Supporting full sheets for cutting

[Ned]

--- In FestoolOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, Jill Gaddass
wrote:
> on a large piece of plywood over some workhorses aswell !?

You want more stiffness than a simple piece of plywood would provide,
and you'd like the big cutting surface to be as light as possible
(assuming you need to move it around).

My solution is a flat-faced hollow-core door. It's the usual cheapo
door you see at the big box stores. You want one without any lock
holes in it. Get a 36" wide one.

Also get a 4x8 sheet of rigid foam insulation, like styrofoam.
Anything 1/2 inch or more in thickness will do. Foam faced with
plastic or foil is better than unfaced.

Put the door on sawhorses at a comfortable height. Trim the
insulation to fit the door, and stick it together with a
(non-permanent) spray adhesive like 3M 77. If you want, cover the
edges of the foam with duct tape.

The result is stiff support that's very light. While the surface is
smaller than a full 4x8 sheet, it's big enough to support the sheet
well. I've never had a case where I felt the table should have been
bigger.

The foam is sacrificial. You'll be cutting little grooves into it
constantly. Eventually you'll want to replace it, which is why you
should use a non-permanent adhesive.

This solution works very well, is reasonably cheap, and goes together
so quickly that you won't spend all your time getting ready to build
what you wanted to build in the first place.

 

[Lou Miller]

I don't really understand the need for all of this stuff. I just use two collapsable saw horses and 2x4s. Its all the support I need. The 2x4s are sacrificial, so I just cut into them when making crosscuts. When I rip, I spread the 2x4s out so that I have one on each side of the kerf to support the work, but the blade falls in between them. At the ned of the day, everything just gets thrown into the back of the truck.

I see people making elaborate setups all the time and just don't get it. I've been cutting sheet goods on horses and 2x4s for over 20 years and never needed anything better.

To each their own, I guess...

 

[Dan Clark]

2X4's and saw horses?    That sounds like a lot of trouble!  Two sheets of foam insullation on the floor, and I'm in business!   

Dan.

 

[Lou Miller]

2X4's and saw horses?     That sounds like a lot of trouble!   Two sheets of foam insullation on the floor, and I'm in business!   

Dan.

Why is it a lot of trouble? Try it sometime... Cutting sheets on the floor is not good. You may not realize now, but it'll take its toll on your back and your knees over time. Trust me, as someone who is probably having back surgery later this year and has a hard time working without taking pain killers, I speak from experience. The best thing to do is get the sheets somewhere around waist high. Your back and knees will thank you very much so later on in life.

 

[mysterium]

Lou,

I agree with you about working at waist height! 

I also use folding saw horses & 2x4's laying flat but I do use a peice of foam if it's available for extra support.  The foam can be a challange to keep on the horses in between cuts if your outside & the winds blowing..... 

jim

 

[Lou Miller]

Jim,

I don't like the foam underneath the material I'm cutting simply because it limits my ability to use the clamps. I like to clamp blocks to the bottom of the rail that are the same thickness of the material I'm working with. Basically, the blocks act as a fence when I'm making thin repetitive cuts, and or support the rail better. The clamps simply fall into the spaces between the 2x4s.

My habits must be from my early days as a carpenter when my horses were in the mud and I was cutting sheething with a chalk line and a Skilsaw. Old habits die hard...

 

[mysterium]

Lou I see what you mean, it's a good point about making room for the clamps. 

jim

 

[Barry]

For what it is worth I built this table http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/panel_cutting_table.htm and absolutely love it.  I used very wet 2x4s so it has twisted quit a bit on me over time but I still use the heck out of it.  It isn't the most sturdy thing you'll ever work on but it provides good support for sheets with plenty of places to use a clamp.

It folds up in a fairly small footprint to put against the wall and it has many uses beside just cutting up sheet goods.  I have used it extensively while painting trim and finishing of projects.  Best part is it cost me all of about $40 to build, or about half the cost of one replacement MFT 1080 top.  A decent compromise between the door/foam method and the saw horse/2x4 method.....

 

[mysterium]

Hi Barry,

The part I found very interesting is the "loading" of the sheet by simply tipping the table & letting gravity work for you.  Does the table you built off these plans actually work like this?  Does this tipping technique also work when you use a foam sheet?

The table wouldn't work well outside of the shop, but certainly inexpensive to build.

Thanks, jim

 

[Dan Clark]

2X4's and saw horses?     That sounds like a lot of trouble!   Two sheets of foam insullation on the floor, and I'm in business!   

Dan.

Why is it a lot of trouble? Try it sometime... Cutting sheets on the floor is not good. You may not realize now, but it'll take its toll on your back and your knees over time. Trust me, as someone who is probably having back surgery later this year and has a hard time working without taking pain killers, I speak from experience. The best thing to do is get the sheets somewhere around waist high. Your back and knees will thank you very much so later on in life.

Lou,

I expect you're right about working at waist height.  (But it was an excellent opportunity to bust your chops a bit!  ;D  )  When I do a lot of cutting on the floor, I use some knee pads called ProKnees.  The are very odd looking and support your entire shin.  Then take virtually all of the weight off of your knees and help support your back.  Way, WAY, better than standard knee pads (I have four other pairs).    A lot of professional tilers and flooring guys wear them.  Here's a link to their site: http://www.proknee.com

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., I have a bad back and knees.  I had major surgery on my right knee in 1995.   

 

[Barry]

To be honest I have never used the tipping method.  My goal in the shop is to never bend over fully to pick up anythng that weighs more than 30 pounds.  I designed my plywood cart so the sheets are stored horizontal about 16 inches off the ground.  Very easy to slide out, pick up in the center carry over to table and put down on the vertical edge easily without pinching hand because of large open areas.  Then I will usually walk to edge to put the plywood down smoothly, or I'll just drop it if construction grade.

I never used foam on the table either, I just make sure to set my depth of cut correctly before I start.  I'll wear the saw out before the table I imagine...

 

[Dan Clark]

For what it is worth I built this table http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/panel_cutting_table.htm and absolutely love it.  I used very wet 2x4s so it has twisted quit a bit on me over time but I still use the heck out of it.  It isn't the most sturdy thing you'll ever work on but it provides good support for sheets with plenty of places to use a clamp.

It folds up in a fairly small footprint to put against the wall and it has many uses beside just cutting up sheet goods.  I have used it extensively while painting trim and finishing of projects.  Best part is it cost me all of about $40 to build, or about half the cost of one replacement MFT 1080 top.  A decent compromise between the door/foam method and the saw horse/2x4 method.....

Barry,

I've seen various versions of this kind of cutting table.  If I cut more sheet goods, I'd probably switch from the "Foam On Floor Method".  One article I read said that it was easier if the table was at something like knee height rather than waist height.  I believe it was easier to reach across full-size sheets. 

What is the height of yours?  Have you tried a knee-height table?

Regards,

Dan.

 

[MarkF]

Don't forget about your Habitat For Humanity ReStore for excellent deals on used doors.  They need the support!http://www.habitat.org/cd/env/restore.aspx

 

[JayStPeter]

I rebuilt a folding table into a 3'x6' assembly table with a torsion box top.  When it comes time to cut, I slap a piece of 2" foam insulation on it to make it 4x8.  The other thing the foam does is aid in dust collection.  Having the saw teeth in free air at the bottom of the cut gives the dust someplace to go other than the vac.  When I'm done cutting, I take off the foam and use as an assembly table.  I expect to replace it with a large MFT over the next couple years, but the foam will still be key for cutting large panels down.

 

[Barry]

Dan,

All I can tell you from my office is that the table is below my waist.  I used the folding leg sets you can get from HD for $20 and didn't put them even with each other.  If you do that you can't fold one set of the legs flat against the bottom, so I offset each side by about 1 1/2" off center in opposite directions.  I'll measure it when I get home tonight, but I can see where a knee high table would make reaching across the other side much easier...

Barry

 

[Dontee]

I used dowels to put this one together.  No worry about cutting into a nail. I will put the folding legs on it as well.  Hopefully I can find a set for knee height.  Right now I'm using it on very low homemade sawhorses. Keeping it low like this not only makes my sheet cuts easier, it allows me to use the flat surface as a sit down assembly area.  I've found I can do quite a bit of the work sitting down.  This frame will disappear onto the wall when I'm not using it.
It would be difficult for me to do my cutting on the floor. Down… seems to be getting further away every year.
That and the low level work area are my reasons for going to the trouble.

Don

 

[Barry]

Dontee:

Very nice.  I built one just like that for my brother, but I used plywood to try and cut down on the weight, don't know it it work or not, still pretty damn heavy.

Dan:

I just measured, right around 30", best way I can describe it is about crotch high (Sorry...  : ;D)  That height works for me as a compromise for the many things I have used the table for.   I have never tried it a different height though.  Crosscutting a full sheet is a little bit of a stretch but never thought twice about it.  The next time I'm cutting multiple sheets I'll try it at different heights using milk crates and report back here.

HTH

 

[Les]

Dave,

I'm not sure about using a knee high cutting table. I had one and it killed my back. I now use an adjustable height table with 2'x4'plywood and the EZ smart table system. It stills weights more than I'd like and isn't easy to store. The below folding table/cart is intriguing. Easy to store and it will allow rolling the material to other areas. Instead of using 3/4 ply, I'll probably take Ned's advise and use a hollow core door along with the foam sheet. IMO too many worry about rigidity for the table and the door and foam will prove adequate.

 

[Lou Miller]

Just as a follow up to what I said early on in this thread... I said "around" wasit high for a table. Didn't mean for that to be literal. Most saw horses are somewhere close to 30" (mine are actually 28-1/2"). For me, at 6'-2", that's the perfect height. I'd go out of my mind trying to work with a table that was at my knees.

Hey guys... There's a reason saw horses have been around for centuries, they work well. They're cheap too. I use these:

Setup time is roughly about 30 seconds and they tuck nicely in the truck right by the wheel wells. I just go on one of my jobsites and steal some 2x4s from my framers whenever I need them. 6 of them is usually what I carry with me.

 

[Mirko]

If anyone is interested I use the stanley folding saw horse and i find them very sturdy and light. They also have a nice shelf, that acts as a spreader making it very rigid. They are around 20$ each, also because they are plastic, you can cut into them.

Mirko