Strpping and repairing Baltic Birch with sprayed lacquer finish

[ear3]

There was a fire in the building adjacent to the gallery where I did the art installation a few months back (if you live in the area, you can go see the burnt out building on 17th street b/w 7th and 8th, which is closed off to car traffic).  There was no actual fire damage to the art installation, but there was a lot of water damage due to a combination of sprinklers and the firehouses to combat this five alarm fire.  So I've been brought back by the gallery to help repair some of the damage.  In addition, since insurance will be paying for it, the gallery is throwing in a bunch of additional work, and have asked if I'm interested.

One thing they inquired about was a set of long tables, constructed out of Baltic Birch, whose tops are starting to lose their sprayed white lacquer finish.  The question is whether they can all be stripped and recoated with a clear oil finish.

So I have two questions, as I've never stripped a lacquer finish from such a large surface area:

1) Is it a real chore to strip approximately 100 square feet of table top with the Rotex 150?  And will there be problems -- given I'll have to start with an aggressive paper like a 40 grit -- with dishing and putting the surface out of level?

2) What are some options I could use to fill/build up some of the edges which have broken (an example of which is pictured below), keeping in mind that the new finish will be a clear coat?  Would it be worth it instead just to cut the edge back 1/16" with the tracksaw -- which I could do, since the table is plywood -- and start with a fresh edge?

Thanks for any suggestions.

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[Stoli]

Have you priced out how much it would cost to simply replace the tops compared to you time stripping and refinishing?

 

[ear3]

Unfortunately, the the table top is glued tight to a second panel underneath that has a large bevel/curvarture that would require some rather expensive machinery to produce, which would be beyond my capabilities.  I have a piece from one of the tables that I'm going to run a stripping test on to see how it goes, and depending upon my experience, as well as advice on the FOG, I may ultimately present refabrication as another option, though it would not be done by me. 

Have you priced out how much it would cost to simply replace the tops compared to you time stripping and refinishing?

 

[semenza]

Are these display tables? Would it matter if they were 3/4" - 1" taller?

How about putting a new top over  the old?

Seth

 

[G3Trim]

I would definitely just trim off the 1/16" on the edge's. It will save time and you won't have any filler which we all know will show up like a sore thumb in a clear finish. As far as sanding I wouldn't use such a course grit, you could go through that veneer in a heart beat with a rotex. I would try 80 grit to start. you might also look into a chemical stripper to start then finish with one of the ets sanders. Hope this helps good luck, let us know how it goes.

 

[Locks14]

A third option in addition to re-topping or trimming as mentioned above, would be to simply chamfer the edge to get rid of the offending damage as pictured.

 

[AlexThePalex]

No grit 40 on such tables! You'll leave horrible scratches. 80 is better, maybe 60 if it doesn't go fast enough. But 80 should do just fine with the Rotex and not be too hard. Expect to go through quite some discs though.

 

[tiralie]

1) Is it a real chore to strip approximately 100 square feet of table top with the Rotex 150?  And will there be problems -- given I'll have to start with an aggressive paper like a 40 grit -- with dishing and putting the surface out of level?

I would use a chemical stripper to get the majority of it off, and then clean up with a 120-150 grit on the Rotex. If there is any lacquer that has penetrated below the birch veneer, it will be difficult not to burn through the veneer with any sander.

2) What are some options I could use to fill/build up some of the edges which have broken (an example of which is pictured below), keeping in mind that the new finish will be a clear coat? 

Colored epoxy putty and some Mohawk grain brushes will fill it and make it almost invisible to anyone who doesn't know where to look. The epoxy putty holds up really well on corners.

Would it be worth it instead just to cut the edge back 1/16" with the tracksaw -- which I could do, since the table is plywood -- and start with a fresh edge?

Cutting it back would be the easiest. You could get some birch veneer or cut some off some birch plywood you have and patch it to match. It's not the easiest way to repair but looks good when done properly and really improves your hand tool skills.

 

[rvieceli]

I'm with Seth... I vote for just slip covering them. Half inch or three quarter Baltic birch over the old tops. Put some solid edge banding to cover the edges finish and call it a day. You could use screws from the underside as well as glue.

The problem with stripping and going back with a clear finish is that it may be problematic to get all the finish off without burning through a veneer layer. You could use the track saw to cut back the edges to allow the solid wood edge on the new top to slide over the old and keep the same width. the solid wood would also help protect the edges from the type of damage you are seeing now.

 

[rizzoa13]

Does the veneer really matter if it's getting sprayed? As long as you kept it flat it wouldn't even matter if you went all the way through the veneer, right?

 

[bkharman]

Does the veneer really matter if it's getting sprayed? As long as you kept it flat it wouldn't even matter if you went all the way through the veneer, right?

I think if the spray permeates the veneer, the adhesive on the back could get compromised. Don't quote me as I am not a veneer expert but I think I saw a video from Paul @ Fastcap about that.

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[mastercabman]

Another option would be to laminate the top
There are some nice looking wood looking laminate that might be better than finding out what's under that paint.

 

[Bohdan]

Another option would be to laminate the top
There are some nice looking wood looking laminate that might be better than finding out what's under that paint.

Totally agree, you could also use thin ply and laminate it on with contact adhesive. That way it is still wooden and if you trim the edges with solid edging it will disappear.

 

[ear3]

Thanks for all the replies.  As suggested, I'm going to go with the lamination option -- by putting new sheets of 1/2" laminated apple plywood Colorfin over the top.  This is going to get expensive given the size of the tables (20' x 5 1/2'), but hey, insurance is paying.  The advantage of the apple ply is that it won't require edge banding or finishing, since the exposed edges have a good aesthetic.

So I was wondering if I could lay out what I'm thinking as far as the process goes and see if it makes sense.

Here's what the table looks like:

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Fortunately they want to get rid of that middle depression/opening, so it will be simply covered over with the new top with no need to rout it out.  Here is the underside:

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When I first looked at the finish, I thought it was a laminate/solid surface top, since the finish was still intact and glossy in the center.  But if you go to the pieces placed on both ends, the cracking reveals that it's just some sort of spray lacquer finish:

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I'm just curious if anyone knows why there would be such differences in the deterioration of the finish between the different parts of the table?  It's strange how only the ends of the table are like that, and not the panels in the center.

So the first question is how to trim the existing edges of the table to get rid of the existing white finish and to remove some of the chipping/flaking.  The straight edges I can obviously do with a tracksaw by knocking off 1/16" on either side.  But what about the rounded corners?  Here's what I was thinking:

1) Stick a scrap plywood panel on top and rout it flush with a bottom bearing to match the existing edge profile

2) Move that piece of scrap -- which now has the exact profile of the table end -- back 1/16" or 1/8", and rout flush now with a top bearing to take off the existing edge of the table.  I will have to use a sander to smooth the transition from the curve to the long straight edge, since I will have lost 1/16" on either side from the tracksaw trimming operation, but I don't foresee this being a big deal.

3) Once all the edges are trimmed I will then apply the apple plywood Colorfin and rout the edges flush to the freshly trimmed table top underneath.

I will have to get the solid surface/laminate blade for the TS75 (495382) to cut the laminate-topped apple plywood, but I was wondering what would be the best router bit to flush trim this material -- one that won't chip the laminate top or dull from cutting this material?  Is something like the whiteside ultimate flush trim bit appropriate?  http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/whiteside-ultimate-trim-bit.aspx

The advantage of this bit is that I could also use it for doing the profile on the rounded edges, since it has both a top and  bottom bearing.  Or should I get some sort of bearing guided spiral bit?


EDIT: I'm posting the above section in a different thread.

Thanks for any suggestions.

BTW, here's what the building next door now looks like after the fire.  This is the view from the window in the building I'm working in -- you can see by it's proximity why the Fire Dept. decided to use its offices as a staging ground to fight the fire.  Rumor is that the owner/developer of the burned out building is not necessarily displeased with the results of the fire, as he had expansion plans to make the building taller -- a lot taller than the existing structure of the now destroyed building could have handled.  So obviously there is speculation about the cause of the fire...

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[Bohdan]

1) Stick a scrap plywood panel on top and rout it flush with a bottom bearing to match the existing edge profile

2) Move that piece of scrap -- which now has the exact profile of the table end -- back 1/16" or 1/8", and rout flush now with a top bearing to take off the existing edge of the table.

This won't work as the radius of the curve needs to be altered. You need to attach a piece of scrap and copy the curve with a router cutter that has a smaller bearing than the cut diameter. You can get different sized bearings to suit. If the bearing is an 1/8" smaller than the cutter diameter you will get a template that is perfect to remove 1/16".

Then use a flush router cutter to trim the table. Do that first and then set the rail to trim off the straight bits. Sand the curve where the straight bits join the curve and fit the new top, flush trim and you're done.

 

[ear3]

I see.  Got it, thanks.

1) Stick a scrap plywood panel on top and rout it flush with a bottom bearing to match the existing edge profile

2) Move that piece of scrap -- which now has the exact profile of the table end -- back 1/16" or 1/8", and rout flush now with a top bearing to take off the existing edge of the table.

This won't work as the radius of the curve needs to be altered. You need to attach a piece of scrap and copy the curve with a router cutter that has a smaller bearing than the cut diameter. You can get different sized bearings to suit. If the bearing is an 1/8" smaller than the cutter diameter you will get a template that is perfect to remove 1/16".

Then use a flush router cutter to trim the table. Do that first and then set the rail to trim off the straight bits. Sand the curve where the straight bits join the curve and fit the new top, flush trim and you're done.

 

[mo siopa]

"I'm just curious if anyone knows why there would be such differences in the deterioration of the finish between the different parts of the table?  It's strange how only the ends of the table are like that, and not the panels in the center."

The pictures aren't clear enough to tell for sure, but in the one where you show the seam between two panels, it looks like one has a brown glue-line. That would indicate a phenolic resin (highly water resistant) as opposed to the typical UF resin.  That could be the difference.

 

[Bob Wolfe]

Because that is where the moisture got in, a thinner finish on the edges and/or perhaps thinner finish in parts of the top or a different grain in the veneer underneath that allowed it to take in moisture.

BW