Table saw - CSC50 or TKS80

[ElectricFeet]

Some excellent responses, thanks for the advice.

Thanks for the info and pictures, really useful.

I'm disappointed to hear it was so difficult to cut strips with the saw, do you think the Festool table would have helped?

It really does seem like with the restricted capacity, but also the new table this table saw is a floor fitter dream and maybe for small pieces / assembly, but even then its limited.

This maybe me being cynical, but has anyone watched the first two of Peter Millard videos on the CSC50 where he isn't too impressed and then the third one where he says it is great?.

People like Peter Millard and Peter Parfitt are extremely influential for the UK markets and their opinion could either make festool 100's of thousands over the years or the opposite, so for Festool to offer them an 'incentive' would surely be worth their while.

But I am just being cynical here and maybe thinking out loud, as this probably isn't the case.

I should have been much more specific. Clearer would be: “I had some difficulty cutting 8.3mm strips from bendy plastic without outfeed support”. However, the results are pretty spectacular. I cut them one way and then the other, to get a square cross section. Along the lengths they vary (at various points) from 8.27mm to 8.32mm. That is, a tolerance of +/- 0.03mm (1 thousandth of an inch). I wasn’t expecting that level of precision and accuracy — especially as I was wrestling against kickback because of the bendiness of the plastic. Oh and did I mention that it was UHMW, so it was somewhat slidey ;D

I had an absolute blast getting that level of accuracy from a saw.

The festool table would absolutely have helped, yes, but it’s not an option for me. I’ll be adding some supporting arms to a trolley I already have — “soon”.

Peter Millard’s first video: Yes, I was very disappointed with it, as he grouched (sorry Peter!) about the bad and didn’t mention the good. Or perhaps took for granted that everyone already knew about the good. I think he probably got some push back on it from others who have the saw and did the second video to add more balance. I remember thinking that it was a very unfair review. But in the same way that a Michelin chef will get criticism because the temperature of the coulis was a few degrees too high, Festool will get criticism for some things that would be absolutely ignored from any other manufacturer. We expect them to be perfect and only mention the points we deducted, and not how they got all the points in the first place.

Peter has stated that he bought the saw himself and consumer law is pretty strong in the UK (and EU) so he would have to state if he was getting any money (or favours) for saying what he says (as Peter Parfitt always does). So I’m pretty sure that both reviews were unbiased.

Having said all that, he was absolutely right that setting the fence could have been made more precise. I’ve just ordered one of these:
[attachimg=1]
and will make a jig “soon” for setting the fence more accurately. The fence is rock solid, however, so real credit to Festool for that.

If we want to criticise the temperature of the coulis, other criticism that I have is:

- The (unnecessarily?) complex throat plate. I’m very lucky to have a Shaper Origin with a Shaper Plate Trace pre-ordered for October, so I might have a go at making a zero clearance plate. But for most people, it’s a bit of a failing that this can’t be done easily. i hope that someone out there with a 3D printer will start selling them.

- That the sliding table is the main option and they didn’t add another slot in the popup table for using sleds and stuff. But then, that’s not really their target market. Someone taking this to a jobsite to do flooring isn’t going to be lugging a sled with them. But for people who are short on space like me (and Peter Millard), it would have been nice.

On this latter point, some of the strips I made were for the main slot in the sliding table, so at some point — “soon” —I’ll build some sleds / jigs and report back.

Despite the criticism, it is an absolutely fantastic saw (and it’s my third small saw, as I’ve been searching for this level of accuracy / precision / usability for years.)

Best fun I’ve had using a saw in years.

 

[Boski]

Some excellent responses, thanks for the advice.

Thanks for the info and pictures, really useful.

I'm disappointed to hear it was so difficult to cut strips with the saw, do you think the Festool table would have helped?

It really does seem like with the restricted capacity, but also the new table this table saw is a floor fitter dream and maybe for small pieces / assembly, but even then its limited.

This maybe me being cynical, but has anyone watched the first two of Peter Millard videos on the CSC50 where he isn't too impressed and then the third one where he says it is great?.

People like Peter Millard and Peter Parfitt are extremely influential for the UK markets and their opinion could either make festool 100's of thousands over the years or the opposite, so for Festool to offer them an 'incentive' would surely be worth their while.

But I am just being cynical here and maybe thinking out loud, as this probably isn't the case.

I should have been much more specific. Clearer would be: “I had some difficulty cutting 8.3mm strips from bendy plastic without outfeed support”. However, the results are pretty spectacular. I cut them one way and then the other, to get a square cross section. Along the lengths they vary (at various points) from 8.27mm to 8.32mm. That is, a tolerance of +/- 0.03mm (1 thousandth of an inch). I wasn’t expecting that level of precision and accuracy — especially as I was wrestling against kickback because of the bendiness of the plastic. Oh and did I mention that it was UHMW, so it was somewhat slidey ;D

I had an absolute blast getting that level of accuracy from a saw.

The festool table would absolutely have helped, yes, but it’s not an option for me. I’ll be adding some supporting arms to a trolley I already have — “soon”.

Peter Millard’s first video: Yes, I was very disappointed with it, as he grouched (sorry Peter!) about the bad and didn’t mention the good. Or perhaps took for granted that everyone already knew about the good. I think he probably got some push back on it from others who have the saw and did the second video to add more balance. I remember thinking that it was a very unfair review. But in the same way that a Michelin chef will get criticism because the temperature of the coulis was a few degrees too high, Festool will get criticism for some things that would be absolutely ignored from any other manufacturer. We expect them to be perfect and only mention the points we deducted, and not how they got all the points in the first place.

Peter has stated that he bought the saw himself and consumer law is pretty strong in the UK (and EU) so he would have to state if he was getting any money (or favours) for saying what he says (as Peter Parfitt always does). So I’m pretty sure that both reviews were unbiased.

Having said all that, he was absolutely right that setting the fence could have been made more precise. I’ve just ordered one of these:
[attachimg=1]
and will make a jig “soon” for setting the fence more accurately. The fence is rock solid, however, so real credit to Festool for that.

If we want to criticise the temperature of the coulis, other criticism that I have is:

- The (unnecessarily?) complex throat plate. I’m very lucky to have a Shaper Origin with a Shaper Plate Trace pre-ordered for October, so I might have a go at making a zero clearance plate. But for most people, it’s a bit of a failing that this can’t be done easily. i hope that someone out there with a 3D printer will start selling them.

- That the sliding table is the main option and they didn’t add another slot in the popup table for using sleds and stuff. But then, that’s not really their target market. Someone taking this to a jobsite to do flooring isn’t going to be lugging a sled with them. But for people who are short on space like me (and Peter Millard), it would have been nice.

On this latter point, some of the strips I made were for the main slot in the sliding table, so at some point — “soon” —I’ll build some sleds / jigs and report back.

Despite the criticism, it is an absolutely fantastic saw (and it’s my third small saw, as I’ve been searching for this level of accuracy / precision / usability for years.)

Best fun I’ve had using a saw in years.

Amazing - Thanks for the detailed response and clarification.

Yes, that really is a brilliant tolerance, so seems super accurate.

You have a Shaper, I'm super jealous lol, how is it? I have my 40th coming up next year, maybe I'll take a look at it then.

Also, please post up if you make a jig for setting the fence, I'll probably try and copy it.

I think I have made my mind up, will go for it along with the table  8)

I'll need to but that piece you have to prevent the kick back and see if I can track down a version in the UK.

I'm making some draws this week for a wardrobe, hopefully i can get the CSC50 in time as will be super helpful.

Thanks again and to the others who have offered advice.

 

[bobtskutter]

Having said all that, he was absolutely right that setting the fence could have been made more precise. I’ve just ordered one of these:
[attachimg=1]

what is that?  Doesn't look any caliper I've ever seen.

Thanks
Bob

 

[ElectricFeet]

You have a Shaper, I'm super jealous lol, how is it? I have my 40th coming up next year, maybe I'll take a look at it then.

…

Also, please post up if you make a jig for setting the fence, I'll probably try and copy it.

…

I'll need to but that piece you have to prevent the kick back and see if I can track down a version in the UK.

…

Shaper: brilliant; great fun.

Jig: will do.

Anti-kickback: It’s a the Bow featherboard fp5 (portable saw version) which dunk showed in his post. It’s absolutely brilliant for rip cuts on this saw — clamps into the clamping slot on the sliding table and it is just the right size. Woodworkers Workshop stock them in the UK.

 

[ElectricFeet]

Having said all that, he was absolutely right that setting the fence could have been made more precise. I’ve just ordered one of these:
[attachimg=1]

what is that?  Doesn't look any caliper I've ever seen.

Thanks
Bob

It’s called a Digital Depth Gauge. You can find the ones used for woodworking / metalworking if you filter out the tyre-tread depth gauges.

It was only after ordering one that I found out that you can also buy these attachments to fit onto the end of an ordinary caliper:
[attachimg=1]

However, I think prefer to have a separate tool anyway. When I’m doing precise cutting, I need my ordinary caliper for measuring the results and I won’t want to have to take it in and out of a jig and remove the attachment each time — potentially wrecking any repeatability. Plus, a clincher, the attachment piece designed to fit specifically on my caliper costs as much as a brand new good-quality digital depth gauge.

I’ve ordered a 200mm depth gauge for manageability. It will cover most scenarios and I can move the fence out further with a setup block, if I really need that level of accuracy (generally, once I get beyond about 100mm, a tape measure is plenty good enough).

It has a zero-reset feature, which is nice as I’m imagining maybe using the jig for waste-side cuts too. Need to get my hands on it before designing anything.