Systainer air scrubber

[ChuckM]

Snip. the dust from my new table saw is awful.

Regards
Bob

Air filtration systems can't help much with that, and the best solution is to capture dust at source (the table saw, that is), and there's no better method than the SawStop blade guard approach. The guard itself ($200 Cdn!) extracts dust above the table during the cuts.

[attachimg=1]

This is one attempt by a third-party (seen on Amazon, $41 Cdn)) to do the same, but the lack of fins on the sides makes it a lot less effective:

[attachimg=2]

I'd probably start with that, and modify it to include some side strips.

 

[Coen]

Snip. the dust from my new table saw is awful.

Regards
Bob

Air filtration systems can't help much with that, and the best solution is to capture dust at source (the table saw, that is), and there's no better method than the SawStop blade guard approach. The guard itself ($200 Cdn!) extracts dust above the table during the cuts.

[attachimg=1]

This is one attempt by a third-party (seen on Amazon, $41 Cdn)) to do the same, but the lack of fins on the sides makes it a lot less effective:

[attachimg=2]

I'd probably start with that, and modify it to include some side strips.

$200, even in Canadian, is an insane amount for a blade guard with hose port.

 

[ChuckM]

SawStop monopoly!

P.S. SS claims the dust collection blade guard to have a 99% effectiveness. My experience with it:

1) Under 80% if the guard is connected to a 1.5HP dust collector via the main dust collection chute (with a 90* bend).
2) Over 99% if connected to a separate shop vac, except for edge cuts or crosscuts.

That $200 guard is worth every cent if you rip MDF strips continuously...but I agree the price is hard to swallow (it was $169 at the time I bought my saw). The cost of the dust collection arm is extra (some people hook up the guard to a shop vac without buying the arm).

 

[squall_line]

Bob,

In North America, another common shop-made filtration system is the furnace blower version:

Quiet and powerful, but, of course, nowhere as portable as a box fan. I use two filters (one as a pre-filter) for that. When neighbors replaced their furnaces, the working blowers were ditched.

I took a box marked "furnace fan: 2011" that was in our house when we bought it, and an old dusty grimy bathroom exhaust fan to be recycled recently.  I never thought to even test the furnace fan first nor to use it for an air cleaner.  [unsure]

 

[bobtskutter]

Thanks for the ideas people, I'm grateful.  The saw (DWE7492) did come with a blade guard mounted dust collector, and it does make a difference - if I use it.  [embarassed]

I really need to set up a proper dust collection and extraction system.  I've been using an old Dyson vacuum cleaner, which works very well with the Festools, but it's no good with the table saw.  My industrial Henry hoover (not the domestic one that likes to grin at you) does a much better job with the table saw, but it could be much better.

Regards
Bob

 

[mcfal12]

Incredibly the MaxVac arrived this afternoon. I’ve yet to put it through it paces but some initial observations:

1. It’s a good thing it was over boxed because the shipping carton was beat to hell
2. It’s heavier than I expected but not prohibitively
3. The vent hose is difficult to remove and replace in the Systainer. Super tight and I’m worried about the getting torn as the nut for retention screw for the filter retainer is in the same space and rubs against the hose when remove or replacing in the Systainer
4. For $1,000 and knowing they are shipping internationally- they could’ve included a US plug or adapter. They sent both a UK and a EU cable. They cost $3 on Amazon but that’s not the point. Fortunately I had a short NEMA 5-15P to C5 3-Slot Cord Power Supply at home and was about to plug the MaxVac in. I did order a longer 12’ cord which will come tomorrow
5. The sound is comfortable. I powered it on and was still able to have a chat with a person in the next room without yelling.
6. The filter sizes seem to be proprietary which means being beholden to limited sources and significant international shipping costs. Not totally unexpected but worth keeping in mind for those in the States.

I’ll post more as I use the scrubber in the coming days and weeks.

 

[squall_line]

I wish I had one of these today.

Or, I should say, I wish the installers working in my basement had one of these today.

Or maybe I wish they had something better than an open-faced Dewalt 6" grinder hooked to a Ridgid shop vac, or maybe had set a fan in the window for negative pressure, or maybe even had any consideration whatsoever about the mess they were making grinding down over 50 square feet of concrete before laying vinyl sheet flooring down.

There was still a dust cloud in the air 30 minutes after they left for lunch, still lingering 30 minutes later after I had a fan running to exhaust the space out the window, and a layer of dust on everything in the basement including behind the storage closet doors.

How anyone can work like that day in and day out and not even notice it just boggles my mind.

When the rest of the floor gets done in a few years, I'll be seeking out an RG 130 and hooking up my CT26.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
Or, I should say, I wish the installers working in my basement had one of these today..
Snip.

My furnace blower air cleaner used to be mobile on castors as I worried about it being a bit heavy to be hung over my head. It was once borrowed by one of my neighbors who was also a woodworker for a few months for his basement renovation. When he returned it, he said he had changed the filters (previously I fit the cleaner with four filters, two at the front as pre-filters), and highly appreciated its performance. That was when I began to realize its value, and figured out a way to put it at eye level, next to my table saw, the most used and dust generating machine in my shop. I hang the box fan system above my head level near the drill press/sanding station across from the table saw, both controlled by remote timer switches.

 

[bobtskutter]

[member=57948]ChuckS[/member] You may want to look at the fan blades of the air blower to see how dirty they are.  I had a large air blower set up as a bath room extract fan at my rental property and the tenant managed to use so much talc that the fan blades became clogged.

Dust is very likely to stick to the tip of the fan blade due to eddy currents and air turbulence.  (it's the eddy currents that make the noise)

If someone was going to buy a fan and build one of these devices (which I'm going to do) you should consider a fan with a backwards curved impellor.  That design is less likely to have dirt stick to it - chip extractors and leaf blowers are often backwards curved fans to stop dirt sticking.

This is interesting readinghttps://sofasco.com/blogs/article/radial-fan-complete-overview-industrial-applications

Regards
Bob

 

[ChuckM]

Thanks for the suggestion of checking the blades. I'll do that when I do my next round of dust collection clean-up (checking/replacing filters, clearing the dust bins/ bags, etc.).

If I am not wrong, your blower at the rental place didn't have any pre-filter (like those typically found in an air filtration system) other than a protective screen. I use a furnace filter (MERV 7) as a pre-filter in the furnace blower unit before any dust reaches the motor/blades and the final filter (MERV 12).

P.S. I found this link with videos:https://www.prolinerangehoods.com/blog/what-is-a-centrifugal-fan/

I'll try to find out what kind of curve blade a typical furnace squirrel cage blower uses here. I know the cfm for it is 1,000 and above. Or can anyone tell from the pic in reply #19 if the blades are forward curved or backward curved?

 

[mcfal12]

Incredibly the MaxVac arrived this afternoon. I’ve yet to put it through it paces but some initial observations:

1. It’s a good thing it was over boxed because the shipping carton was beat to heck
2. It’s heavier than I expected but not prohibitively
3. The vent hose is difficult to remove and replace in the Systainer. Super tight and I’m worried about the getting torn as the nut for retention screw for the filter retainer is in the same space and rubs against the hose when remove or replacing in the Systainer
4. For $1,000 and knowing they are shipping internationally- they could’ve included a US plug or adapter. They sent both a UK and a EU cable. They cost $3 on Amazon but that’s not the point. Fortunately I had a short NEMA 5-15P to C5 3-Slot Cord Power Supply at home and was about to plug the MaxVac in. I did order a longer 12’ cord which will come tomorrow
5. The sound is comfortable. I powered it on and was still able to have a chat with a person in the next room without yelling.
6. The filter sizes seem to be proprietary which means being beholden to limited sources and significant international shipping costs. Not totally unexpected but worth keeping in mind for those in the States.

I’ll post more as I use the scrubber in the coming days and weeks.

Up until lunch today the u it was working well. I tried to fire it back up this afternoon and the unit won’t turn on. The power button blinks blue and that’s all the unit does. I’ve contacted the seller and will keep you all posted.

 

[bobtskutter]

Or can anyone tell from the pic in reply #19 if the blades are forward curved or backward curved?

I'm 95% sure that's a forward curved fan blade.
It has lot's of blades sat in a volute housing.
A backwards curved fan has a low number of blades and doesn't need a volute housing to make the fan work.

This is a backwards curved fan rotor:https://www.pbmmf.com/products-category/backward-curved-centrifugal-fan.html

This has a forward curve design:https://www.pbmmf.com/products-category/single-inlet-blower.html

I doubt it's going to make much difference for you, considering all the filters you have before the fan.

Regards
bob

 

[ChuckM]

Thanks, Bob.

The pre-filter really does its job, which I need to replace this week:

[attachimg=1]

 

[mcfal12]

Incredibly the MaxVac arrived this afternoon. I’ve yet to put it through it paces but some initial observations:

1. It’s a good thing it was over boxed because the shipping carton was beat to heck
2. It’s heavier than I expected but not prohibitively
3. The vent hose is difficult to remove and replace in the Systainer. Super tight and I’m worried about the getting torn as the nut for retention screw for the filter retainer is in the same space and rubs against the hose when remove or replacing in the Systainer
4. For $1,000 and knowing they are shipping internationally- they could’ve included a US plug or adapter. They sent both a UK and a EU cable. They cost $3 on Amazon but that’s not the point. Fortunately I had a short NEMA 5-15P to C5 3-Slot Cord Power Supply at home and was about to plug the MaxVac in. I did order a longer 12’ cord which will come tomorrow
5. The sound is comfortable. I powered it on and was still able to have a chat with a person in the next room without yelling.
6. The filter sizes seem to be proprietary which means being beholden to limited sources and significant international shipping costs. Not totally unexpected but worth keeping in mind for those in the States.

I’ll post more as I use the scrubber in the coming days and weeks.

Up until lunch today the u it was working well. I tried to fire it back up this afternoon and the unit won’t turn on. The power button blinks blue and that’s all the unit does. I’ve contacted the seller and will keep you all posted.

Being it's now end of day in the UK; anther day has come and gone with no response to an email or their 'customer service chat'.
It's looking like a buyer beware situation. I'm not impressed with the seller's customer support and given the number of emails I've received with deals and products from them makes it that more infuriating.

I'll given them another day before opening the electronics and fixing this thing myself.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

[member=76944]mcfal12[/member] Really sorry to hear that. I sent them a mail telling them about this thread as I thought they might be interested. No reply to that, either. I hope you get fixed up and receive some kind of satisfactory response - if you don't, I won't be ordering mine as planned.

 

[ChuckM]

snip.
I doubt it's going to make much difference for you, considering all the filters you have before the fan.

Regards
bob

You were right. The dust clinging on the fan blades (after 8 years of use or longer) is minimal.

[attachimg=1]

New MERV5 & 12 filters (old Merv 12 one on the right) installed:

[attachimg=2]

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

$200, even in Canadian, is an insane amount for a blade guard with hose port.

The dust collection blade guard is worth its keep:

In this stock preparation for 5 drawers, a veneered mdf board (9.5" x 95") was trimmed into pieces for the fronts and sides. The board was first crosscut on the Kapex. After 16 rip cuts on the table saw (including 4 edge cuts), few saw dust escaped from the blade guard. I had the air filtration system turned on, but not wearing a mask.

[attachimg=1]    [attachimg=3]

[attachimg=2]

 

[mcfal12]

Incredibly the MaxVac arrived this afternoon. I’ve yet to put it through it paces but some initial observations:

1. It’s a good thing it was over boxed because the shipping carton was beat to heck
2. It’s heavier than I expected but not prohibitively
3. The vent hose is difficult to remove and replace in the Systainer. Super tight and I’m worried about the getting torn as the nut for retention screw for the filter retainer is in the same space and rubs against the hose when remove or replacing in the Systainer
4. For $1,000 and knowing they are shipping internationally- they could’ve included a US plug or adapter. They sent both a UK and a EU cable. They cost $3 on Amazon but that’s not the point. Fortunately I had a short NEMA 5-15P to C5 3-Slot Cord Power Supply at home and was about to plug the MaxVac in. I did order a longer 12’ cord which will come tomorrow
5. The sound is comfortable. I powered it on and was still able to have a chat with a person in the next room without yelling.
6. The filter sizes seem to be proprietary which means being beholden to limited sources and significant international shipping costs. Not totally unexpected but worth keeping in mind for those in the States.

I’ll post more as I use the scrubber in the coming days and weeks.

Up until lunch today the u it was working well. I tried to fire it back up this afternoon and the unit won’t turn on. The power button blinks blue and that’s all the unit does. I’ve contacted the seller and will keep you all posted.

Being it's now end of day in the UK; anther day has come and gone with no response to an email or their 'customer service chat'.
It's looking like a buyer beware situation. I'm not impressed with the seller's customer support and given the number of emails I've received with deals and products from them makes it that more infuriating.

I'll given them another day before opening the electronics and fixing this thing myself.

It’s been two weeks and my service request has gone unanswered by despite multiple attempts to contact them, including by phone. I’ve contacted my credit card company and they advised giving it 30 days and then I can invoke my product protection and dispute the charge. I may go that route… before I do I am going to take a shot at fixing the unit myself this weekend.

Ironically, they have spammed me relentlessly, despite opting out, with advertisements. And even worse- and honestly my motivation for posting this morning- is they sent me an invoice for 157.99 - despite having paid in full at time of purchase.

I accept full responsibility for my choice to purchase a product from this company without sourcing more information. But As I said before, buyer beware.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
… before I do I am going to take a shot at fixing the unit myself this weekend.

Snip.

Be careful with this because if you tampered with the machine, the seller could argue with your credit card issuer that the machine worked well or could easily be adjusted/fixed with a part, etc. if not for your unauthorized attempt. (Credit card companies can reverse any charge or refund even after they appear on the account if they later find the seller on good ground.)

If I decided to get a full refund, I would leave the machine as is.

In a recent purchase, the seller suggested (read: lied) to the online business platform that I had changed the content of a digital device when I escalated the matter for a refund. I took pictures of the device which was still factory sealed, and received the ruing in my favor the next day.

 

[mcfal12]

Snip.
… before I do I am going to take a shot at fixing the unit myself this weekend.

Snip.

Be careful with this because if you tampered with the machine, the seller could argue with your credit card issuer that the machine worked well or could easily be adjusted/fixed with a part, etc. if not for your unauthorized attempt. (Credit card companies can reverse any charge or refund even after they appear on the account if they later find the seller on good ground.)

If I decided to get a full refund, I would leave the machine as is.

In a recent purchase, the seller suggested (read: lied) to the online business platform that I had changed the content of a digital device when I escalated the matter for a refund. I took pictures of the device which was still factory sealed, and received the ruing in my favor the next day.

Excellent point. I would counter to the CC company the failure to engage or respond so that I could work with them on this issue - but it is still an excellent point.