabinet the tops will be off in opposite directions. If your use the off square, at least use it from the face edge of each piece and then the tops will both slope the same direction and won't twist the cabinet.

 

[greg mann]

Michael's advice is right on target. Long cuts first progressing to shorter cuts. One can also overestimate what a teeny bit of light really represents in terms of error. Light comes in pretty small sizes.

 

[LaserGecko]

Well, if that don't just make perfect sense. Thanks so much for pointing me in the right direction, Michael.

I am definitely seeing the value in having either a FS2700 guide rail or another 1400. One thing I noticed about the guide rails. They seemed to fit together better when I changed their order. I guess one of them is ever so slightly tweaked.

The sheet processing went much smoother today. I made the long cut. The bottom didn't really need it, so I cut the sheet to length then set about cutting it into two 23.5" pieces.

I've been thinking about the jigs I've seen on here, then realized that I didn't need to rig something when I have a 48" t-square. I set it to the proper length, then double checked with a tape measure, set it on the edge, and bumped the cutting edge of the guide rail flush to it. I worked my way down the edge and back again to double check.

The cut was "spot on" as they say in the UK.

Super fast, too. I think I will get the 24" version just to make things a little less unweildy.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

JAson,

I recently made my first cuts ever of 4'X8' shop grade plywood from HD for some shop cabinets.  As others recommended, I cut the long pieces first (11 3/4" wide by 96" long).  I, too, now wish I had a much longer guide rail.  For the long cuts, I connected by two 1400mm guide rails  I found connecting and aligning the guide rails took more time than setting the joined rails and actually making the cuts with my TS 55.  I used my 4' level as a straight edge to help ensure the two guide rails were aligned.  A longer straight edge would have been better, and a longer single piece guide rail much better.  I think Jerry Work uses a 6 ft level for this.

To assist in quickly setting the guide rail for consistent, accurate repeat rip cuts, use a pair of adjustable stops.  You can go "fancy" and make those described in Jerry Work's MFS manual, or you could buy a pair of 2 to 3 ft straight edges or rules and make or buy an adjustable stop for each. (I view these as a modern Festool adaptation of an old cabinet maker's use of a story stick.)  Here is a link to those offered by Hartville Toolhttp://www.hartvilletool.com/product/11170.  Here is a link to ruler stops available at Lee Valley. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=53825&cat=1,43513  Incra marking rules are also very precise and convenient to use for measuring and marking with a mechanical pencil.  Here is a link to them athttp://www.hartvilletool.com/product/10840.  Or you could make your own adjustable stops from scraps of wood, sections of T-track, of drywall T-squares, etc. 

Are you making a storage cabinet for your shop?  If so, I am very interested in your project, as I am currently making a pair of wall cabinets to force me to learn how to use many of my Festool products.  The cabinets are to be hung on cleats (because I haven't enough organization skill to know exactly where I want them).  And after those are done (frames are cut, shelf pin holes drilled with LR 32 system), I want to make a large storage cabinet - 8' H x 3' W by 24?" D.  Actual depth will depend on what choices I make for HD draw/tray slides.  Lee Valley has some with serious load capacity. http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=46578&cat=3,43614,43616&ap=1 for 250 lb rated.  They have 400 lb rated slides, too.  My wife is really looking forward to this storage cabinet to put away much of my clutter.

Dave R.

 

[Corwin]

...Incra marking rules are also very precise and convenient to use for measuring and marking with a mechanical pencil.   Here is a link to them athttp://www.hartvilletool.com/product/10840.   Or you could make your own adjustable stops from scraps of wood, sections of T-track, of drywall T-squares, etc. 

Incra's Incremental Track also works great for this kind of setup.  And you can change out the 1/32" racks with the 1mm ones.  Set scales to account for width of Guide Rail and your off to the races.  This works better for those larger panels simply due to their size -- mine are all 52" long, so I use the Stops from the Hole Drilling Kit for narrower stuff.

Corwin

 

[woodshopdemos]

This is a subject that comes up often and it should. I repeat this page on my website because I and my crew get square and parallel cuts all the time. In the website reference, the first page is on square and the 2nd on parallel. We make the cuts on the long side as "parallel" and the crosscuts are squared.
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-sq-1.htm

Andrea poses with just some of the squares we have tried.

 

[woodshopdemos]

... the 48" Sommerfeld T-square....

  With all due respect to  Marc S, there is no way that a 24" or 48" adjustable square will serve you well (like judging squareness) since the other leg is only 3" and there is an adjustable mechanism in between. I would go to Home Depot first and take abut 6 12" speed squares to the plywood section and try each of them out on the mfr's corner of a new piece of 4 X 8" . When you have one that you think is square, turn in over and check again. If square both ways, you  will  have a $15 square that will serve you well.

 

[Dan Clark]

This is a subject that comes up often and it should. I repeat this page on my website because I and my crew get square and parallel cuts all the time. In the website reference, the first page is on square and the 2nd on parallel. We make the cuts on the long side as "parallel" and the crosscuts are squared.
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-sq-1.htm

Andrea poses with just some of the squares we have tried.

John,

Nice page.  I have several of these squares including the Swanson Speed Square and Incra Guaranteed Square.  I replaced the Speed Square with something very similar from Woodpeckers:http://www.woodpeck.com/speedsquare.html.  You use it just like the Swanson version.  I got the 12" version.  It's milled much better than the Swanson, so it's easier to use.

Like you, my favorite is the Incra.  I have both the small and large, but use the large most of the time.  It's a VERY nice tool - great heft and easy to use.

Depending on the size of the workpiece, I use either the Woodpeckers triangle or the large Incra to square the wood against the guide rail for a square cross cut.  It's pretty much brain-dead simple and fast.

Dan.

 

[LaserGecko]

Are you making a storage cabinet for your shop?

Actually, I'm making two of these...with a third (and possibly an entire petstore full) on the way. If that happens, it's Domino time!

[attachthumb=#]

I actually already have the rafter stops, but had completely forgotten about them.  I've read John's website about a million times, but that completely slipped my mind.

I didn't just use the Sommerfeld square. I have an assortment including a decent Swanson that I use. The 48"er ended up being used as an adjustable stop quite a bit.

Upgrading to precise gear has always been in the plan. There's ahttp://www.woodpeck.com/tsquare24.html on the way as we speak, although I should've ordered it when it was on sale. Speaking of sales, the 1281 is on sale this week.

 

[Corwin]

John, Very nice pages on the subject!  How to square the rail to fence, what tools are needed, how to make accurate parallel cuts and such are topics that seem to appear over and over.  Your overview certainly covers these and puts everything in perspective.  Next time these subjects come up, your link should be in the first reply.  Great job!

The Incra Incremental Track I mentioned in my post above is used the same way as you are using your story sticks (rule with stop).  While these Tracks can be a little bulky if way longer than needed, they are very easy to zero out.  And once set, well, you're set.  This track is good for all kinds of stuff too.  Take one you have already set (as above) and use on the MFT -- if mounted with gap between fence and rail simply adjust the stop, or better yet, set a second stop and leave the first.  These Incremental Tracks may not (for some unknown reason) be for everyone, but they have sure made me a fan.

Corwin

 

[woodshopdemos]

The Incra Incremental Track

Corwin,
  Will you give me a URL at Incra's site for the Incremental Track. I have a shop full of Incra stuff and a very good relationship with owner and would like to make what you describe. Do you have a photo of your setup.
  For use with the MFT, I suppose that I could mount a TSIII and use the fence that is on it.  I have an LS one that hasn't been opened yet and since I sold my TS, the MFT would be a great place to install...with the only drawback being the room required for the 52" arm.  I have on the drawing board a storage base that would also give instant wheels and movement. It would help to get the active MFT out into the thoroughfare.
  Is there a laser that could sense range (distance) of such short specs?

 

[Corwin]

Hey John, one other thought on my previous post;  the bit you did on the digital fence awhile back was an excellent description of how to use a square piece of MDF or ply to make narrow rip cuts.  Between these two articles, one should be on the right direction.

Incra's Incremental Track is an item that they should market better, or at least make easier to find on their site.  The 'Track' is under the 'Jigs and Fixture Components' menu.  Another type of Incremental Track uses their Flip-Stops, and can be seen by selecting 'Miter Accessories' under the 'Miter Gauge' menu.

While these Tracks are usually mounted to something, here I use two loose lengths of Tracks for story sticks -- no special jig needed.

As to their other items, I don't see where one would need their table saw setup for the MFT.  I have their 25" LS Positioner and like it for both MFT and router table use.  

Oh, gotta go,
Corwin

 

[jstockman]

If I understand correctly, you are using a T square to align your Guide Rail?  For both cuts?

I would either purchase something like the Stops for the Hole Drilling Kit (and get longer rods) or make a jig to accommodate those long parallel cuts (I like Incra's Incremental Track for this).  These methods seem quicker and more reliable to me than using a square to align these cuts.  I would save the square for the perpendicular stuff.

Hope this helps,
Corwin

I am getting ready to make a story stick for parallel cuts on meamine.  Can anyone explain how to use the incra track for a story stick, two 55 inch rails and the TS55?''

Jim

 

[Corwin]

I am getting ready to make a story stick for parallel cuts on meamine.  Can anyone explain how to use the incra track for a story stick, two 55 inch rails and the TS55?''

Jim

Hey Jim,

Here's an old picture of a jig I made some time ago that uses Incra Track.  While the jig was photographed on top of my MFT, it is meant to be used on your cutting table.  

You can make a one-piece jig like this, or make yours in two pieces.  A two-piece jig may at first seem more accommodating, as it can be use on both shorter or longer rails.  But I find the one-piece jig sized for working with full-sized sheet goods nicer since you can easily handle the jig and rail as one unit.  I think this is a better arrangement in many ways than Festool's new parallel guides, as it lays on top of the material so thinner material doesn't require any shimming.  

To make this jig, start by cutting some MDF or plywood to size.  I use 14mm (5/8") plywood, since it is just a tad thicker than the height of the guide rail.  The edge along the guide rail is just over 4' on mine, but you could elect to make it any size that works for you.  You will want the sides where the Incra Tracks are mounted a little longer than the length of the tracks so you can stand the jig on its end and have it rest on the wood rather than the ends of the Incra Tracks.  I also keep my Tracks 2" back from the guide rail to allow the saw to clear and also to provide room so I don't scrape my hand while sawing.  I've made my jig to use 36" Tracks, so the sides are 39".  You'll notice in the photo that the remaining side is cut away.  This is done to make the jig easier to handle.  This not only reduces the weight, but provides a place for my body as I lift and position the jig onto my workpiece.  You may also notice that I have left the remaining side material a couple inches wider that the Incra Tracks.  This not only provides the additional room for the Incra Track Brackets that I've used to mount the Tracks, but also allows me a place to clamp the jig to the material when needed -- like routing.  What's not shown in the picture is the handles that are placed towards the inside corners, if you will.  Shew!  That was a mouthful.

So now the base of the jig is cut down to size.  Place it on your cutting table with a guide rail in position.  You can now place your router on the base and set the bit depth by hanging the router over the edge so the bit will contact the guide rail.  In the picture, you may notice that I have used a piano hinge to connect the base to the rail -- you could just use some thin stock instead, but that would eliminate one of the neat features of this jig.  Either way, route the edge of the base that is along the rail so that area of the base is even in height with the guide rail and wide enough to accommodate the hinge (or stock).  You're almost ready to attach the parts.  But first, slightly round over the bottom edges of the jig to prevent the jig from gouging your material when you are placing the jig.  And check if you need to enlarge the holes in the piano hinge to accommodate the bolts that will be used to attach the jig to the guide rail's T-track.  Okay, now you can install the parts.

I use the Incra Track Brackets because they allow me to swap out the 36" Tracks for 52" Tracks when needed.  When I install the 52" Track, I also install a 16" scrap to the bottom the of the end of the Track so that it too will have a leg to stand on.  Well, they will.  Since these Brackets allow for lateral adjustment, I can set the Tracks 2" back from the edge using a pair of 1-2-3 blocks.  Really simple.  Once the scales on these Tracks are calibrated to your rail, they can be used on this jig, another jig or even as a fence on a MFT.  Sweet!

As made, my parallel jig will accept different size rails -- like my 1900, 2424LR32, and 3000mm.  Just fold the hinge up, slide the rail onto the nuts, uh, well the T-track hardware, hold the guide rail tight to the jig and tighten in place.  To use, fold the rail back and pick up the jig and place on top of your material, slide forward until the stops (oh, yeah, forgot to set the stops on the Tracks -- I'm sure you wouldn't forget that) make contact and lower the rail.  Now you're ready to go.  It's neat to cut a 24" piece, reset your stops to 26" and clamp that 24" piece to the jig and zip off a bunch of 2" wide strips.  

Oh man, look at the time.  My whole schedule is off!  Guess I'm late to bed to make up for getting up way too early this (well, yesterday) morning.  Catch you all tomorrow.  Or no, that would be later today.  Hmmm.  Too late to proof read now, so I hope I didnt make too many mistakes or omissions.

 

[jstockman]

Corwin,

Thank-you very much for your post.  And thank everyone for their help.

I read the post.  However, the picture did not come through.  Can you attach the picture of your jig again.

Regards,

Jim

 

[Corwin]

Oops, sorry 'bout that.  Fixed the photo.

 

[bruegf]

Actual depth will depend on what choices I make for HD draw/tray slides.  Lee Valley has some with serious load capacity.  http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=46578&cat=3,43614,43616&ap=1 for 250 lb rated.  They have 400 lb rated slides, too. 

Dave R.

Dave,

Take a look at www.cshardware.com.  They have some good prices on some heavy duty slides as well.  I used some of their slides when I built my sysport and have been satisfied with the product.

Fred

 

[rookie08]

Hi Corwin,

I've been looking at that jig of yours for a while and perhaps it's late but I can't figure out how it works.  Any chance you could shoot a short video or a couple of pictures of it in action.  ;D

Thanks!