Starter sander

[Tanker3000]

Hi there, i have tried to do a little search on which sander to buy but not really come up with anything and with such an array to choose from im not sure what would be the best to go for considering i cant buy them all.

Im a joiner by trade and would like to buy something that can sand edges of laminated ply with out destroying the pad but also sand for example oak worktops and occasionally plaster repairs (that parts for fixing the walls in my house  [big grin])

I could possibly stretch two sanders, or one rotex, a possible combo i was considering was the ets 125 or 150/5 and the dts 400

Do you think the above combo would cover most construction tasks and manage in a workshop?

Thanks, Chris.

 

[jonny round boy]

Chris,

The ETS150/3 is my main sander, and I'd heartily recommend it. I've used it for all the tasks you mention (and many more besides) and it's great. If you can stretch to it, the ETC EC 150 is even better, but it's pricey.

I also have a RO90 which doesn't get much use at all, but is handy on occasion for very aggressive work or sanding in corners.

FWIW, I did own a DTS400, but sold it as I didn't really like it much. For flat, open areas, the ETS is far better, and for sanding in corners, the shape of the pad means that you go through paper like there's no tomorrow, as once you've used the one corner that's it. The delta pad for the RO90 means you can at least rotate the paper & use all three corners on each sheet.

Hope that helps,

Jonathan

 

[Holmz]

Hi there, i have tried to do a little search on which sander to buy but not really come up with anything and with such an array to choose from im not sure what would be the best to go for considering i cant buy them all.

Im a joiner by trade and would like to buy something that can sand edges of laminated ply with out destroying the pad but also sand for example oak worktops and occasionally plaster repairs (that parts for fixing the walls in my house  [big grin])

I could possibly stretch two sanders, or one rotex, a possible combo i was considering was the ets 125 or 150/5 and the dts 400

Do you think the above combo would cover most construction tasks and manage in a workshop?

Thanks, Chris.

I am not sure what the attraction is to random orbital, with the RO and the ETS are both examples of.
All of the 'cons' of the sheet sander in this link :
http://www.woodworking-news.com/woodworking-tips/random-vs-sheet-sanders.shtml
are addressed with the Mafell EVA 115 E which is a pad sander that uses screens rather than paper. The screens allows the dust to move to the vacuum with ease.
It can remove material pretty quickly, and with finer screens seems to be very controllable.
I think that the Festool RS 2 E is the nearest to the EVA 115 e, where the RS 2 E uses paper instead of screens that the EVA 115 e uses.

I bought the discontinued DX90, which I got used works well in corners. I like it for what it is. With the other sanders having corner attachments it is questionable as to whether one needs a dedicated corner sander, but I still like it.
And with a sheet sander there is even more question marks about the need for a corner sander, but for somethings it is still useful.

Have you a need for something like a linear sander?
http://www.festool.com.au/ls-130-linear-sander

I could see an RO 90 for doing curvy work, but the EVA 115 e would be hard to beat for flat work.
I have screens from 60 to 320, but after doing about 30 linear meters of baseboards with 1-1/2 screens, I am finding that they seem last a long time.

More: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/advice-on-new-sander/msg392713/#msg392713

 

[leakyroof]

I think ETS 150/3 or /5 plus the DTS400 would be a great starter combo. Yes, the ability to rotate your abrasives on the RO 90 and DX93 is a nice feature, but the DTS400 has a larger pad surface and is easier to keep stable and flat even if you can't move the abrasive sheet around on the DTS.
The ETS150/5 is more aggressive than the /3, but can give a fine finish to a point with higher grits and a careful hand.  It's faster than the /3 for general sanding tasks, which is why it's often the first Festool sander that someone buys when they're just starting out.
I love my DTS400 for both Plaster and Drywall repair. I still keep my RTS400 for the square edges of that sander as sometimes you just need that in a corner or a certain flat line area.

 

[ear3]

I know the oblong pad is a dealbreaker for some on the DTS: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/returned-dts400/
Don't own one myself so I can't say one way or another.

My RO90 is probably my most used sander, and would be the one I would part with last.  The power of the Rotex mode is unbelievable.  The true triangular pad also means you can rotate it when one of the edges is worked through when doing corners.  I just picked up the RTS400 for edge work, and it does the job perfectly.  I know people use their ETS 150 for edges as well since it is so stable, and so you could theoretically have an ETS 150 and RO90 tandem.

 

[avrs22]

Hi there, i have tried to do a little search on which sander to buy but not really come up with anything and with such an array to choose from im not sure what would be the best to go for considering i cant buy them all.

Im a joiner by trade and would like to buy something that can sand edges of laminated ply with out destroying the pad but also sand for example oak worktops and occasionally plaster repairs (that parts for fixing the walls in my house  [big grin])

I could possibly stretch two sanders, or one rotex, a possible combo i was considering was the ets 125 or 150/5 and the dts 400

Do you think the above combo would cover most construction tasks and manage in a workshop?

Thanks, Chris.

I am not sure what the attraction is to random orbital, with the RO and the ETS are both examples of.
All of the 'cons' of the sheet sander in this link :
http://www.woodworking-news.com/woodworking-tips/random-vs-sheet-sanders.shtml
are addressed with the Mafell EVA 115 E which is a pad sander that uses screens rather than paper. The screens allows the dust to move to the vacuum with ease.
It can remove material pretty quickly, and with finer screens seems to be very controllable.
I think that the Festool RS 2 E is the nearest to the EVA 115 e, where the RS 2 E uses paper instead of screens that the EVA 115 e uses.

I bought the discontinued DX90, which I got used works well in corners. I like it for what it is. With the other sanders having corner attachments it is questionable as to whether one needs a dedicated corner sander, but I still like it.
And with a sheet sander there is even more question marks about the need for a corner sander, but for somethings it is still useful.

Have you a need for something like a linear sander?
http://www.festool.com.au/ls-130-linear-sander

I could see an RO 90 for doing curvy work, but the EVA 115 e would be hard to beat for flat work.
I have screens from 60 to 320, but after doing about 30 linear meters of baseboards with 1-1/2 screens, I am finding that they seem last a long time.

More: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/advice-on-new-sander/msg392713/#msg392713

I don't know who the guy that wrote the article in the link: woodworking-news
but his pros and cons of the ros kinda made me laugh.
He must be talking about the disposable sander he has a picture of.
Especially the Cons
• More expensive to buy and operate
you get what you pay for, If you have a festool or a mirka sander it will last you years and years even if you use it everyday.
You cant compare them to the disposable rigid, dewalt, pc, etc ros.

• Sanding disks sometimes hard to find
He must live in the sticks because I can order them or find them at lots of places near here.
The festool and Mirka abernet might be a little harder to find depending where you live but the regular stuff can be found everywhere.

• Not for sanding between coats
Coulda fooled me as I have been doing it for years with great results.

• Aggresive power can ruin a piece in seconds
You can ruin a piece with any hand tools or power tools.

• Hook & Loop on pad can get dirty and fail to hold sanding disk
It depends what brand of sander you use, I have used over 100 boxes of abernet on my Mirka and over 50 boxes of sand paper on both my festool R0 sander and there all still on there stock pad.
Back in the day when I was using dewalt & Rigid sanders the pad never lasted long and the cost of the pad was around 65% of the cost of a new sander.

• Sanding pad can become damaged - affects sanding quality
99.9 % of the time its the vercro that goes, I don't think I ever had a damage pad on any sander except the velcro that let go.

• Circular pads prevent working in corners/tight spaces
Duhh....

You cant compare Festool and Mirka sanders to any of the throw away ros.
The difference is day and night in every way.

 

[Holmz]

More: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/advice-on-new-sander/msg392713/#msg392713

I don't know who the guy that wrote the article in the link: woodworking-news
but his pros and cons of the ros kinda made me laugh.
...
You cant compare Festool and Mirka sanders to any of the throw away ros.
The difference is day and night in every way.
[/quote]

Yeah I don't know him either.
But the prevailing thought seems to be stuck in a lot heads, and that is "Why wouldn't you get a RO sander?"

I do not know how may circular pads I clogged on epoxy before I went with the screens. The EVA 115 is not cheap either, but it is a bar raiser and a joy to use.

 

[avrs22]

I never had the chance to try a Mafell yet....I never even saw one in person.
I read that there good stuff.
I agree on the screens, from 120 grit to 400 grit its Abernet for me. The new abernet ace lasts longer then the regurlar abernet. It has ceramic in it.
But for 100 grit to 40 grit I use festool discs.

 

[TheTrooper]

Here are my thoughts and suggestions. I do stair treads and staircases. I purchased a RO90 as my first festool for stair treads since it was recommended by the book and Dave at festool. I thought WOW I got the best of both worlds a detail, Orbital and rotary sander.  In my case the sander provided and excellent finish but slowed me down tremendously.  For the next staircase I purchased the DTS 400 it quickened my progress but I still wasn't satisfied productive wise. On my 3rd staircase I had to strip down 4 coats of 30 year polyurethane and stain.  For this I purchased the RO150 and the LS 130.  For me I found the perfect combination the RO150 and the DTS 400.  On my next case I will purchase the ETS 150/3 and use that with the DTS 400. I think that is going to be my sweet spot for what I do.
Now going back to the RO90.............. I think it's an excellent sander and it is the only sander that I carry on my truck everyday. If I'm at a job and need to touch up drywall, make a transition or sand a random spot in a baseboard,  door case or something I have an excellent sander with options. If I'm at the shop making a built-in or bookcases or inlays then I use the RO150 and the DTS 400. This is another reason I'm getting the ETS 150/3.
So for what you described I would recommend the ETS 150/3 and DTS 400.  I think the DTS 400 will be produce a flatter and more consistent edge that the RO90.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I am not sure what the attraction is to random orbital, with the RO and the ETS are both examples of.

But the prevailing thought seems to be stuck in a lot heads, and that is "Why wouldn't you get a RO sander?"

I do not know how may circular pads I clogged on epoxy before I went with the screens. The EVA 115 is not cheap either, but it is a bar raiser and a joy to use.

Random orbit sanders are quite a bit faster than orbital sanders. They don't leave swirl marks as quickly as orbitals. And they can do curved surfaces.

The rotary action of the Rotex sanders is even a lot more faster.

The screens sandpaper has nothing to do with the shape of the sander. It's called Abranet and you can get it in many shapes, including round for the random orbit sander. The UVA 115 also takes standard half sheet papers with a 10 hole pattern.

But I don't see why it has to be either this type or that type. Both the random orbit and orbital sanders have their specific strengths.

 

[Holmz]

I never had the chance to try a Mafell yet....I never even saw one in person.
I read that there good stuff.
...

I am not sure they are worth more than another sander, but it is pretty awesome.

I am not sure what the attraction is to random orbital, with the RO and the ETS are both examples of.

But the prevailing thought seems to be stuck in a lot heads, and that is "Why wouldn't you get a RO sander?"

I do not know how may circular pads I clogged on epoxy before I went with the screens. The EVA 115 is not cheap either, but it is a bar raiser and a joy to use.

Random orbit sanders are quite a bit faster than orbital sanders. They don't leave swirl marks as quickly as orbitals. And they can do curved surfaces.

The rotary action of the Rotex sanders is even a lot more faster.

The screens sandpaper has nothing to do with the shape of the sander. It's called Abranet and you can get it in many shapes, including round for the random orbit sander. The UVA 115 also takes standard half sheet papers with a 10 hole pattern.

But I don't see why it has to be either this type or that type. Both the random orbit and orbital sanders have their specific strengths.

Yeah [member=5277]Alex[/member] - I think we are in agreement.
So it looks like the RO and ETS etc are a bit different.

Having 2 ROs might make more sense than 2 orbital sheet sanders, but one of each also makes sense.
And I am not sure if there is a great reason to have 2 circular sanders?

I have a circular, the EVA in rectangular and the DX90 with the triangles.
(All I need is psychedelic colours)

If the OP is doing stairs is it worthwhile considering rectangular or triangular sander or do the circles do it all?
As I haven't done stairs I guess I should defer to [member=47595]TheTrooper[/member] - but interested in the topic.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Having 2 ROs might make more sense than 2 orbital sheet sanders, but one of each also makes sense.
And I am not sure if there is a great reason to have 2 circular sanders?

I have 4 ROs, 1 rotary and 3 orbitals. I do a lot of painting and sanding and like to have the best sander for a specific task so I can work most efficiently.

If the OP is doing stairs is it worthwhile considering rectangular or triangular sander or do the circles do it all?
As I haven't done stairs I guess I should defer to [member=47595]TheTrooper[/member] - but interested in the topic.

For stairs a triangular sander is a must. Many corners on stairs. For me it's always a combination of the RO90 and DTS400 who do that. And of course the RO150 to do the steps. Stairs are often painted with a thick layer and also worn out due to the walking, so I want the power of the big Rotex to do that part quickly.

 

[TheTrooper]

There's no 1 sander for everything. Unless festool comes out with a delta attachment for the ro150 then it will be super close to perfect.
Usually when I do treads I have a guy go before me with the dts 400 and I follow with the ro150. He hits the back where the riser is and the sides, then I do the big area and over lap, then he comes behind me with the next grit and so on. I found it to work best for me that way.  Like I said earlier the ETS 150/3 will be my next addition and will be my ideal set up

 

[avrs22]

90% of my work is staircase finishing and refinishing, I would say that 65% of the time I'm sanding wood.
If I have to strip the staircase I use the ro 90, ro 125 and my random orbital sander.
I couldn't imagine doing the job without one of those sanders.

New Pre finish staircase at the shop, All I need is my random orbital sander for this.
It will sand all the bare wood. rails, treads, newel posts, etc. I use it to sand between the coats too.

New staircase already built on site I only use  my random orbital sander. I also use some sanding blocks to get in the corners.

I'm not sure if the op is building staircases, finishing or refinishing them but most staircase builders I know only use there cheap dewalt random orbital sander and sometimes a belt sander. I would rather they wouldn't sand nothing and leave the sanding to me.

I'm thinking of getting a dts 400 or a rts 400 I think it would help in some area.
Since they both look like the same sander I wish they had made them so you could swap the square pad and the triangle pad instead of having to buy both sanders.

 

[TheTrooper]

I wish they where interchangeable.  The DTS 400 works great for edges and corners. Some people say that the tip wears out and you can't flip the paper but.  I use the rounded edge of it for wall edges and the tip for corners. I can get 3 staircases per pad and I do include a new pad in the pricing for every staircase. It's consumables just like sandpaper.

 

[avrs22]

I wish they where interchangeable.  The DTS 400 works great for edges and corners. Some people say that the tip wears out and you can't flip the paper but.  I use the rounded edge of it for wall edges and the tip for corners. I can get 3 staircases per pad and I do include a new pad in the pricing for every staircase. It's consumables just like sandpaper.

Same as the tip of the delta pad on the ro90. it took me a little while to learn to take it easy on the tip to not burn it. Now it will last a lot longer.
The DTS 400 is still pretty expensive for a little sander, It will cost around $450 delivered + 2  extra pad $80 + around $100 in sand paper. comes to about $630.
After I get passed the shock of the price and use it a few times I forget about it and I am happy I bought it.
If it will make my job easier and faster then its worth it for me.

 

[TheTrooper]

[eek] glad I don't live in Canada. It's like $265-285 here.

 

[AlexThePalex]

If possible, try to find a used DS400 or RS400. With those sanders you can swap pads. I have a DS400 with an extra RS pad. Here it is fairly easy to find a used DS or RS, and order new parts if they need them, so you basically can build a new sander.

When they updated these sanders to the current DTS400 and RTS400 they removed the possibility to swap pads on purpose. [mad]

 

[avrs22]

If possible, try to find a used DS400 or RS400. With those sanders you can swap pads. I have a DS400 with an extra RS pad. Here it is fairly easy to find a used DS or RS, and order new parts if they need them, so you basically can build a new sander.

When they updated these sanders to the current DTS400 and RTS400 they removed the possibility to swap pads on purpose. [mad]

I never saw a festool around here and I have been in construction for over 20 years.
I think I'm the only one around here that has festools.
Either that or they dont bring them to job sites.
All I see is the yellow Dewalts and Bosh.
Il eventually get both sanders one day.
One day on a job the trim guy came to me and asked me if I took his Dewalt sander?
I laughed and said: why would I take that thing?
Well...he dont like me anymore.