T18+3 vs. Protool PDC/DRC 18-4 vs. ???....

B

Bob Gerritsen

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
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241
Hi all,

I did do a search but found nothing much. However, I can imagine this has been discussed before, if so please point me in the right direction.

I make cabinets and furniture mostly but more and more a bit more heavy stuff (like mezzanines and decks) and I'm thinking about getting a bigger cordless drill next to my C12. I do have an older Makita 14,4, the set with the impact driver. Do not like this much but hang on to it for the impact driver. Plus I want something with a lot more torque as this is close to the C12.

The T18+3 would probably make me very happy, had I not seen the Protool beasts. More torque, more speed and even the hammer option for about the same price. Downside is I would give up a 100% compatibility with the C12 with regards to the bits. Hmmm, choices.....

So who has the Protool or better yet both or experience with both and can therefor shine a light? My neighbor at the workshop has the Protool and the T15+3 and it is clear that they both get their use. I can imagine the T18+3 being more like the Protool but need to get a realistic idea of their differences in the field so to speak.

Also, I'm open to any suggestions with regards to other brands. When searching this I saw the Bosch GSR 18 VE-2 Li get mentioned, it is very strong and very cheap compared to the Festool and Protool models.

In short; I basically want a very strong cordless drill that complements my C12 (I love that drill and it will remain my number 1 I think). Although it would be great to be able to use all the special bits on both, I don't consider this necessary for the rougher work.

So there you go, any experience out there?

Cheers! Bob.
 
Sorry, that wasn't clear, I mean the heads, 90 degree and off center heads. If understood correctly, the protool and festool heads do not mix. Bummer....

In fact, I'm wondering if a Festool centrotec bit holder would fit the Protool centrotec head and vice versa. Anyone?
 
Bob Gerritsen said:
Sorry, that wasn't clear, I mean the heads, 90 degree and off center heads. If understood correctly, the protool and festool heads do not mix. Bummer....

In fact, I'm wondering if a Festool centrotec bit holder would fit the Protool centrotec head and vice versa. Anyone?
Click to expand...

Hello Bob,
Only the following Festool Centrotec chunks will fit the Protool Centrotec range:
- WH-CE head (492135)
pvbm_bs_whce_492135_z_02a.png

- BF-FX8 or FX10 or FX13 Jacobs head
pvbm_bs_bffx13c_496905_z_01a.png


All the 3 other Festool chunks will NOT FIT Protool:
- DD-DC (FastFix Depth Stop)
- DD-ES (FastFix Eccentric)
- DD-AS (FastFix Angle)

Therefore Protool has it's own Angled head which has no Fastfix but a kind of clamp which fits around the aluminium shaft.
pvbm_01_audrp16_635865_p_01a.png


Protool has 2 Fastfix chunks that will fit Festool:
- DC UNI FF (Depth Stop)
pvbm_01_dcuniff_779690_p_02a.png

- AD-3/8 FF (3/8" bolt head)
pvbm_01_ad38ff_635866_p_01a.png


You can also watch this Polish video which compares the DRC18 and the T18 drills.
 
Thanks Neeleman! I actually just watched that vid, it left me somewhat puzzled... What do you think is his conclusion?  ;)

All in all I think the Protool is an awesome machine, the torque is great for it's weight and the highest speed setting is simply a bonus. I checked for competition but found nothing in the same class that isn't quite a bit heavier. So that sort of confirms that it is between the Protool and the T18+3 for me. I'm thinking the Protool is the better machine with the extra speed and the hammer.

Anyone else with experience?
 
Hello Bob,

I don't own a Protool machine yet but I'm interested in buying one in the future. There are new models within a few weeks in the shops around Europe.
They now have a light, battery level and a few cosmetic changes.
pkom_01_pdc184tecli_764940_p_13a.png


I think the Protool DRC/PDC are one of the best drills on the market but it's aming more at the builder then the carpenter.
It's more robust then the Festool machines. But also a little heavy. The T18 is more refined and can also do small screws in wood.
But since you already own a C12 you can use an extra machine with a little more power: one for fine screwing and one for the heavier work.
Therefore the PDC18 is more versatile then the T18.
 
I have a Protool pdc 18-4 for almost 4 years now (got it a few weeks before the festool t+3 drills were introduced here) and I got a C12 when the li-ion model came out with the belt clip and the light (just before the cxs was introduced).

You can use all your centrotec bits in both drills, the green and orange centrotec chucks are excheangable aswell, as are the keyless chucks (which, if you have an older model C12 with the keyless chuck that doesn't lock the drills properly is very handy)
The right-angle chuck is not exchangeable, but the protool version is more heavy duty, and doesnt make the weird noise when in use. (but the festool right-angle chuck is easier for quick changing the direction it points in.)
You cannot use the offcentre chuck on the protool drill, but I can't figure an application with that chuck, that requires the additional power over the c12 you already have.
The depth-stop chuck is non exchangeable, but if you get the protool version instead of the festool version it can be used on both drills.

The other cordless drills with hammerfunction always bothered me in the past, because you rarely need that function, but it was always annoying when driving screws etc. because you had to push through it's travel. But on the protool this is not the case, when the hammerfunction is not in action, the chuck is locked in the front position (only less than 1 mm of travel remains).

The 4rth speed of the protool with up to 3800rpm is not a gimmick but actually usefull, it doesn't drain out the battery ridiculously quick and it really saves a lot of time when drilling small holes in steel (NOTE: I use the 4rth speed up to 7mm drills, but only with the cobalt drills I have, the centrotec hss bits don't work well at that speed, they become way too hot and actually cut better at slower speed)

Aside from the higher torque and speed there are other benefits of the protool over the t18:
It comes in a bigger systainer with storage in the lid, and room for a full set of drills underneath the charger, if you leave the bitholder in the centrotec-chuck it can still sit upright in it's position in the systainer inlay (for instance when you leave the keyless chuck on the drill)
The protool comes with an auxiliary handle with depthstoprod, the auxiliary handle is very helpfull when used with bigger holesaws.
The protool drills keep their looks better in jobsite conditions, the wellplaced pieces of rubber in contact areas with the surface when put down on it's side work so well that the protool currently looks "newer" than my c12, also, the plastic beltclips retract by themselves when you put the drill down.

Advantages (for you) of chosing the t18 over a protool drill: you can buy the cheaper version without any extra chucks, since you already have those.
The protool lacks the drill/drive selector which is handy sometimes when you dialed in the torquesetting just right and need to drill holes in between driving.

Less nice experiences I had with the protool drill:

 Something in the electronics broke in the second year and also broke a battery (OR a battery died and broke something in the electronics) the drill got fixed and battery replaced under warranty. (The problem was probably caused by overheating, I was working on top of a flat roof during a heatwave, I left the drill in it's systainer, because I knew li ion batteries don't like the heat from being directly in the sun(from experience with my makita impactdriver), but I think the black color of the systainer got the drill too hot anyway. (just speculation of mine))

 Not really usable in really freezing weather, allthough that got better over time. (It got a bit better the second winter, and the next one it worked almost as normal)

 Second battery died a few months out of the 3 year warranty. (funny fact, I got a new 3.0 Ah version to replace the broken 2.6Ah version, and the 3.0Ah version is actually lighter in weight (not much only 40 grams or so))

I also have the 14.4 brushless makita impactdriver, and the bosch I- driver, in case I can't reach with the right angle chucks, because there's no room for the drill-body itself.

 
Thanks again Neeleman, so you're basically confirming my thinking.  :)

Plus it is clear I have to wait for the new models then! So how many weeks is that? I have a deck job coming up that would be a nice warm up for the new drill.

Dank! Bob.
 
Thanks Frank-Jan, that is extremely helpful! It will be the Protool for sure then. Now I only have to figure out when the new models are coming exactly.

Thanks so much!

Frank-Jan said:
I have a Protool pdc 18-4 for almost 4 years now (got it a few weeks before the festool t+3 drills were introduced here) and I got a C12 when the li-ion model came out with the belt clip and the light (just before the cxs was introduced).

You can use all your centrotec bits in both drills, the green and orange centrotec chucks are excheangable aswell, as are the keyless chucks (which, if you have an older model C12 with the keyless chuck that doesn't lock the drills properly is very handy)
The right-angle chuck is not exchangeable, but the protool version is more heavy duty, and doesnt make the weird noise when in use. (but the festool right-angle chuck is easier for quick changing the direction it points in.)
You cannot use the offcentre chuck on the protool drill, but I can't figure an application with that chuck, that requires the additional power over the c12 you already have.
The depth-stop chuck is non exchangeable, but if you get the protool version instead of the festool version it can be used on both drills.

The other cordless drills with hammerfunction always bothered me in the past, because you rarely need that function, but it was always annoying when driving screws etc. because you had to push through it's travel. But on the protool this is not the case, when the hammerfunction is not in action, the chuck is locked in the front position (only less than 1 mm of travel remains).

The 4rth speed of the protool with up to 3800rpm is not a gimmick but actually usefull, it doesn't drain out the battery ridiculously quick and it really saves a lot of time when drilling small holes in steel (NOTE: I use the 4rth speed up to 7mm drills, but only with the cobalt drills I have, the centrotec hss bits don't work well at that speed, they become way too hot and actually cut better at slower speed)

Aside from the higher torque and speed there are other benefits of the protool over the t18:
It comes in a bigger systainer with storage in the lid, and room for a full set of drills underneath the charger, if you leave the bitholder in the centrotec-chuck it can still sit upright in it's position in the systainer inlay (for instance when you leave the keyless chuck on the drill)
The protool comes with an auxiliary handle with depthstoprod, the auxiliary handle is very helpfull when used with bigger holesaws.
The protool drills keep their looks better in jobsite conditions, the wellplaced pieces of rubber in contact areas with the surface when put down on it's side work so well that the protool currently looks "newer" than my c12, also, the plastic beltclips retract by themselves when you put the drill down.

Advantages (for you) of chosing the t18 over a protool drill: you can buy the cheaper version without any extra chucks, since you already have those.
The protool lacks the drill/drive selector which is handy sometimes when you dialed in the torquesetting just right and need to drill holes in between driving.

Less nice experiences I had with the protool drill:

 Something in the electronics broke in the second year and also broke a battery (OR a battery died and broke something in the electronics) the drill got fixed and battery replaced under warranty. (The problem was probably caused by overheating, I was working on top of a flat roof during a heatwave, I left the drill in it's systainer, because I knew li ion batteries don't like the heat from being directly in the sun(from experience with my makita impactdriver), but I think the black color of the systainer got the drill too hot anyway. (just speculation of mine))

 Not really usable in really freezing weather, allthough that got better over time. (It got a bit better the second winter, and the next one it worked almost as normal)

 Second battery died a few months out of the 3 year warranty. (funny fact, I got a new 3.0 Ah version to replace the broken 2.6Ah version, and the 3.0Ah version is actually lighter in weight (not much only 40 grams or so))

I also have the 14.4 brushless makita impactdriver, and the bosch I- driver, in case I can't reach with the right angle chucks, because there's no room for the drill-body itself.
Click to expand...
 
Bob, you're welcome. The protool drill was a tool I had quite a sticker shock over after the impulse buy, (especially since I also spent alot on centrotec stuff) but I'm still very happy every day that I got it.

If your dealers are trying to sell the older models first, before updating their inventory, you can just order the new model by partnumber, they're available now (I ordered the 3.0Ah battery just a few weeks ago, I was also waiting for the new models, and used a 10.8 V battery from my duradrive as a spare battery while waiting)

Link to Swiss protool site

/edit: I'm typing too slow, in both posts I ignored the red warning of other messages posted, so I didn't see Neeleman's post, but I would certainly check with your dealer if they can order by partnumber and get it sooner, I got my parallelguides that way before they were listed on the Dutch or Belgian festool site.
 
I too am waiting on the new PDC18-4 ... annoying as they're doing runout deals on the current/old model and it's so tempting to jump  [tongue]

 
Oh boy..... That's going to be a long wait.... I will try to get it sooner through the part number for sure but not holding my breath when Gerschwitz is being so specific with the release week.

What is common with Protool/Festool? Do they stick to those promises or might it well be a bit later? With my current planning week 32 is really pushing it. If their releases tend to get delayed I might feel tempted to get an older model for a nice price.

 
Thanks Neeleman, I've emailed them just now to see what's up. I still need to get them in Switzerland but at least then I'll know whether they are actually available right now. Or if they can ship to me without taxes that should work.

Thinking about getting the impact drill (without batteries) too and then try to sell my Makitas. For some reason I never grew to them, they are fine though so who knows I'll find someone for them around here.

Just to be sure I'm making the right move (lot of money...) I'll pass by Hilti this week and check out their models. That is the only brand I noticed that seems interesting. That 22V impact unit looks really nice, need to check the regular drill to make up my mind, it looks very outdated somehow. It is hard to find Hilti prices online though... They have the fleet pricing going full on now, irritating.  :( Never really understood that, in the end anyone buying more than one machine is going to ask for a discount so why the fuzz? But I suppose that's the point, I have to get to the store and deal with a sales guy who is going to be all over me explaining the benefits of their service and blahblahblah. Oh well...

Thanks everyone!! This has been really helpful! Take care, Bob.
 
I have prices of the Hilti Impact Drivers (includes 9% discount):
- Hilti SID 14-A (14,4-3,3) €469 ex. BTW
- Hilti SID 22-A (21,6-1,6) €419 ex. BTW
- Hilti SID 22-A (21,6-3,3) €509 ex. BTW

Every company can register with Hilti so you can see the prices on their website.

I also think the Hilti's are among the best machines.
They also have good service and warranties of batteries.
SID%2022-A_Prim_L047516.jpg
 
Yes, that impact looks very very nice! And the prices is on the same level then, sort of...

I like the design (short) and weight (lite) of the Hilti impact a lot better than the Protool impact which seems rather long and heavy at 2,3 kilos. Man!! I so do not like choices....
It seems I really need to hold these puppies and see for myself. I hope somebody has the Protool impact around here, never seen it once. Otherwise I might end up with a Hilti impact next to a Protool drill, seems a shame somehow, those extra batteries.

Neeleman, you have the Festool T18 and 15 Impact, are there moments where you miss some extra juice?

cheers, Bob.
 
Indeed I have 3 Festool drills until now:
- C12 Li for light screws
- T18 for normal screws and drilling holes
- TI 15 for heavy screws

I would opt for an extra (SDS) drill, especially for drilling holes in masonry or concrete.
I don't think the small battery drills are up to the task although Hilti and Bosch have some fine 22-36V battery drills, but they are so heavy compared to the normal AC drills.
The battery drills also cost a lot more.
I would opt for the Hilti TE 7 /TE 30 or the latest Protool PDP 20-4 (no SDS) or CHP 26 PLUS.

Difficult choices as you already mentioned!!!!!!!!?????
 
Sorry I can't help you Bob, but whatever you choose can you do us all a favour and report back on your choices and what you think of them. I myself do not know which I would choose the Protool or Festool. And with the TI 15 coming it throws more options into the mix. Good luck.

Neelemen: I'm curious how you like your TI15? Just in regards to the impact driver abilities? I have been reading on another thread that it is not nearly as powerful as a T15 for drilling but really the most important thing I would think is how it compares to other impact drivers. Thanks!
 
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