Table or track saw - if you can only have one - which one it is?

[RC]

I'm totally fed up with sawing everything that cannot be cut with my mitre saw with my jigsaw and handsaws so I've been looking into buying either a table or a track saw. If you can only have one which one would it be?
I'm trying to build a nicely workable amount of power tools into my livingroom/backyard "workshop" but am badly constrained by dry & warm storage space and somewhat by money (max. 800-1000€ for the saw).

My needs for portability are limited to carrying the gear from my living room out onto the terrace (6m) and back and in the winter time to the housing complex hobby room (30m) and  back (you can't leave anything expensive there unsupervised).

I must have all large sheet goods ripped to smaller dimensions at the wood store since they wouldn't fit my car and as a Honda Hybrid it can't pull a trailer. My projects for the next couple of years include mainly building back yard furniture (benches with storage boxes under the seats, dining table & chairs and some sort of a work table (got the UWB plans as one option) as well as I'm going to build some sort of a sysport like shelf system under the living room stairs to optimize my tool storage space.

I don't believe that the TS+CMS-base combination is convenient and exact enough after my dismal experiences with Wolfcraft MasterCut 1000 "universal" circular saw table adaption that is impossible to get squared to the fence and I don't feel like going on my knees to adjust the height or tilt of a table saw, nor is it my price range at 1200€+ since you can't find those used anywhere.

So I guess the question is can a track saw achieve the same things you can do with a table saw only on a track and a MFT/UWB-like workbench and what are plusses and minuses of each approach? Since I haven't used a table saw since middle school (and then they were the industrial ones) I'm a bit out of what all can be done on it so I would appreciate it if you can point out things that are impossible to with one or the other type of saw.

I've been looking at options of either getting a TS55 Set or Mafell tracksaw or a used Festool CS70 or one of the new Bosch/Makita "portable" table saws.

 

[zapdafish]

I would take a tablesaw. But I am taking my needs into consideration, not yours  ;D

I drive a honda civic coupe so always have sheet goods cut down when I buy it in order to get it home. On the few occasions when I need something larger I borrow my parents van.

I am starting to use more lumber than sheet goods as well which is why I choose tablesaw. I don't have an mft or parralel guides so having those accessories may make a difference

 

[Sparktrician]

I would suggest that if space and dust mitigation are criteria, the track saw is THE way to go.  It stores very compactly and couldn't be easier to move around.  Saw horses fold up to minimal sizes, and when used with a sacrificial sheet of rigid foam insulation, can support ripping and cross-cutting, which when terminally damaged, can be cheaply replaced.  I have a table saw, and continue to use it for certain cuts, but the TS55 track saw is my go-to choice more and more.  That's based on my current needs and space constraints.  The MFT/3s and parallel guides are icing on the cake for me.  YMMV... 

[smile]

 

[AlexThePalex]

A tablesaw. There aren't any things you can do with one but not the other, the real question is through how many hoops are you prepared to do so. For smaller cuts the tablesaw is a lot more convenient. Since you have your sheet material cut at the store, you'll be mainly doing the small cuts yourself.

But if your budget is up to €1200, I don't see why you couldn't get both. Unless you only want to consider brand new Festools or Mafells. I don't know how the used market is in Finland, but here in Holland you could find a used CS70 for €600-700 and a used TS55 with rail for 250-300. And that price would go further down when you're willing to consider non-Festool options.

Btw, never compare a Wolfcraft to a Festool, that's just so wrong on so many levels ....... 

 

[andvari]

I'm totally fed up with sawing everything that cannot be cut with my mitre saw with my jigsaw and handsaws so I've been looking into buying either a table or a track saw. If you can only have one which one would it be?
I'm trying to build a nicely workable amount of power tools into my livingroom/backyard "workshop" but am badly constrained by dry & warm storage space and somewhat by money (max. 800-1000€ for the saw).

I think Alex has it right. For 1000€ you should be able to do both a track saw and a small table saw, and that would give you a great setup.

 

[RC]

Unfortunately the used Festool gear market is rubbish in Finland - you either get totally beaten up tools that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole @ 70-80% of new price (i.e. more expensive than mail-ordering new gear from Germany) or then you get one gem a year or two of an occational bankrupcy, retirement, etc. like the twice used bankruptcy CS70 today that's auction I lost @ 800€ (the seller just cut the bidding short after the first bid was laid down hours before the stated ending time of the auction... guess who would have been the 2nd bidder [doh]) I've seen two other beaten up specimens of CS70 E & EB within the last year or so to sell for about 900€ here. Mostly our hardware stores sell mainstream makes like Bosch, Makita and Dewalt and you need to find one of the two or three Festool stores in the country that actually even sell to non-company affiliated people.

Also the new prices for Festool tools are ridiculous here (though with postage from Germany some extra parts are actually cheaper sourced locally like the FS1400/2 LR-32 rail for my router was 112€ locally and 120€ from Gerscwitch with postage, but then the LR32-Set was 452€!) but like the list price for a CS70 EB non-set is 2027€ here new and a FS55-CMS-Set will set you back 1417€ and a FS55-Set only a good 616€ new and the importer keeps a stranglehold on resellers to not differ from suggested retail price for normal non-company affiliated people  [sad]

I've looked on eBay Germany and drooled over the used TS's there, but very few sellers are prepared to send anything outside of Germany.  

If I only could reasonably afford one I'd love to have a CS70-Set like Alex got by luck, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon since the importer doesn't even list the Set-version in their catalogue, so don't know if you can even buy one here. And yes, 1200€ is beyond my hobby spending budget for this year because i've got a CT-vac on the shopping list too (and no there are no packages with a TS-saw in Finland that I know of).

And as a side note I do prioritise ease of use and the tools cut quality over portability since when I set up my garden terrace workshop I set it up in the morning and work till dusk and pack everything away for the night & clean the terrace at the end of the day (or when ever it decides to rain). Dust collection is important to me since I've inhaled my fair share of concrete dust during the renovations of this house a few years back, but since I work outside under the clear blue sky I can get away with a normal portable shop vac connected to my tools even non-Festool ones - winter time is different since we have a metre of snow in the yard at the moment so then I need descent dust collection in the hobby shop of our housing complex, but I rarely work on large projects in the winter anyway.

 

[GreenGA]

I have both; table saw and track saw.  If I were contrained by either money or space, I would lean towards the track saw.

While the table saw is very convenient and options abound to make it even easier to use (think Incra TS-LS), just about everything that you can do on the table saw, can also be accomplished using the track saw and advanced planing.  It just takes longer.

 

[semenza]

The answer to your  topic question is that it will depend on the situation of the user.

I assume that since you are considering a table saw that you have space for one including infeed / outfeed.  Is the working space for the table saw only outside?  Do you have space inside the hobby room to operate a track saw?  If the table saw will only be used outside, and there is room to use the track saw inside, I think the track saw will extend your work time.  The track saw can truly be used inside the house with very little clean up.

  As you have clearly stated you are only considering one or the other due to space and money issues.  The track saw will  need less space when stored. The vac , cutting table, and other track saw accessories work with many other tools,  so they can't really be counted as part of the storage space for the track saw. 

Another consideration.... if you go with a Festool track saw, then you would already have the saw  to put in a Festool CMS (?) or other stationary set up, in the future when funds allow.

Seth

 

[waho6o9]

In your situation Reiska I would use a Track saw. Here's why, your supplier will rip your sheet goods to fit in your car.
Therefore, all you have to do is crosscut. So I would get the track saw. If and when you need to rip stock, or sheet goods, the track saw will do that.  And it's safer to crosscut with a track saw than on the table saw.
Good luck Reiska on your choice.  [smile]

 

[CDM]

I use a TS 55 and MFT/3 in my living room most of the year.  The TS 55 is out of sight in a closet when not in use, and the plug-it cord is separately secured, since I have kids in the house.  When the weather is nice I work just outside on a deck.  There I don't get all-day work windows and I do bring them inside if I have to leave for any great length of time.  Either way the dust control is excellent and safety is too.  I could get a contractor table saw for a lower or comparable price, but I would have to store it in view somehow and it wouldn't have full health and safety features that I want without jumping up a lot in cost.

One possibility you might try is finding a local hobbyist, woodworking group, or shop with better space and tools than you have.  You might be able to use tools you don't have for rent, for free, or as a service trade (table-saw access for steam-bending help, for instance).

 

[davee]

My build list looks much like yours - various furniture, cabinets, etc.  I have both a table saw and the Festool track saw.  I am just starting a month between shops and had to pick only one in a very limited space.  I selected the track saw and MFT.  I did so because of versatility, safety and dust control.  I will be glad to get my table saw back, but as backup not primary.

 

[Kev]

I have a KAPEX, TS55, CARVEX and MFT/3. (I'm only talking about Festools, I have various other brand tools for sawing, but I'm changing over)

I'll get a table saw soon, but I purchased in the above sequence based on my theory of what I'll need the most in the near future.

Kev

 

[NoBreyner]

I have yet to use my tablesaw again since getting the MFT/3 TS 55 combo two weeks ago.  Maybe I'm just plain tired of using my CT Mini/Dust Deputy combo as a floor sweep rather than catching it at the source.

 

[jtwood]

The reason that I got into Festool was the TS75, hoping it would replace an aging table saw.  It didn't, because of what I use it for.  I am a retired guy whose hobby is building furniture in my garage.  The TS is great for ripping sheet goods and making cross cuts on smaller pieces, but it won't do everything I need to do for furniture when cutting pieces to size, doing dadoes and a few other things.  The precision for making repeated cuts for multiple identical parts is easier, for me, on a table saw, too.

CAN you get by with a TS, a miter saw and a circular saw, etc.?  Yes, but it depends on how important your time is to you and how important things like fine furniture are to you.  The table saw makes a lot of things easier and faster for me.

By the way, I still ended up with 4 Festool sanders, a couple of Festood drills, a Festool router, MFT, parallel guides for the saw, etc., so I am not anti-Festool in any way

 

[RC]

SRSemenza: The hobby rooms is large enough (an old oil tank room for the housing complex boiler, about 8m x 3m)  for a track saw as well as a table saw if it has detachable in-feed/out-feed tables to get it through the door (3' wide). The worst part of the hobby room are the two "work tables" i.e. old solid core doors on saw horses. I'm seriously thinking of finding some cheap ply from somewhere and building a couple of downsized UWB's there and donate them to the housing complex to get better clamping there myself.

My significant other won't allow me to work in the house with any power tools unless it involves drilling a hook into the wall nor am I allowed to run power tools while the kids are playing outside. 

Can one work on lumber like 2x4's & 2x8's and planks like ½"x3" and cutting joints with a track saw - doesn't it get a bit unstable if the track is balanced across the end of a 2x4 to cut the tennons? I guess you could work around that with various jigs and sacrificial pieces & clamping to an MFT-top, but jigs take space as well to store. This sort of stuff would logically be trivial on a table saw with the height adjustment and sliding table.

I seem to be getting a mild track saw favourable response from you all, though many of you do state that in the long run both would be better (logical, but impractical since I don't have heated dry storage for a whole lot of gear). I do very little cabinet sort of building at the moment - if I ever get good enough at finishing I might attempt building book shelves into the library at a later date, but for now I'll just buy the inside furniture instead.

If I was to go down the table saw route it would need to be a modular and carriable system that can function on it's basic set-up outside maybe even attach it to my Bosch mitre-saw bench if the bottom attachment holes would line up with the Bosch quick clamps for the GTA3800 that I have or have it's own legs. When it or the track saw's systainer are stored they are stashed under the stairs inside the house in a triangular space of about 1700mm x 1120mm x 940mm (l x h x d) on slide-out shelves or roller boards since I'm done with breaking my back lifting the mitre saw out from under there or a even worse location under the stair platform next to it that's 1120mm high as well but a larger square cubby (I always bang my head on the ceiling there) [crying].

We have a city funded woodworking shop at a school a good 20min drive away with teachers present and all. You can rent time for about 15€/h and get to use the schools big machinery, but that adds up surprisingly fast and you can't store projects there for extended periods of time. I've been considering going there to take some classes on finer woodworking skills once I have time to relax and indulge myself in stuff I personally want to do vs. what need to be done to get a functioning back yard.

I guess I'm haunted by my grandad who was a carpenter and an electrician and used to always tell me as a kid when we used to build stuff together that you can save in everything else in life but never save on your tools. I guess that's the main reason I took the green pill last summer when I bought my OF1400 and going down that slippery slope... [embarassed]

 

[rookie08]

Hi Reiska,

I used to have a table saw but it took up too much room in my garage and to try to get it moved down the stairs down to my basement shop...(let's just say my wife was checking to see if our health and life insurance was up to date).

I've been extremely happy with the TS55 set up.  Not only is it super accurate, glue ready cuts, but it takes up such little room I can take it anywhere I need to if the situation arises.  Upstairs, downstairs, on site, to my mother in laws;  [blink]

There are lots of threads on here re building your own work bench (Ron Paul's comes to mind).  With the extra money you could purchase an Incra LS positioner or Incra tracks.  Sure beats carrying a quality (read heavy!) table saw in and out of your storage space , IMHO.

Just my [2cents]/markka/euro  [big grin]

Cheers

James

 

[Mac]

TS 55 and large bandsaw (still takes up very little space in the workshop) cover everything I've ever needed to do.  My  [2cents].

Cheers,
Rick

 

[RC]

Thanks Mac, a bandsaw as well as a planer/thicknesser would be lovely bits of equipments, but since they have to be carriable by myself alone and packed away in the evening they are just way too heavy and bulky equipment to have.  [sad]

P.S. sorry all if my responses are a bit long and not so logically progressing - I'm currently "enjoying" a good spell of influenza A with a healthy 39C temperature so keeping my thoughts totally logical is a bit tough at times...  [embarassed]

 

[semenza]

When you are cutting things that are narrow or potentially unstable for the guide rail you need to set up like thickness material to support the rail.  Tasks like cutting tenons are better suited to a table saw, but can be done with a track saw. Some of this decision really depends on what you will be building, the joining methods used, and what other tools you have.  I don't cut tenons in the traditional way for joining. I use the Domino or other methods. So I don't need the table saw for that purpose. If I did need to make a traditional tenon, I could certainly make it happen with a track saw, Kapex, and router table at my disposal.

Seth

 

[RC]

To illustrate my "workshop" this is a picture of it when I built it last summer:

[attachthumb=#]