Suggestions for hybrid workbench

[Jlt3b]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to woodworking and to FOG. I'd appreciate some thoughts/ideas. I didn't think it would be feasible/possible for me to get started with power tools for a while (due to sawdust in garage, family with asthma, etc), so i've been planning to get started in the hobby with hand tools (hand planes, hand saws, chisels, etc).  I had been thinking of building a hand tool workbench for use in my garage and was considering either building this Rob Cosman bench (https://robcosman.com/collections/workbenches/products/plans-the-cosman-workbench) or one of Rex Krueger's workbenches (https://www.rexkrueger.com/).  However, much to my absolute surprise, my family surprised me with a Festool track saw, Festool router (OF 1400), and Festool dust extractor.  So now i'm envisioning doing hybrid woodworking - using these Festool tools AND some hand tools. The MFT tables and rails/guides look amazing and would really help me at the beginning with straight/square cuts and off so many ways to hold/secure pieces, but it doesn't look adequate for hand planing, etc.  Can anyone point me to a hybrid workbench that a novice could build that has a similar MFT type layout (with precision dogholes, etc) but also is heavy enough and can have a vice/tail vice for holding/securing wood?  Feel free to share any other thoughts you might have. Thanks!

 

[peter halle]

Welcome the the FOG! and congratulations on some great presents.  There are tons of ideas here as well as experienced users of both hand tools and power tools.  Others can give better advice than I because I've stayed in my MFT mode and don't have the space for a dedicated workbench but others do.  I am going to anticipate that you will be asked questions including:  Do you anticipate more power tool or more hand tool work?, and How tall are you?  Both of those will come into the equation.

I hope you get some great advice!

Peter

 

[festal]

Here is one option:https://thewoodwhispererguild.com/product/the-hybrid-workbench/
Marc has a video course that you can buy and build it.  Its actually on my todo list but didn't get to it yet

another option that I'm thinking about is:https://www.3x3custom.com/store/combination-workbench
This one also has a little assembly area on it. and you can also add this for your crosscuts:https://www.3x3custom.com/tutorials/portable-mft-workbench

You can also check your local craigslist or marketplace and see whats avaiable.  Maybe sjobergs or something else

 

[luvmytoolz]

I would add for a first workbench for someone new to woodworking, an MFT style is immensely useful, but I really wouldn't agonise over getting the hole pattern perfect. I suspect just having a fairly solid and basic bench with functional holes to fit dogs and clamps regardless of the accuracy of the grid will cover 95%-99% of most use cases.

The extra cost and effort of chasing a perfect grid array of holes just isn't worth it for most cases I've found over the years. In fact I stopped using the track guide and rail pretty early on, as I like to mark and measure with a large square instead.

 

[waho6o9]

Welcome to the FOG and congrats on your Festools!

Here's one idea for you.  Sorry I can't give proper credit to the FOG member.

View attachment 1

Alternatively, as suggested, purchase a MFT top and make your own. It would be a good project for you and build
your skill set. 

All the Best

 

[jeffinsgf]

Here's an article on one I built a few years ago. It's shown and designed as an outfeed table for a table saw, but that function is secondary to its function as a workbench. I can absolutely confirm that once leveled and tied together, it ain't movin'. As a track saw table, its height as an outfeed table is pretty much appropriate. As a workbench, I would like it a little taller, but I'm old and don't bend like I used to...adjust to your height and comfort. The Systainer storage makes very effective use of the space and adds ballast that you need anyway. The tray design I came up with works with all three generations of Systainer...not much of a thing for someone just getting started, but if you ever buy any used Systainers/tools, you know they'll work.
https://www.woodpeck.com/blog/all-in-one-outfeed--assembly-table.html

 

[Michael Kellough]

Here's an article on one I built a few years ago. It's shown and designed as an outfeed table for a table saw, but that function is secondary to its function as a workbench. I can absolutely confirm that once leveled and tied together, it ain't movin'. As a track saw table, its height as an outfeed table is pretty much appropriate. As a workbench, I would like it a little taller, but I'm old and don't bend like I used to...adjust to your height and comfort. The Systainer storage makes very effective use of the space and adds ballast that you need anyway. The tray design I came up with works with all three generations of Systainer...not much of a thing for someone just getting started, but if you ever buy any used Systainers/tools, you know they'll work.
https://www.woodpeck.com/blog/all-in-one-outfeed--assembly-table.html

Nice design and write up Jeff!

One comment, you said,

“One of my favorite features is that the sub-top catches hardware that falls through the holes, unlike my Festool MFT where it always hits the floor and rolls to the closest pile of sawdust.”

You must have lazy hardware, mine always rolls to the farthest dust pile.  [big grin]

 

[tsmi243]

but it doesn't look adequate for hand planing, etc. 

......

but also is heavy enough and can have a vice/tail vice for holding/securing wood? 

Really man, don't sweat this too much.  I can plane a board on my kitchen table, and it doesn't have 4" legs.  The "donkey work" of 100yrs ago isn't really what you're wanting to do, is it?

Just make something cheap, and fast, so you can get going.  Your 1st one isn't going to be a masterpiece, if you're just getting started.  Worry about the details on Bench #2.  Or #3.  Even the temporary rig you make while building your 1st bench might surprise you. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I would agree with [member=51752]tsmi243[/member] especially initially. A flat surface, of appropriate height, is what you need most....and first. Even if you do build up to something over a period of time, you will then have the experience to know your more specific needs.
The traditional, super thick, hardwood workbench is way overkill for many woodworkers.
As a pro, in a large cabinet shop, that would actually be a hindrance. My workspace benefits by having far more surface area, those benches are tiny, in comparison, but at the same time, mine would be a huge waste of space in some shops.
I have used a minimum of a 4' x 8' MDF tabletop with a 96mm grid of 20mm holes, for years. I use it for squaring assemblies as well as for clamps and hold-downs.

The one [member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member] built is really nice and I would have incorporated more of his ideas, if I had seen them first. When I finally get around to retiring, the new one for home will be a blend of the currant and his.

 

[Michael Kellough]

“…heavy enough and can have a vice/tail vice for holding/securing wood?”

Traditionally a bench for this would be a freestanding stout and heavy construction but if you secure a simple worktop to a wall or strong column so it can not move laterally then you only need relatively lightweight support posts strategically located. Adding a heavy vise would need extra support posts and maybe an apron to stiffen a thin (3/4”) worktop but as long as the base is connected to the worktop/shear panel it will be fully functional.

 

[TSO_Products]

[member=82687]Jlt3b[/member] - welcome to the FOG and congratulations on that wonderful gift surprise - especially when it comes with such clear evidence of family support: priceless!

your move to start by asking questions before charging off is really spot-on. The FOG thread you started already includes the essential information to get you on a path to good learning and usable results to show for it as well.

One other suggestion you might consider:
start a YouTube viewing Log to record the name, URL and some notes followed by a date for each comment you add. It could become your library when you want to go back and re-view something you saw.

There is so much information out there and your assessment will gradually change as you gain experience
and familiarity. Your Log sheet can help retrieve information as you continue. - just a thought.

Keep posting on the FOG!

Hans

Hans

 

[nclemmons]

Since you have the new Festools, I'd start with a MFT style top - easy to hold work while you cut, route, etc.  Make a sacrificial cover for it of 1/4" masonite when you are not doing a lot of MFT style work but optionally leave the front holes exposed so you can clamp for traditional hand work. Best of both worlds!

The key with an MFT style table for hand tools is to anchor it to something that does not move easily, particularly for hand planing.  You want a reasonably rigid base and an anchor to a wall.  I'd suggest a simple bracket or two along a side that might be against the wall, for example to reduce any chance of movement.

Jeff's example is a good start - easy to make with your new tools, and you can be productive with projects in a weekend!  What's most important when starting out to me if build confidence and learn as you go. 

Consider a Parf guide for drilling a matrix of evenly spaced holes in the top.  TSO offers them and I have one that I have used to make benches for myself, my son, son-in-law and friends.  I would also recommend their track square for cutting sheet goods accurately.  The Parf drilling guide with a set of dogs opens up a LOT of possibilities for making quick release vise accessories, etc for various pro or home improvement projects.  I would make the top from a lightweight MDF and seal it with a finish.  That with the sacrificial top will give you a lot of capability.  As your skills improve, consider building a traditional bench if you find you need additional space or more rigidity.

 

[live4ever]

If you truly want a bench that is suitable for hand tool woodworking, take one of the traditional designs and add MFT-style dog holes and a few other modern touches (eg T track on the table edges for accessories like guide rail support/hinge).  The most important aspect of the hand tool workbench is the heft to stand up to the pounding and planing as well as the vise system to be able to clamp something solidly within seconds of walking up to the bench.  Marc Spagnuolo’s hybrid workbench is a really great starting point, and of course if you choose to utilize the Benchcrafted hardware in that design you’re going to have a heck of a hand tool bench. 

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

If you can afford it, I strongly recommend a hydraulic lifting cart underneath whatever table surface you select. This will allow you to adjust the working height, which will vary wildly depending on whether you're working with hand tools, power tools, or assembling.

I have the FAT 500S with the 1" thick top with 20mm grid system and I really like it. It's BIG, and sometimes I find myself musing about constructing a smaller (more narrow) top, but it's an expansive surface on which to assemble doors, windows, stage materials, process sheet goods, etc.... Felder FAT 500S:https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/...es-fat-sc125400/fat-500-s-work-table-sp125410

Rangate is now assembling this style of table in North America:https://us.rangateknotfiller.com/products/rangate-lift-cart-new

If you anticipate some really heavy pounding, I've seen some users fabricate four equal legs to transfer loads directly from the the underside of the top to the shop floor at a specified table height.

 

[Jlt3b]

Wow, thanks everyone!  I can't believe how responsive members of this group seem to be!  I really appreciate all of your input and suggestions!  I've gotta look through all of the links and information you provided!  So helpful!
Best,
Jeff

 

[MikeGE]

When I started building out my shop, I planed on splitting my work between hand tools and powered tools. I considered building a workbench, but then saw a sale at a local hardware store that was closing out its Sjöbergs inventory. The Elite 2000 and internal storage cabinet were offered at half price, so I bought the setup.

Later, as my shop space doubled and I migrated my powered tools to Festool, I needed a large work and assembly table based on the MFT design. I built a 1 x 2 meter MFT-style workbench, based on the @AtomicRyan design, that has a 19mm Valchromat top and storage for my frequently used tools and accessories. Even though the new workbench is mobile, it is so sturdy with only two of the wheels locked that I use it for all of my hand tool tasks, such as planing, chiseling, and sawing. The Sjöbergs has become a storage bench and might be sold to make room for more real storage.

 

[live4ever]

It’s also worth nothing (and you probably realize) that the true hybrid workbench is a very elusive beast.  Most of us end up utilizing multiple workbenches or never getting to that ideal perfect do-it-all bench, settling for the various iterations that come before. 

A lot of the characteristics that make for a good Festool/MFT-style/assembly table (portability, flexibility, ease of construction, etc) can be at odds with what is ideal for a traditional bench.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

It’s also worth nothing (and you probably realize) that the true hybrid workbench is a very elusive beast.  Most of us end up utilizing multiple workbenches or never getting to that ideal perfect do-it-all bench, settling for the various iterations that come before. 

A lot of the characteristics that make for a good Festool/MFT-style/assembly table (portability, flexibility, ease of construction, etc) can be at odds with what is ideal for a traditional bench.

This exactly^^^ The biggest problem is that the optimal height for each is different, so it's hard to combine them. It really does require two.
I do a slightly adjacent version of this at work. My main assembly table 4' x 10' with MFT holes is built to a 36" height. The row of Systainer cabinets is directly behind it, 36" away. It stands a little over 46". The cabinets themselves are exactly 1000mm, to mimic the original Sysports and conform to the intended spacing. Then a 6" toe kick platform and 1 1/2" top.
It is hardly a hand tool workbench, but it does fill the need for something higher, for small hand work. Sharpening chisels,  assembling/repairing, maintaining tools, etc. The main point, other than height, is that having a table without the dog holes is beneficial too. You don't want to be removing the tiny screws of a router base plate, over those holes, for example.  [unsure]

 

[jeffinsgf]

The main point, other than height, is that having a table without the dog holes is beneficial too. You don't want to be removing the tiny screws of a router base plate, over those holes, for example.  [unsure]

If I had it to do over, I would only bore about 2/3 of my outfeed table/bench.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I keep a selection of silicone mats around the shop, they're great for protecting my cast iron machine surfaces, and serve as a quick cover for the perforated table when handling small screws/parts. I have a pair which have a ribbed/corrugated surface, which are particularly helpful for preventing screws from rolling away.