T 15+3 drill

[Len R]

Does the Centrotec chuck accept standard hex shank drill bits?  Or must I buy Centrotec bits?

Many thanks,

Len

 

[ART at WORK]

Welcome,
No
Yes
Or you have to file the hex heads down to size.

Pip

 

[Brice Burrell]

The answer to your question is yes and no.  The Centrotec chuck dosen't take hex bits directly.  However, hex screw driving bits do fit in the Centrotec bit holders.  Of course you don't have to buy Centrotec bits, you can always use the keyless chuck and use any bits you want just like you do with any other drill. 

 

[tbellemare]

You can also put 14" hex bits directly into the output shaft of the drill.

Tom

 

[NHSP759]

Took me a while to figure this out Len. Once you get used to it it works slick. I bought the two pack of bits for $12 and they are slowly replacing my Dewalt bits. Only problem is the Kreg drivers I have but they do fit right in the output shaft no problemo.

 

[Len R]

Thanks all for the replies.  It is not practical for me to get this drill, I have a large collection of hex shank drills and drivers of many kinds in increments of 1/32".  Using them in the keyless chuck defeats the purpose of quick change hex shanks; also one of the most attractive features to me is the offset chuck, but can't see buying it if that chuck won't accept any of my hex shanks.  Maybe Seneca or another company will come up with a solution.

Len

 

[wow]

It is not practical for me to get this drill, I have a large collection of hex shank drills and drivers of many kinds in increments of 1/32".  Using them in the keyless chuck defeats the purpose of quick change hex shanks; also one of the most attractive features to me is the offset chuck, but can't see buying it if that chuck won't accept any of my hex shanks. 

Even though I purchased (and use, with an adaptor) the Centrotec installers kit, I totally agree with your assessment. This is one of the few instances where - in my opinion - Festool has completely missed the boat.

If there where no suitable systems out there that would be one thing, but the hex system - while it certainly isn't perfect - is ubiquitous and works fine for pretty much anything I need it to do. Bits are cheap, and I can pick up almost any style at any 'big box' store if I need one. Heck, you can find common #2 phillips hex bits at the gas station, for heavens sake?!

I have been totally unable to convince myself that I need a $245 CXS drill (with ONE battery) when I bought a Milwaukee BRUSHLESS M12 Drill/Driver KIT for less than $180 on sale. That's for TWO tools and TWO batteries. And the batteries have a FIVE YEAR warranty, no less!

As a self proclaimed 'Senior Festooligan' I pride myself for having a vast array of green goodness that I find a delight to own and use. Cordless drills, though, aren't among them...

 

[AlexThePalex]

Even though I purchased (and use, with an adaptor) the Centrotec installers kit, I totally agree with your assessment. This is one of the few instances where - in my opinion - Festool has completely missed the boat.

If there where no suitable systems out there that would be one thing, but the hex system - while it certainly isn't perfect - is ubiquitous and works fine for pretty much anything I need it to do. Bits are cheap, and I can pick up almost any style at any 'big box' store if I need one. Heck, you can find common #2 phillips hex bits at the gas station, for heavens sake?!

Wow, you seem pretty outspoken when you use terms like "for heavens sake!" and "completely missed the boat".

I totally do not understand objections to Festool drills like that. Seen a lot of people make them here over time.

What is that makes hex bits work with all other drills? A Jacobs chuck.

What is it that every Festool drill has? A Jacobs chuck.

So what is this Centrotec thingy? An EXTRA. An extra drills from other brands don't have.

When you judge Festool drills only by the Centrotec system you make a big oversight of other very useful features. The extra chucks is only one of them. About 5 or 6 are made by Festool so that gives a lot of functionality. And then there's simply the control and ease of use to consider, the sensitivity of the trigger and the smoothness of the motor. And then the incredible speed of the PDC drills, I haven't seen any other cordless drill run at 3800 rpm. Makes you work so much faster.

 

 

[Kevin Stricker]

The eccentric (offset) chuck accepts all ball and wire detent bits, so don't sweat it.  Funny thing is it does not also accept centrotec bits, well they fit but do not lock in. 

 

[Ajax]

Even though I purchased (and use, with an adaptor) the Centrotec installers kit, I totally agree with your assessment. This is one of the few instances where - in my opinion - Festool has completely missed the boat.

If there where no suitable systems out there that would be one thing, but the hex system - while it certainly isn't perfect - is ubiquitous and works fine for pretty much anything I need it to do. Bits are cheap, and I can pick up almost any style at any 'big box' store if I need one. Heck, you can find common #2 phillips hex bits at the gas station, for heavens sake?!

Wow, you seem pretty outspoken when you use terms like "for heavens sake!" and "completely missed the boat".

I totally do not understand objections to Festool drills like that. Seen a lot of people make them here over time.

What is that makes hex bits work with all other drills? A Jacobs chuck.

What is it that every Festool drill has? A Jacobs chuck.

So what is this Centrotec thingy? An EXTRA. An extra drills from other brands don't have.

When you judge Festool drills only by the Centrotec system you make a big oversight of other very useful features. The extra chucks is only one of them. About 5 or 6 are made by Festool so that gives a lot of functionality. And then there's simply the control and ease of use to consider, the sensitivity of the trigger and the smoothness of the motor. And then the incredible speed of the PDC drills, I haven't seen any other cordless drill run at 3800 rpm. Makes you work so much faster.

I'm not convinced.  Like others have said, where's the value proposition?  I love my Domino machines, sanders, and track saw.  All are either unique or blow away other brands.  I just don't see what the Festool drills and drivers offer that trumps my Bosch 12v and 18v system.  Don't get me wrong.  If Festool lowered the price and I had to start over, I'd buy the CSX and go from there.  But that's not where many of us are at.  We have existing systems that either work adequately or that we are happy with.  Festool needs to show convincingly why I should switch to their drivers and drills.

 

[amt]

I think I somewhat agree with Ajax's statement, even though I bought a Festool drill recently.  Spending $500-600 on a drill is a hard pill to swallow.  If it were not for the reconditioned sale, I probably would not have a T15 today.  However, at $210 for a older generation full set, the barrier for entry was low enough for me to try it.

And while I like the drill a lot, there are some issues:

1) The 1/4" bits don't hold very well when used directly in the drill (no chuck)
2) While the eccentric chuck is wonderful for tight spots, it also tends to let go of 1/4" bits that grab quite hard into screws (so far my experience is limited to robertson drive), and it does not hold centrotec bits at all.
3) There is an optional centrotec adapter with 1/4" wire detent, but at $35, seems overprices, especially since the reviews for it have been generally poor.  So this leaves using a non-Festool adapter, but either combined with a jacobs chuck (dedicated for this? then another $65) or modifying an existing one to fit in the centrotec chuck.  I am leaning towards the latter.

So my general gripe is that 1/4" "performance" in the Festool drills is so-so.  The non-Festool alternative is really getting two units, one for drilling and a dedicated 1/4" driver, so swapping chucks is never needed.

 

[elfick]

Keep in mind that the centrotec chuck is just one of 6 (5+none) chucks available for use.
To me, the FastFix chuck system is really how Festool sets its drills apart. Normal hex bits fit in the fast fix chuck directly but only have magnetic retention. This isn't enough for drill bits, but works fine for drivers in my experience.

Edit: I do have a T15+3 but I haven't touched it since I got the CXS. I'm hoping the rest of the drill line is eventually available in NA as I think the CXS + the 18v stuff they have makes a great combo.

 

[wow]

This is a GREAT discussion which I am enjoying immensely. Please feel free to make additional comments or observations!

All of my comments are meant in the spirit of good debate. If they come off a bit - well - impassioned, please take them as they were intended?

[smile]

Wow, you seem pretty outspoken

Me, outspoken? Naaa...

But I'll never be mistaken as a Festool Fanboi, huh?

[big grin]

...when you use terms like "for heavens sake!" and "completely missed the boat".

Well, if I can buy a common hex detent bit at the gas station, I think that is a significant comment about the utility and adoption of the system.

I totally do not understand objections to Festool drills like that. Seen a lot of people make them here over time.

And one thing I just don’t understand is the mindset that you (edit: 'you' meaning Festool in this case, not Alex) can’t embrace something designed by someone else if it works? I don’t see that it would be a significant problem for Festool to support standard detent hex bits IN ADDITION TO the Centrotec System? I can’t imagine that it would cost much to do so, and then this whole conversation might become moot.

What is that makes hex bits work with all other drills? A Jacobs chuck.

What is it that every Festool drill has? A Jacobs chuck.

Not exactly - and certainly not the comparison I intended to make.

My Milwaukee M12 drivers have a quick-release hex chuck very similar to the Centrotec chuck. It is quite a bit smaller in diameter and - I think - an 'imperial smidgeon’ shorter...by maybe 1/8 of an inch? Really lets you get into tight spaces.

The drills, of course, have standard non-detachable Jacobs chucks. And while the 'paper' benefits of having to carry only one drill/driver to a job are valid, I find that I always have at least two at hand anyway when I am working, so this ‘value' is lost on me.

So what is this Centrotec thingy? An EXTRA. An extra drills from other brands don't have.

When you judge Festool drills only by the Centrotec system you make a big oversight of other very useful features. The extra chucks is only one of them. About 5 or 6 are made by Festool so that gives a lot of functionality.

Actually, I would give Festool a LOT more credit than calling it an ‘Extra’. I’d call it a system. And in typical Festool fashion, a well-designed one at that. But I bought a similar system with my Milwaukee M12 tools - a Brushless, LI drill driver Combo KIt - for less than $180. Including TWO tools and TWO batteries. And the batteries come with a FIVE YEAR warranty!

But you make some other excellent points:

• ...then there's simply the control and ease of use to consider, the sensitivity of the trigger and the smoothness of the motor.

I’ve not noticed these being a problem in my Milwaukee products, but to be fair I’ve not spent hours with them side-by-side. If Festool or a dealer wants to send me a CXS to compare to my Milwaukee M12 I’ll be happy to give it a fair shake. I just am not convinced enough to tie up my own money for 30 days or more.

•  the incredible speed of the PDC drills, I haven't seen any other cordless drill run at 3800 rpm. Makes you work so much faster.

I can’t comment on this, since the PDC’s are MIA over here. AKA NAINA.

 

[GarryMartin]

Took me a while to figure this out Len. Once you get used to it it works slick. I bought the two pack of bits for $12 and they are slowly replacing my Dewalt bits. Only problem is the Kreg drivers I have but they do fit right in the output shaft no problemo.

You can get Robertson R2 square drive Centrotec bits for your Kreg needs.

http://www.atlas-machinery.com/listings/Centrotec-AtMac-Impact-Bits

 

[amt]

And then the incredible speed of the PDC drills, I haven't seen any other cordless drill run at 3800 rpm. Makes you work so much faster.

Here's one @3850 RPM: http://www.feinus.com/en_us/fastening/cordless-drill-drivers/ascm-18-qxc-0307707/

Actually I bet it's the same max speed.  Probably the exact same drill under the covers.  I wonder if the Fein 1/4" chuck would work on a Festool drill

 

[AlexThePalex]

And then the incredible speed of the PDC drills, I haven't seen any other cordless drill run at 3800 rpm. Makes you work so much faster.

Here's one @3850 RPM: http://www.feinus.com/en_us/fastening/cordless-drill-drivers/ascm-18-qxc-0307707/

Actually I bet it's the same max speed.  Probably the exact same drill under the covers.  I wonder if the Fein 1/4" chuck would work on a Festool drill

Pretty sure it is the same drill, maybe a few minor changes here and there. The chuck is not interchangeable with Festool as I have come to understand. This question came up here before and a German member who had the Fein said so.

 

[NHSP759]

Took me a while to figure this out Len. Once you get used to it it works slick. I bought the two pack of bits for $12 and they are slowly replacing my Dewalt bits. Only problem is the Kreg drivers I have but they do fit right in the output shaft no problemo.

You can get Robertson R2 square drive Centrotec bits for your Kreg needs.

http://www.atlas-machinery.com/listings/Centrotec-AtMac-Impact-Bits

Thanks Garry! That helps a lot!

 

[TelcoRandy]

I want to say this...

I own 3 Festool drills, I'm love them so much that I bought three (I definitely didn't need 3 either - T18, C15 and CSX). It's the Fastfix system that is the big kicker for me, if they didn't have Fastfix I wouldn't own any of my drills or any other Festools for that matter today (the drills got me started). My first Festool purchase was a T18 and it was almost everything I had dreamed it would be.

HOWEVER, I am siding with wow though with the exception of the gripes about price. Once again, with Festool you get a rock solid tool + 3 year warranty, 30 day return policy, fantastic customer service, the fog, blah blah blah blah blah, etc.

But, I am still in disbelief that there is no solution for standard 1/4" hex bits with ball detents with Festool drills. I completely understand that it would compromise the profile of the drill by making an interchangeable chuck longer than a Centrotec one, but I still want a quick-release chuck and it's obvious from many other forum posters that they want one too!

It is apparent to me that Festool has their own agenda with respect to these standard 1/4" hex bits and I am almost to the point of giving up griping about it in multiple forum posts. This decision for them to not include a quick-change chuck for standard ball detent 1/4" hex bits is intentional and I would suspect this would never change. I've also given up on wanting to purchase a PDC/Duradrive and SDS hammer drill from Festool either. This is a company that is not committed to North American markets. Once their patents expire they will probably disappear from North America all together.
The End.

- Randy

 

[wow]

I want to say this...

I own 3 Festool drills, I'm love them so much that I bought three (I definitely didn't need 3 either - T18, C15 and CSX). It's the Fastfix system that is the big kicker for me, if they didn't have Fastfix I wouldn't own any of my drills or any other Festools for that matter today (the drills got me started). My first Festool purchase was a T18 and it was almost everything I had dreamed it would be.

HOWEVER, I am siding with wow though with the exception of the gripes about price. Once again, with Festool you get a rock solid tool + 3 year warranty, 30 day return policy, fantastic customer service, the fog, blah blah blah blah blah, etc.

But, I am still in disbelief that there is no solution for standard 1/4" hex bits with ball detents with Festool drills. I completely understand that it would compromise the profile of the drill by making an interchangeable chuck longer than a Centrotec one, but I still want a quick-release chuck and it's obvious from many other forum posters that they want one too!

It is apparent to me that Festool has their own agenda with respect to these standard 1/4" hex bits and I am almost to the point of giving up griping about it in multiple forum posts. This decision for them to not include a quick-change chuck for standard ball detent 1/4" hex bits is intentional and I would suspect this would never change. I've also given up on wanting to purchase a PDC/Duradrive and SDS hammer drill from Festool either. This is a company that is not committed to North American markets. Once their patents expire they will probably disappear from North America all together.
The End.

- Randy

And here Alex thought *I* was being harsh? Randy, you don't tip-toe around, do you?

[big grin]

My comments about the price of Festool's drills is that I just don't see the value other people seem to see. Or the obvious value that exists in their other products. For instance:

Track Saw - industry leader, great value
Domino - nothing compares. Exceptional value
Routers - might have viable competition, but still a good value
Sanders - might have viable competition (thinking Mirka here) but still a good value
Dust Extractors - great value

I wanna be sure to give credit where credit is due...

 

[Len R]

Well this has been a very interesting debate.  I was not expecting such an outpouring, but I guess this topic struck a nerve.  I am a recent but rabid Festool convert, enjoying the benefits of the Domino XL, the MFT/3, the 150/3 sander, the RO 90, the TS 55 track saw, and OF 1400, and the CT Midi 36.  But the drill issue as discussed leaves me in limbo.  I'm mot inclined to rebuild my entire hex shank collection (even if that was possible, which I doubt) in order to use the Festool drill.  I'm still hoping for a solution...