Stereo Cabinet

[Joelm]

My wife had been bugging me for some cabinets in our living room since we moved to our house (about 4 years ago). We'd been using 2 leftover nightstands on either side of the couch the previous owners left us. Definitely not ideal.

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Last year my mom gave me my grandfathers old Thorens TD 145 turntable as no one else in the family wanted to use it. I decided it should live up in the living room and be a part of a 2 channel stereo system. I originally was going to try and build a stereo console but quickly was talked out of it by HIFI enthusiasts. So instead I bought a new integrated amp, speakers and subwoofer and got to work.

The constraints I was working with were it had to fit on either side of the couch and still let the shutters close.

We chose to match the sideboard on the other side of the living room I made 2 years ago but match the blue of the KEF speakers.

Today I went to Lee Valley and bought the last of the drawer pulls and knobs. After 3 months of work it is finally finished!

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[onocoffee]

Looks great. What were the reasons the hi-fi guys were against consoles? I've been hearing they're making a comeback.

 

[Packard]

You don’t use the shutters, and in my opinion, they make the walls look cluttered.

Once gone, you could add art or bookshelves.

The stereo cabinet looks very nice, but to me the shutters detract.  Of course if you remove the shutters, you will probably have to paint the room—so, a lot more work.

 

[johnmpf]

Putting the speakers in a cabinet takes away the ability to place the speakers in the room to get the best response.  Speaker placement is surprisingly important.  I had a lot of trouble getting the base response I wanted.  In the end, I ended up moving both speakers six inches closer to the back wall and got much stronger bass.

 

[Joelm]

Looks great. What were the reasons the hi-fi guys were against consoles? I've been hearing they're making a comeback.

Thanks. It wasn't totally that they were against it. Going built in might have been OK if I had experience building speakers already but there is definitely a science to making them sound good (volume of speaker, crossovers, port size). I could have gone down that rabbit hole but was afraid I would never get the cabinets built.

I had made a build thread on an AV forum where I asked lots of questions and got a lot of different answers. Bottom line was the KEF LS50 metas sound great which meant I was starting from a good spot sound wise.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/help-with-stereo-console.3300746/#replies

 

[Joelm]

Putting the speakers in a cabinet takes away the ability to place the speakers in the room to get the best response.  Speaker placement is surprisingly important.  I had a lot of trouble getting the base response I wanted.  In the end, I ended up moving both speakers six inches closer to the back wall and got much stronger bass.

I was worried about that as well. I found even on shelves the KEF speakers were not hitting those deep notes.
I ended buying the KEF KC62 subwoofer and once integrated it really helped make the system sound great.
I know most people with 2 channel listen setups have a MLP that they work off of but in our case the house is open concept and we are either in the living room, dinning room or kitchen while listening to music.

 

[DynaGlide]

Why can't the shutters stay closed, louvers open? Or do they not move? That would be my next move. If your sills are deep enough you can build or buy shutters that are inset into the window opening.

 

[Joelm]

You don’t use the shutters, and in my opinion, they make the walls look cluttered.

Once gone, you could add art or bookshelves.

The stereo cabinet looks very nice, but to me the shutters detract.  Of course if you remove the shutters, you will probably have to paint the room—so, a lot more work.

Hi Packard
The whole main floor is open concept and every window has shutters. So about 16 shutters altogether.  It is something we will just live with and do use them sometimes.

I agree about the art on the walls. Both my wife and I are professional artists. Most of our house has our artwork up. On the first photo I posted you can see 3 of my drawings up on the wall. The reason you don't see them in the image with the cabinets is we decided to make the wall an accent wall that will frame the artwork better. Unfortunately we discovered a large drywall seam that needs fixing first. We never noticed until the art was off of the wall.

Here is a photo of what we are planning. I just used painters tape for the layout.

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[Joelm]

Why can't the shutters stay closed, louvers open? Or do they not move? That would be my next move. If your sills are deep enough you can build or buy shutters that are inset into the window opening.

The house would be too dark if we kept the shutters closed. We do that on the opposite side of the house so we don't have to look at our heat pump. I did make sure that they can be closed though. So that's why there is the odd shaped shelf on top. I left maybe 3mm clearance so that the shutters can close. On the right side I flipped the design and thought the turntable would fit perfectly on the lower shelf where we do not have that lower shutter.

 

[Cheese]

Nice job... [big grin]...the cabinets sure do tidy up the room a lot. I like the color.

It's great that you have the original dust cover for the 145, finding one is always a chore.

Also nice to see that Rotel gear is still made. It was always nice sounding gear that was also nicely constructed but at a reasonable price.

 

[jeh]

Looks great. What were the reasons the hi-fi guys were against consoles? I've been hearing they're making a comeback.

Where appearance counts, the console is an excellent solution that I will believe works for 90% of music listeners (and possibly more). A mid-range hifi setup can easily push $20K and that is when you can hear the difference. Next level is $50K and then $100K. If you have never listened to systems in this range take a trip to a true high-end shop in major metropolitan area. Hi-end stereo makes tools look like walking around cash. I was in the game for about 10 years, but finally got out to cut the money spigot off. It is a constant upgrade cycle moving to the next level and yes you can hear the difference.

That said the most important part of the music is enjoying it.

 

[Cheese]

Well, now that I've become a grandfather, based on my purchasing a new Thorens TD125 Mk II around the mid-70's...I've often wondered what the JBL Paragon sounded like. At the time, it was the best of the best console speaker units offered. It was almost 9' long and weighed in at over 850#. It was produced from 1957 to 1983 and the initial purchase price was $1830 in 1957...equivalent to around $20,500 now. These things are still trading hands in the $20,000+ range. I'm just genuinely curious as to how these consoles sound given the many audio advances over the years.

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So, thinking about this console thing a little bit more, speaker consoles were introduced when the average house size was around 1500 sq ft. The individual rooms were small and everything was simply, many, small individual rooms closed off from one another. With the relatively recent acceptance of the open concept house, I wonder how this large console system would sound throughout the living quarters. It certainly has enough power and I love the radiused sound board that would broadcast the sound to a very large area.

So, maybe those experts that nay-sayed the console arrangement...aren't quite the experts they espouse themselves to be.  [big grin]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

It's definitely cool looking, no matter how it sounds.

$1830 in 1957 would have been eye-watering  [eek]

 

[derekcohen]

My wife had been bugging me for some cabinets in our living room since we moved to our house (about 4 years ago). We'd been using 2 leftover nightstands on either side of the couch the previous owners left us. Definitely not ideal.

View attachment 1

Last year my mom gave me my grandfathers old Thorens TD 145 turntable as no one else in the family wanted to use it. I decided it should live up in the living room and be a part of a 2 channel stereo system. I originally was going to try and build a stereo console but quickly was talked out of it by HIFI enthusiasts. So instead I bought a new integrated amp, speakers and subwoofer and got to work.

The constraints I was working with were it had to fit on either side of the couch and still let the shutters close.

We chose to match the sideboard on the other side of the living room I made 2 years ago but match the blue of the KEF speakers.

Today I went to Lee Valley and bought the last of the drawer pulls and knobs. After 3 months of work it is finally finished!

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Hi Joelm

I have a system somewhat similar and went through a upgrading process a few years ago. My experience may help you and others.



The equipment sits on a pair of military chests (campaign) I built 14 years ago, and then more recently added a console for the hifi. These are all solid Jarrah and sit on a wooden Jarrah floor (itself on concrete).

A big issue with hifi equipment is protecting it against vibrations, since these act to muddy the sound. It is not only via the phono cartridge, but also a CD or DVD, and even the electrical connections in an amplifier or streamer. The console has shelves which "float" (they are not fixed). The turntable rests on an isolation sub-table.

This is an older photo ...



There is a build for the turntable as well. Both this and the military chest builds can be found by scrolling dow this index page on my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

The turntable is a Thorens TD 150, which I have had for 40 years, and completed a complete overhaul with many mods to dampen vibrations (heavy plinth, internal soundproofing, acrylic armboard), modified the Rega RB300 arm, and it runs a Supex cartridge.





The amplifier is a (French-made) Devialet.

Both the sub-table and the amplifier rest on sound isolation feet (IsaAcoustic IsoPucks) ...



Even the sub-table has a floating acrylic surface ...



You will note that I also have Kef LS50 Meta speakers. There is the matching subwoofer in the corner (I built that chair as well) ...



Placement of speakers is very important. These Kefs are not best suited to being housed in a cabinet, although they can be if you use the foam plugs in the rear ports. Ideally they are placed about 1m from boundaries and without any toe-in (that is, facing straight down the room).

The Kef LS50 are referred to as "near field" speakers. This means that they are best suited to smaller areas and, if listening in a larger space (as I have), the ideal seating is about 3m away (with the speakers no more than 5m apart). You are breaking all these rules, but it does come down to what you want from the system - hifi or background music.



I have tried to minimise the technology here. Even the cables are tucked away (and for that matter, they are all specialist cables: the interconnects and speaker cables do make a significant difference to the detail extracted from the source).

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[onocoffee]

[member=4358]derekcohen[/member] Wow. Looks fantastic. And that chair. But I am curious - since you noted that the best seating position is no more than 3m away (with a 5m spread between the monitors), do you reconfigure your seating when you want to listen in the most optimal conditions?

 

[derekcohen]

For serious listening, I position the chair in the centre of the speakers and about 3m back. For casual listening, there is no special seating positioning.

For reference, the streamer is a Cambridge Audio CXN v2, streaming max files from Tidal. It also houses a 1Tb SSD containing 24-bit / 96 and 192KHz.FLAC files. CD's are played on an OPPO blu-ray. I have a great many vinyl albums collected since the 60s. They remain my favourite medium. Digital is excellent but for convenience.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Joelm]

Derek that is some awesome setup you have. Redoing the body of your old Thorens is totally next level. I bet it sounds amazing!

When I made my first post the site was acting very funky so I just wanted to get it up. I feel like I could explain things a bit more now so people can understand the compromises and why some decisions were made.

First of all the Thorens I inherited. My grandfather was a musician in the Canadian military and traveled the world playing. He was extremely excited to hear we had moved to Seattle years ago. He would tell us how he played the Canadian Tattoo for the worlds fair in Seattle in 62. So after I got his Thorens, my wife surprised me for my birthday by finding an original pressing of the Canadian Tattoo from the world's fair in Seattle. The first record I got to play on my grandfathers turntable was of him performing. It was a really special moment.

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He loved music (especially opera) and had an incredible home theater/listening room in the 80's. My uncle told me he only ever played a vinyl once, so he could transfer it to reel to reel. So the turntable was in pristine condition with an upgraded Shure V15 lll phono cartridge from my grandfather. I've had it checked out at a local repair shop and other than new RCA plugs it runs great so I'll be keeping it as is. I did just get an isolation platform in the mail yesterday. It should dampen any vibrations from the cabinet and floor. The speakers do not touch the cabinet, they sit on 4 sorbothane pads I bought from Hudson HiFi. I have a few iso pucks for my home theater that I may try out on the amplifier if I notice any distortion.
https://www.fluance.com/ib40-turntable-isolation-base-black

One factor that I had not mentioned and only learned of recently on HiFi forums is WAF

1- She really liked the sideboard I built and wanted something similar for the living room, which is directly across from the dining area.
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2- Last year I built a 5.1.4 home theater in the basement and she did not want to see any floorstanding or bookshelf speakers on stands in the living room. I did buy some acoustic fabric that matches the blue we chose. This was going to cover the speakers so you wouldn't even see them. Fortunately the KEF LS50's come in the blue and champagne that she loved. So I have a yard of unused blue acoustic fabric.

3- The shutters have to be able to close. When we go on vacation or during severe weather we do shut them so the cabinets could not be any taller.

One of the reasons I went with the LS50's is the KEF uni-q drivers. The tweeter is in the middle of the woofer which means it measures well off axis. It also meant I could place the KEF on it's side and it would still sound the same as upright.

Normally you would not want to place a bookshelf speaker in a cabinet. Since I bought the speakers first, I designed the cabinet around the speaker. They fit snug in their shelf and I left the back open so it did not distort the bass frequencies. Going from on top of the shelf to inside the cabinet I do not notice any difference in sound so I'm happy I kept the back open. The drivers are in line with the front of the cabinet so the sound does not reflect off of the side walls of the cabinet. I also keep the cabinet about 8" from the wall which means the drivers are just under 3' off the back wall. Not exactly 4' but it helps a lot. When in place our speakers are 4 meters apart and the MLP is 2.5 meters from the wall. The sound is not the same as a dedicated listening room but still sounds quite good to us.

The biggest difference in sound came when we added the subwoofer. I originally meant to keep it in the compartment bellow the speaker but the KC62 does get hot and I did not want to over heat it. It sits behind a lazyboy we keep for when my dad visits us.

Another thing I wanted to mention was ventilation. I really did not want my integrated amp to overheat. So I made sure the cabinet had lots of ventilation slots. I then added a AV cabinet fan with a heat probe. If the amplifier reaches a certain temperature, the fans will start up and push hot air out of the cabinet's sidewall. I keep the power cords and interconnects separated with different holes in the back of the cabinet. The long horizontal slot is for all the speaker wires and interconnects to pass through. The larger hole on the left is for power to the CD player and integrated amp. The shelf for the cd player and integrated amp is on full extension drawer slides for easier access.

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[Packard]

Not long ago I tried out using woven cane as door panels.  The results were satisfactory and I enjoy the process (and I like the look).

If I were hiding speakers in cabinets, I think I would use the cane panels.

Getting the cane tight as a drum is easier than it looks.  I install it soaking wet and it shrinks as it dries. 

Note:  I added cabinet pulls after this photo was taken.

 

[Cheese]

Thanks for the further details on your cabinets...there's a lot of extra detail that isn't obvious from the outside. Nice job.  [smile]

The Shure V15 Series III and Series IV cartridges are still really popular and sought after...wish I hadn't replaced mine.  [sad]

That snippet about recording the vinyl record on tape and then saving the vinyl as a one-use master...that was indeed the real deal at the time. However, in reality it really didn't work that well because if you weren't taping the vinyl on a Revox, Crown, Otari or on a professional Ampex or Tascam machine, well the recording just wasn't as good as the vinyl and after a few plays, you'd just cue up the vinyl record instead...so much for the one-play use idea.  [sad]

Remember, the folks doing this stuff were serious critical listeners and not background music people. So after a couple of disappointing plays of the tape...it was back to vinyl.

 

[Vtshopdog]

Thanks for the further details on your cabinets...there's a lot of extra detail that isn't obvious from the outside. Nice job.  [smile]

The Shure V15 Series III and Series IV cartridges are still really popular and sought after...wish I hadn't replaced mine.  [sad]

I still run V15 type III with a Jico SAS stylus.  The Jico was a godsend for some of my older vinyl - it's got a narrower profile that rides deeper in the LP grooves and bypasses wear and scratches nearer the surface.  Huge improvement.
https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/vn35he-sas-s/

Beautiful work Joelm!