T12 +3/15 +3...which?

[bill-e]

Hi folks,

So I'm getting ready to replace some batteries on my current TDK 12 and 15.6 and I'm going to go with NiMH.

Then I saw the new Bosch PS31 and that looks like a great drill too for about $150.

Anyway, since I like green and black my first preference would be to add a Lithium battery drill from Festool to my collection but I'm kinda torn between the two offerings.

When I previously reviewed the TDK 12 and 15.6 I was pretty convinced that if a person could only have one drill it would be the 15.6.  I'm wondering if that still holds true for the T +3's?

The other drawback when upgrading to the new series of drill is that only the 12+3 is offered sans chucks.  While my son in law (aka "the one who gets all my hand me downs") would be happy if I spent the extra bucks on the chucks, I probably won't.

So after all this rambling I guess I'm wondering if I'll have buyers remorse for not getting the 15 +3, realizing that I'll still have a TDK 15.6 with fresh NiMH batteries.

What I'd really like is like 30 volts in a 2 pound drill

 

[peter halle]

Bill,

First - it is great seeing you back and posting!  I recently got a T15-3 and I have had a TDK-12 for a couple of years.  My TDK-12 sits ignored in its little box.  The new model is that much better.  I would sell the lonely drill, but I gave away all my other cordless drills in the FOG for charity contest and Festool or otherwise, I will never have just one cordless drill.

My guess is that if you buy the set you could sell the extra chucks if you wanted to recoup some of your expenditure.

Peter

 

[tbellemare]

only the 12+3 is offered sans chucks

Bill:

You can get the T 15 + 3 w/o extra chucks.

Do you already have the right angle & eccentric chucks? I consider these to be VERY significant when considering the value of a Festool drill. With them and the depth stop chuck, you have essentially 4 or5 drills in one. If you already have them, you don't need them again unless you have two operators. Add the fact that the new batteries are guaranteed for 3 years and I think the math adds up to a value compared to typical HD or Lowes offerings.

Tom

 

[bill-e]

Thanks Tom,

For some reason I missed that....it didn't make sense to me either but I thought that only the 12 +3 was offered alone.

Yes, I already have the chucks.

This makes my decision process a bit easier, now I just have to pry open the wallet without my wife getting suspicious.

 

[Bob Marino]

Bill,

I would echo what Tom said regarding the usefullnes of the accessory chucks - part of what makes Festool drills, well, Festool drills - and their tool line in general - never making a "me too" tool, but never adding features that don't enhance the usefullness of the tools. But, as noted, the drill can be ordered w/o the extra chucks.
Either way, the new T drills...and upcoming C drills, raise the bar and leave the other manufactures playing catch-up.

 Bob

 

[AlexThePalex]

T15 of course ..... always.

 

[bill-e]

Bill,

I would echo what Tom said regarding the usefullnes of the accessory chucks - part of what makes Festool drills, well, Festool drills - and their tool line in general - never making a "me too" tool, but never adding features that don't enhance the usefullness of the tools. But, as noted, the drill can be ordered w/o the extra chucks.
Either way, the new T drills...and upcoming C drills, raise the bar and leave the other manufactures playing catch-up.

 Bob

Bob,

I already have the chucks hence the original question...which was asked that way because I mis-read your site and thought only the 12+3 was offered without chucks.

In my opinion the thing that sets Festool drills apart are the chucks, not the drills themselves.  While I've never used the new technology drills, I think you'd be hard pressed to convince me that the electronics alone justified the higher price.  There are many, many very good drill/drivers on the market. The chucks on the other hand make the Festool drill in my opinion and set it apart.

Of course it also depends on your intended use.  I absolutely love my old Bosch Compact Tough 9.6v NiCD.  It's light, small and tough.  More than once I've tossed it off the roof of my house without damage....something I'd never do with the TDK.  That Bosch is ready to be retired (unless I get new batteries and a new chuck for it) and this all started with me searching for a replacement and finding the Bosch PS31.  There's still a chance that I just replace all my TDK batteries and pick up the Bosch to use as my beater drill though I'd really love to try the new technology Festool drills...decisions, decisions.

And just a small gloat since I haven't posted here much, After Christmas I picked up a Milwaukee 14.4 NiMH Impact driver from Woodcraft or Rockler, cant remember.  $99 but the batteries weren't all that great...so they sent me another set.  So, 99 bucks w/4 batteries...Not bad.

Go Yanks!

 

[Bob Marino]

Bill,

I would echo what Tom said regarding the usefulness of the accessory chucks - part of what makes Festool drills, well, Festool drills - and their tool line in general - never making a "me too" tool, but never adding features that don't enhance the usefullness of the tools. But, as noted, the drill can be ordered w/o the extra chucks.
Either way, the new T drills...and upcoming C drills, raise the bar and leave the other manufactures playing catch-up.

 Bob

Bob,

In my opinion the thing that sets Festool drills apart are the chucks, not the drills themselves.  While I've never used the new technology drills, I think you'd be hard pressed to convince me that the electronics alone justified the higher price.  There are many, many very good drill/drivers on the market. The chucks on the other hand make the Festool drill in my opinion and set it apart.

Of course it also depends on your intended use.  I absolutely love my old Bosch Compact Tough 9.6v NiCD.  It's light, small and tough.  More than once I've tossed it off the roof of my house without damage....something I'd never do with the TDK.  That Bosch is ready to be retired (unless I get new batteries and a new chuck for it) and this all started with me searching for a replacement and finding the Bosch PS31.  There's still a chance that I just replace all my TDK batteries and pick up the Bosch to use as my beater drill though I'd really love to try the new technology Festool drills...decisions, decisions.

Go Yanks!

Bill,

I would stand by my statement - "accessory chucks - part of what makes Festool drills, well, Festool drills". Admittedly, the chucks are the most obvious examples of the usefulness/uniqueness of their drills, but there is also the (2nd generation) brushless motors, overload protection, low battery indication, electronic clutch, high torque at low speeds and the incredible (IMHO) controlability at very low  speeds that set Festool drills apart from the other brands and adds to the higher price.
  These  items may or may not be of enough importance for some to justify the purchase and  I will be the first to admit and agree with you, that there are "many, many very good drill/drivers on the market". I was never a "it's Festool, or it's junk"  type of guy.
As Shane noted, the battery prices for the TDK drills have been reduced, sooooooooooo replacing your older TDK batteries is a nice option...and it's always good to have options.

Go Yanks!

Bob

 

[Holzhacker]

I have a T15 and a C12. The C12 does a lot of sitting around these days since the T15. If I had to buy another day to day drill it would be the T15 again. I don't see any point in buying a T12 for the little less money. The C12 mainly gets used for finish work these days. For finish work I think it is a better drill than the T due to size and configuration.
I would say the chucks are maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of the Festool drill advantage. The rest is the lack of weight and ergonomics. I've owned more Bosch drills than I can remember. The Bosch drills are workhorses that you can beat the crap out of for a good amount of time. However, use a Bosch one day all day, then use a T15 one day all day. You won't want to use the Bosch again. I still have my last one in the basement somewhere.
Are the Festool drill prices a bit insane, YES. Will I buy another one or a hammer version at a ridiculously high price, YES.
If money is tight, buy the Bosch. If you can afford it and don't want your hands or wrists to hurt by the end of the day, buy the T15.
My comments assume you use the drills for a living. If for hobby purposes, buy what fits the wallet.

 

[bill-e]

I'm just a hobbyist and possibly the biggest struggle I have is whether or not I retire my TDK 12 and 15 in favor of a T 15 or just upgrade the TDK's to NiMH (

 

[Brice Burrell]

Bill, another thing to consider with the T15 is how long the Li Ion batteries hold their charge.  I know if my old DeWalt batteries sat for a week they'd need charged, not the case with the T15's batteries.  I did a test for my T15 review, I left one of the batteries idle for 8 weeks and it held its charge surprisingly well.  A guess would be it held maybe 70% of its charge.  Might be a nice feature for the hobbyist.

 

[bill-e]

Brice, yea, that is one of the advantages of the lithium batteries.  I must say though that when my TDK NiCD's were newer, like for the first couple of years, they held their charge surprisingly well.

 

[tdfiver]

Over the previous 6 years I've been in business, I have had 1 Dewalt 18v Nimh and 3 makita 18V NiMh. I have worn them all out, generally the gear boxes go phut !!

Although I usually buy hammer drills, I have a Makita SDS which is way better than the all round 18V drills anyway. So last month I bought a T15+3 and its way better. Lower weight, smaller and just as powerful.

I will see how this gets on although I have found myself being more careful with it, as its just so nice  ;D the big thing I do miss is the belt clip so I may buy another battery with added belt clip for ladder work, other than that with all 4 chucks its brilliant.

 

[Jim Becker]

Interestingly, I have the TDK-12 (with a recent upgrade to the newer batteries when the NiCADs finally gave out) and it's my workhorse over my otherwise great Dewalt 14.4. It goes and goes and goes....and I like the weight and balance.  But, I've not really experienced the 15v version. It seems that folks really think the world of it!

 

[harry_]

I have the 15 +3, LOVE it!

 

[bill-e]

Interestingly, I have the TDK-12 (with a recent upgrade to the newer batteries when the NiCADs finally gave out) and it's my workhorse over my otherwise great Dewalt 14.4. It goes and goes and goes....and I like the weight and balance.  But, I've not really experienced the 15v version. It seems that folks really think the world of it!

Jim, I'm really leaning toward upgrading the batteries on the TDK's.  I like the drills and after all, I'm only a hobbyist.

 

[Spike]

Phenomenal drill. I have the T15+3, Light weight, smooth, quiet, powerful, compact. Just a wonderful drill.