Table design opinions request (Finished)

[Crazyraceguy]

I have been messing around with his little project for my mom. These are always the hardest, the ones with virtually no direction, other than some very simple size constraints.
It needs to be 38" long, 11" wide, and 28" tall, have a second shelf about 4" below the top, and painted a dark gray. She has no design parameters, which make that part my problem....which is why I have been putting it off.  [unsure]
This is where I have it now. The top is correct size, with the legs having integral tenons penetrating the surface about 1/16". The legs are 1 1/2" square and about 1" over length at this point, and yet to be tapered. I have it drawn out starting 6" down and tapering to 3/4".
The lower shelf fits entirely within the legs, flush with the ends. This is there to support some kind of  box that works with her TV, but hopefully somewhat disappear.
The blocks are just spacers for clamping and will be removed.

One of the guys at work liked the proud tenons, the other didn't and would flush them up. They were the only ones to see it so far.
Opinions? thoughts?

 

[Packard]

Design advice is always most helpful prior to starting on the project.  [big grin]

How is this table to be used?  Will it be in an entryway?  Behind a couch?  Is is not likely to be in the middle of the room.  What room?  How is that room furnished? Modern?  Farmhouse?  California Contemporary?

I have become disillusioned with gray anything.  I think it will be the next “bell bottom pants” fashion statement.  (“Oh, you wore bell bottoms.  How cute”.  “Oh, you painted your furniture gray.  How 2020s.”)

Without more information, all I can add now is “I personally do not favor gray.”

With more information, and preferably with a photo of the room it is destined for, you will get better feedback.

The construction looks first class.  Under gray paint, only you will know.  (Mothers don’t pay much attention to construction details.)

I would mention that with the narrow dimensions and the only shelf being near the top, the entire table will be top-heavy and easily upended.  If it goes against a wall, I would consider anchoring it to keep it stable.

Some images (even when you search for “gray painted” they try to steer you away with items that are not gray): https://www.google.com/search?q=gray+painted+narrow+tables&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiOm-iBscaAAxWVJlkFHSy-C38Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=gray+painted+narrow+tables&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoHCAAQigUQQzoFCAAQgAQ6BggAEAcQHjoGCAAQCBAeOgYIABAFEB46BwgAEBgQgARQ5A5YoDlg_TtoAHAAeACAAbwJiAHoE5IBCDIxLjEuNy0xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=Z7TOZM7LBZXN5NoPrPyu-Ac&bih=767&biw=1205&client=firefox-b-1-m

 

[Formally Kevin Fester]

I like the tenons thru the top also. Perhaps dress the top of the tenons with a chamfer from the middle to each of the 4 sides . Maybe just a hairline above the top at the 4 sides with a soft point in the middle .

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Yeah, [member=74278]Packard[/member], I should have been more clear. This is going under a wall mounted TV, against a wall.
Functionally, it's really only there to raise that TV modem/device off of the floor, somewhat hiding it in the process, and keeping you from walking too close to the TV.
The main size considerations are to basically match another table I built for her 10 years ago. That first one was designed to go behind a sofa, under a window. That was the reason for the specific height. It was later repurposed into the new room. It was also all Maple, stained and lacquered, though no pic of it that way, just raw.
I'm sure it will get something on top, but that not the main goal.
This is a case of "she's going to like it no matter what", but it needs to reflect the hand-built aspects of not looking like something from a store.
Personally, I am not a fan of the no-apron thing. I feel like it would sag over time, but in this application, probably not. It's going in an 80 year old lady's sitting room, so it's as much art is anything. Thus my conundrum.
They gray is just her style. Other than the Maple table, all of the others I have made for her have been painted. The first one started out as white, but she painted over that herself after a few years.
The other 2 started gray, though different shades.

 

[bobtskutter]

I like the look of the through tenons, they remind me of through Dominos, which I think is one your trade marks?  Could you add some extra detail to the ends of the tenons, maybe a cross detail made with Dominos?
 
Regards
Bob

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I like the look of the through tenons, they remind me of through Dominos, which I think is one your trade marks?  Could you add some extra detail to the ends of the tenons, maybe a cross detail made with Dominos?
 
Regards
Bob

I don't know about trademark, but I have done it a few times. I especially like it for drawers. As far as doing something to the ends of the tenons, sure. I can do just about anything there. I made them with a Shaper Origin. My original intent was to chamfer them slightly, but adding something else could be a nice touch. Heck, they didn't even have to be square? but, I figured it was a bit of a waste to go too crazy with a painted project.

 

[bobtskutter]

I just re-read your original post.  I think you've suggested it's a TV stand, for a large flat panel screen I assume?  Will the screen sit on the table or is the screen mounted on the wall above the table?  If the screen sits on top of the table do the through tenons interfere with the screens legs / stand?

What sort of paint are you thinking of using?
Actual paint, e.g. gloss?
or some sort of wood dye?

I know that different types of grain behave differently to wood dye and take on different shades.  Maybe the end grain of the through tenons will give a nice contrast to the parallel (not sure if that's the right word) grain of the flat surface.

Regards
bob

 

[Scott in San Diego]

My opinions;

Flush tenons. Simple, clean designs don't require embellishment.

Taper legs to 1" instead of 3/4".  For example, the older maple table legs you pictured seem spindly to me and make the table look somewhat top-heavy.

I like gray stuff.

Nice work and thanks for all your contributions for our enjoyment.

 

[cider]

Agree with Scott.  Especially since it will be painted.  Can't wait to see what you come up with ;D

 

[mino]

Another opinion:

The whole thing seems a bit bland as it is, expect it to be even more so when stained, sooo:

- as the "shelf" is "burried" from the front, it would be more consistent to have it "burried" also from the sides, using some embedded bolts etc. to attach it to the legs so it appears as if "floating" between them
- keep the tenons proud, absolutely, but I would go even further and would not stain them, going for some good drying oil instead
- would stain everything else still, so the wooden tenons will "stick out" visually (if she does not like it, you can always stain them later ..)
- make the tenons and the top/shelf final finishing *before* the assembly of the whole thing, so they are not "stained in" but form an obvious attached component
- I would round the tenon tops the same (small) dia as their side edges and the shelf below, would even consider rounding the "hole" for the tennons from the top, accenting them being a separate piece
- (consider) giving the top sides and the shelf sides a slight "inside" curve at a big diameter so it is a bit narrower in the middle (say by 1/2") than at the front/back, that should give it a bit of a "flare" without over-doing it, or a variation thereof

Art is so much about emotion one cannot really "construct" it and so there is no "correct" way.

Last advice:
  Shoot for something "good, nice and with a feel to it" but avoid trying something "someone/her will surely like". A great piece may be loved or hated, and anything in between. But you can never make something people will love without giving it a feel, and a feel means you are always at a risk they may not like it. But no risk means not love. Just go by your feel, turning your professional mind off for a moment ..

/end musings

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=61254]mino[/member] I have actually considered pulling the shelf in at the ends, making a corner to corner attachment. The concern is strength. I could put a Domino-like tenon in there, maybe wider than the standard manufactured ones?
I did a somewhat similar thing on a kitchen table about 10 years ago. It was a stainless steel bracket and moved the shelf inward 3-4 inches, but it was a much "heavier" unit.
The only pic I have of that was the day we delivered it. There was a simple black melamine temporary top on it then. It later received a granite slab. The downward pointed design was from the customer and those panels are not false or decorative, they are actually functional drawers.

Strength is not a major factor, but I don't want to go too crazy.
The plan is to do the painting as a partial assembly. I assume that getting any kind of finish in a gap that narrow would be quite difficult. I intend to do the glue-up with the top in place, then remove it for the final finish/painting.
I have even considered a slight two-tone to it, with one or the other being slightly lighter. That way the tenons could be the other color.
The top and lower shelf are poplar, which can completely lose the appearance of the grain. The white oak can be left where is shows as a contrast too, to further enhance the difference.
I can, of course, reduce the amount of the taper, but the other one (Maple/apron) is in the same room.

Thank you all for your input.........continue, if you wish

 

[squall_line]

Painted, I could go either way with the tenons.  If you or your mother prefer them proud, I think it adds just enough interest to keep it from looking like a random piece of whatever from Target or Pier One.

Strength, consider what will happen to this 20-30 years down the road.  Will its next owner want to put a TV on it?  Will they want to just use it for knick-knacks as a sofa table?  I would keep aprons on it for long-term stability, since it's actual hard wood.

By the same token, if the tenons are proud, whoever gets it in the future can flush the tenons if if bugs them.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Having built a couple benches last year with flush through tenons, I can tell you that there is no such thing as "flush". Today? Maybe. 6 months from now either proud or short, another 6 months and the pendulum will have swung. Mind you, I'm talking about a difference that can be felt, but not actually seen, but I know it's there, and if painted, I would expect it to flex the paint. I believe this is one of the design considerations for all the proud through tenons in Craftsman furniture.

And...I agree with Scott. Tapering from 1-1/2" to 3/4" seems a bit too much. If you do it at 1" and do a dry assembly, you can always go back and increase the taper. Putting it back on is harder.  [crying]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Painted, I could go either way with the tenons.  If you or your mother prefer them proud, I think it adds just enough interest to keep it from looking like a random piece of whatever from Target or Pier One.

Strength, consider what will happen to this 20-30 years down the road.  Will its next owner want to put a TV on it?  Will they want to just use it for knick-knacks as a sofa table?  I would keep aprons on it for long-term stability, since it's actual hard wood.

By the same token, if the tenons are proud, whoever gets it in the future can flush the tenons if if bugs them.

Did you catch the part where she is 80?  [big grin] and I turned 60 2 weeks ago. I'm not even mildly concerned about it lasting 30 years. The next owner would theoretically be me and even though I'm not building it for me, I could/would use it someday.
The proud tenon idea was just that, to keep it from looking like some factory-made piece.
It's only 38" long....can you even but a TV that small nowadays? The lack of aprons is a specific design parameter, which kind of eliminates the potential for putting anything heavy on it.

[member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member] I think you are right, the taper might be a bit too much. I thin I will expand it to 1".

 

[squall_line]

It's only 38" long....can you even but a TV that small nowadays? The lack of aprons is a specific design parameter, which kind of eliminates the potential for putting anything heavy on it.

My old TV had spread legs that were out near the ends of the frame, my new one has a central stand base.  The TV before that also had a central stand base.  If someone wanted a TV that big, they'd probably just mount it on the wall, as is currently the case.  I'm tempted to just mount mine and stop waffling over how to design the console for it, which also needs to accommodate a center channel speaker.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Just for some perspective, absolutely not a design suggestion, I made this tv table in the style of something you might find fifty years ago in an upper middle class home in North Korea.

[attachimg=1]

Made for artist David Howe’s satirical sculpture installation Kim Jong Un’s Christmas
Also made the nutcracker soldiers.

 

[rvieceli]

Michael that is super. 

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] how are you planning to taper. I also think an inch would be better.

Are you going to taper all 4 sides? If you haven’t decided yet, consider tapering the insides surfaces and leave the outside 2 straight.

Ron

 

[LazyGretlWoodWorks]

Personally not a fan of through tenons in a table top, but that is otherwise a lovely piece. Nicely done.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Michael that is super. 

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] how are you planning to taper. I also think an inch would be better.

Are you going to taper all 4 sides? If you haven’t decided yet, consider tapering the insides surfaces and leave the outside 2 straight.

Ron

No, the plan is to just taper the insides. I think the legs would have to be quite a bit thicker to get by with tapering a 4 sides.

In fact, I did them this morning before work. I'm always there 1/2 hour or so before start time, so I used it for that today.

I also found some gray stain in the cabinet this afternoon. So, I think I'm going to stain and lacquer the legs and paint the top/shelf the charcoal color I bought the other day. If she doesn't like it, I can always paint over the stained part, though I doubt it will be a problem. Moms are like that.

 

[LazyGretlWoodWorks]

Yeah, there you go. Beautiful.